Jiyva and Torment

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Halls Hopper

Posts: 66

Joined: Thursday, 20th March 2014, 13:09

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 07:48

Jiyva and Torment

"Hits that take 25% or more of your maximum HP will generate friendly, high-end jellies, similar to the effect of the royal jelly. Symbol of Torment doesn't count. (Passive)"

I just wanted to ask/talk about the specific interaction between Jyva's protector jellies and torment. Why is this the way it is?

Clarity - Every other attack that deals that kind of damage will summon jellies, why not this one?

Game Play - How would Jyva followers trivialize or abuse torment by spawning jellies from it's damage?

Lore: Jyva spawns jellies for TRJ when it is hit with torment, why not you?

For this message the author braveplatypus has received thanks: 6
chequers, duvessa, nago, sanka, sdynet, Sorcerous

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1032

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 09:50

Re: Jiyva and Torment

braveplatypus wrote:Game Play - How would Jyva followers trivialize or abuse torment by spawning jellies from it's damage?

They would be able to read scroll of torment in a good position to get powerful ally for half hp, while damaging their enemies as well. If you are in a good position then the enemies won't be able to attack you immediately and the jellies will kill it.

I am not convinced that it worths to keep this special case just to prevent this usage of the very rare scroll of torment.
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Snake Sneak

Posts: 111

Joined: Saturday, 10th March 2018, 18:00

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 22:09

Re: Jiyva and Torment

Considering in many other cases outside of being undead a scroll of torment is nothing more than a particularly flashy form of suicide, I don't see why we can't let TRJ followers get a little added bonus from it.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 370

Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 06:56

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 22:53

Re: Jiyva and Torment

I would argue that if you're taking >25% max HP from conventional sources, you're probably in a LOT more danger than if you're taking that damage from torment. Neither situation is good, but torment is unable to kill you directly, and it's also fairly likely the tormenting monster is near the edge of your LOS, meaning you can probably escape.

However, this exception for Jiyva followers appears to be quite old, and furthermore looks like it dates from a time when TRJ actually didn't expel jellies from torment. A later commit indicates that the developers themselves weren't quite sure what the intended behavior was here, but they opted to make torment never generate jellies.

Basically, this looks like a case of "it's (sort of) been this way for around a decade, and no one quite knows why". But as I say, there is a potential gameplay justification for it (torment is generally less dangerous than "standard" attacks doing >25% max HP damage).
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Zot Zealot

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Joined: Monday, 29th September 2014, 09:04

Post Monday, 17th June 2019, 23:09

Re: Jiyva and Torment

I submitted a PR for this: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1088

For this message the author chequers has received thanks: 3
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