Jiyva and Torment


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

User avatar

Halls Hopper

Posts: 66

Joined: Thursday, 20th March 2014, 13:09

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 07:48

Jiyva and Torment

"Hits that take 25% or more of your maximum HP will generate friendly, high-end jellies, similar to the effect of the royal jelly. Symbol of Torment doesn't count. (Passive)"

I just wanted to ask/talk about the specific interaction between Jyva's protector jellies and torment. Why is this the way it is?

Clarity - Every other attack that deals that kind of damage will summon jellies, why not this one?

Game Play - How would Jyva followers trivialize or abuse torment by spawning jellies from it's damage?

Lore: Jyva spawns jellies for TRJ when it is hit with torment, why not you?

For this message the author braveplatypus has received thanks: 6
chequers, duvessa, nago, sanka, sdynet, Sorcerous

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1131

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 09:50

Re: Jiyva and Torment

braveplatypus wrote:Game Play - How would Jyva followers trivialize or abuse torment by spawning jellies from it's damage?


They would be able to read scroll of torment in a good position to get powerful ally for half hp, while damaging their enemies as well. If you are in a good position then the enemies won't be able to attack you immediately and the jellies will kill it.

I am not convinced that it worths to keep this special case just to prevent this usage of the very rare scroll of torment.
User avatar

Snake Sneak

Posts: 111

Joined: Saturday, 10th March 2018, 18:00

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 22:09

Re: Jiyva and Torment

Considering in many other cases outside of being undead a scroll of torment is nothing more than a particularly flashy form of suicide, I don't see why we can't let TRJ followers get a little added bonus from it.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 377

Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 06:56

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 22:53

Re: Jiyva and Torment

I would argue that if you're taking >25% max HP from conventional sources, you're probably in a LOT more danger than if you're taking that damage from torment. Neither situation is good, but torment is unable to kill you directly, and it's also fairly likely the tormenting monster is near the edge of your LOS, meaning you can probably escape.

However, this exception for Jiyva followers appears to be quite old, and furthermore looks like it dates from a time when TRJ actually didn't expel jellies from torment. A later commit indicates that the developers themselves weren't quite sure what the intended behavior was here, but they opted to make torment never generate jellies.

Basically, this looks like a case of "it's (sort of) been this way for around a decade, and no one quite knows why". But as I say, there is a potential gameplay justification for it (torment is generally less dangerous than "standard" attacks doing >25% max HP damage).
User avatar

Zot Zealot

Posts: 982

Joined: Monday, 29th September 2014, 09:04

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 23:09

Re: Jiyva and Torment

I submitted a PR for this: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1088

For this message the author chequers has received thanks: 3
Airwolf, braveplatypus, duvessa

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.