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Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Sunday, 7th April 2019, 14:31
by HawkI
I have had many of my runs ended after I explored the Elven hauls. It appears to the player soo early game. It is such an arbitrary difficulty curve in most of my runs. I really do wonder if it would be better off in a floor of the Depths to be honest.

PS
I have only beaten this game once as Vine Stalker after playing for 500 hours.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Sunday, 7th April 2019, 17:03
by petercordia
You don't have to explore everything when you find it :)
I like having Elves available after Orcs. Sometimes a character is stuck in all the rune branches and D, and the best path forward is to do Elves. Part of the game is learning when to switch branch.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Sunday, 7th April 2019, 17:18
by Shtopit
After all, you have Jelly in Lair, and Hell in Depths. Elf is somehow deceiving in that it is doable, but very dangerous around lvl 15-16. Leaving it for later is an important thing to learn. A signal is the kind of timed portals that appear in it. IIRC, it's something like Salt and Wizlab, so stuff you would find in Vaults.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Sunday, 7th April 2019, 23:31
by phloomp
Yeah but slime shouldn't be at the bottom of lair either. Elf and Slime should be on D15.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Monday, 8th April 2019, 01:25
by Hellmonk
If you want to put branches in the technically optimal order, sbranches need to be below orc, slime needs to be in depths somewhere, elf needs to be in vaults or later, and orc needs to always show up after lair. You could also put conditional warnings on the branches; "really enter elf with no runes," "really enter slime before 2 runes," etc, if you want a soft prohibition on incorrect branch order.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Monday, 8th April 2019, 07:32
by Sprucery
Hellmonk wrote:and orc needs to always show up after lair

Not for venom mages imo.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Monday, 8th April 2019, 13:31
by HawkI
The difference and confusing thing about the Elven haul is that, when you press } to see the rune list, it doesn't show up. This makes the player feel it is safe to enter. I love the conditional warnings on the branches idea.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Tuesday, 9th April 2019, 15:37
by nago
Sprucery wrote:
Hellmonk wrote:and orc needs to always show up after lair

Not for venom mages imo.


O:1 can still spawn stone giant or ogre magi or even a warlord with a crossbow who are quite deadly for a squishy mage.
Or just the risk of sorceror paralysis or of a warg.
I wouldn't try it early on even with a VM.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Tuesday, 9th April 2019, 18:17
by petercordia
I would. Methic Cloud is super strong in Orc. If there's something strong you can always run away and come back later. (so long as you have enough hp not to be 1-shot.)

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Tuesday, 9th April 2019, 18:48
by svendre
petercordia wrote:I would. Methic Cloud is super strong in Orc. If there's something strong you can always run away and come back later. (so long as you have enough hp not to be 1-shot.)


It's pretty dangerous to run away and come back in orc that has sorcerers. I've had many a promising character die to paralysis from being overconfident in orc. That being said, lair can be dangerous as well, mostly due to hydras and giant packs of bees, blink frogs, etc.

I choose to do orc or lair first based on my character and gear, I don't think there is a hard and fast which one is easier. You want rPois and more AC for lair, you want more resists and MR for orc. Poison weapons and spells help greatly in orc, they don't as much in lair. Freezing and flame are good in lair... etc. etc.

Re: Eleven Hauls too early?

PostPosted: Tuesday, 9th April 2019, 23:09
by Sprucery
nago wrote:O:1 can still spawn stone giant or ogre magi or even a warlord with a crossbow who are quite deadly for a squishy mage.
Or just the risk of sorceror paralysis or of a warg.
I wouldn't try it early on even with a VM.

It's still better than Lair which will definitely spawn spiny frogs and black mambas. Yes, you'll have to be careful but mephitic cloud will solve most problems for you. I always go to Orc first (after D:11) as a VM.