Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 651

Joined: Wednesday, 19th June 2013, 09:31

Post Tuesday, 22nd January 2019, 13:25

Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Hi Guys,

Just wondering what everyone thinks of Sublimation of blood, as it stands now?

I've used it for the first time in a long time this game. My experience of it so far (and I've used it only 89 times...not a lot, but enough to get a feel for it...)

1.Cast it... Nothing really happens (I use 2 MP, gain 3 or so, and lose 2-3 HP)
2.Repeat step 1
3.Repeat step 1
4.Repeat step 1
5.Cast it.... MP Gets filled to the top and I lose 50% HP

Its a good time saving spell to regain MP between battles, but i'd never really cast it in battle because it has too much of a chance of just completely wasitng a turn, or taking too much HP and putting me in a dangerous position.

I personally would like to see it somehow weighted a little more to the middle of its possible MP restoration abilties. Very rarely do I gain what I want out of it (Which would ideally be to gain about 10MP or so)

How does everyone else feel about it?

  Code:
e - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None


  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22.1-6-g1668fe2 (webtiles) character file.

delarado the Scorcher (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist) Turns: 42773, Time: 03:59:49

Health: 97/97      AC: 10    Str:  5    XL:     16   Next: 38%
Magic:  32/32      EV: 23    Int: 30    God:    Vehumet [*****.]
Gold:   823        SH:  8    Dex: 18    Spells: 3/35 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   R - staff of energy
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   D - +3 buckler
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   A - +2 robe {MR+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   q - +2 helmet
rElec    .         Reflect  .   i - +2 cloak {rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   (no gloves)
MR       ++...                  (no boots)
Stlth    ++........             z - amulet of the acrobat
HPRegen  0.26/turn              k - +2 ring of intelligence
MPRegen  0.23/turn              S - +3 ring of dexterity

@: no status effects
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 15 of the Dungeon.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 24 of its levels.
You have also visited: Volcano.

You have collected 2462 gold pieces.
You have spent 1639 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 p - a +7 blowgun
 C - a +0 falchion of slicing
Missiles
 g - 494 stones
 h - 45 poisoned needles
 y - 6 poisoned tomahawks (quivered)
 L - 2 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 i - a +2 cloak of fire resistance (worn)
 q - a +2 helmet (worn)
 A - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
 D - a +3 buckler (worn)
Magical Staves
 a - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 R - an uncursed staff of energy (weapon)
Jewellery
 b - an uncursed amulet of faith
 j - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration
 k - a +2 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 r - a cursed ring of teleportation
 t - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 z - an amulet of the acrobat (around neck)
 G - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 N - an uncursed amulet of regeneration
 S - a +3 ring of dexterity (right hand)
Wands
 f - a wand of flame (17)
 M - a wand of digging (19)
 P - a wand of iceblast (10)
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of immolation
 e - a scroll of identify
 l - 16 scrolls of remove curse
 o - a scroll of silence
 v - 8 scrolls of fog
 w - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 x - 2 scrolls of fear
 E - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 F - a scroll of vulnerability
 J - a scroll of magic mapping
 Q - a scroll of enchant weapon
 U - a scroll of summoning
Potions
 m - 2 potions of brilliance
 n - 2 potions of cancellation
 s - a potion of might
 u - a potion of haste
 B - 5 potions of agility
 H - 4 potions of flight
 I - 3 potions of magic
 K - 4 potions of heal wounds
 O - 5 potions of curing
Comestibles
 c - 24 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 4.1 Shields
 + Level 10.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 15.5 Conjurations
 - Level 6.0 Necromancy
 - Level 15.7 Fire Magic
 + Level 1.9 Earth Magic
 + Level 4.1 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        0%          1    None
b - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #######.     0%          3    None
c - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #######.     1%          4    None
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          5    None
e - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
f - Bolt of Draining      Conj/Necr      ######....   1%          5    None
g - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          6    None
h - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ######....   4%          6    None

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Ozocubu's Refrigeration  Ice            ###.......   75%         6    None
 Throw Flame              Conj/Fire      ######       0%          2    None
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
 Pain                     Necr           ####         1%          1    None
 Sandblast                Erth           ####..       1%          1    None
 Corpse Rot               Necr           N/A          1%          2    None
 Ignite Poison            Fire/Tmut/Pois #####...     1%          3    None
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       ######..     1%          3    None
 Mephitic Cloud           Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           ######....   1%          3    None
 Confusing Touch          Hex            ###...       3%          1    None
 Corona                   Hex            ###....      3%          1    None
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      ####......   3%          3    None
 Poisonous Vapours        Pois/Air       ###...       5%          2    None
 Slow                     Hex            ###.....     5%          2    None
 Confuse                  Hex            ###.....     11%         3    None
 Gell's Gravitas          Tloc           ###.......   11%         3    None
 Portal Projectile        Hex/Tloc       ###...       11%         3    None
 Bolt of Magma            Conj/Fire/Erth ######....   1%          5    None
 Irradiate                Conj/Tmut      ######....   1%          5    None
 Animate Dead             Necr           N/A          2%          4    None
 Agony                    Necr           ######..     8%          5    None
 Dispel Undead            Necr           ######..     8%          5    None
 Freezing Cloud           Conj/Ice/Air   #####.....   17%         6    None
 Leda's Liquefaction      Hex/Erth       ###.......   22%         4    None
 Petrify                  Tmut/Erth      ###.....     22%         4    None
 Yara's Violent Unravell  Hex/Tmut       ###.......   24%         5    None
 Excruciating Wounds      Chrm/Necr      ####......   28%         5    None
 Cause Fear               Hex            ###.......   34%         4    None
 Alistair's Intoxication  Tmut/Pois      ###.....     67%         5    None
 Metabolic Englaciation   Hex/Ice        ###.......   67%         5    None
 Ring of Flames           Chrm/Fire      ######....   75%         7    None
 Statue Form              Tmut/Erth      ###......    98%         6    None
 Hydra Form               Tmut           ###.......   99%         6    None
 Dragon Form              Tmut           ###.......   100%        7    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (6/6) D:9
  Swamp (0/4) Lair:4        Snake (0/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13
Depths: D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 (   D:12 !   D:14 *   Orc:1 %   Orc:2 ?=(%}

Annotations:
D:9 2 runed doors, slayr's ghost, novice SpEn
D:10 exclusion: obsidian statue
Lair:1 2 transporters, poxu's ghost, journeyman CeHu

Message History

You draw magical energy from your own body!
Casting: Sublimation of Blood (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You draw magical energy from your own body!
Casting: Sublimation of Blood (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You draw magical energy from your own body!
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You start resting.
You are feeling hungry.
Okay, then.
You see here a komodo dragon corpse.
You butcher the komodo dragon corpse.
T - a chunk of flesh
Eat a chunk of flesh? (ye/n/q)
You eat the chunk of flesh. This raw flesh tastes terrible.
You start resting.
HP restored.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Saving game... please wait.

           ... ##.
           #.#...
      #.####.#.##.#
      #...§)......#
           #.#
           #.#
           #.#       ###
 ###########.######  #..
 #.....@..........#  #.#
##.#####..#..###..####.#
#.........#..# #..#.....
#..#####..#..###.....#.#
#..#.................#.#
#..#.###.......#.....#..
#.........#...##..######
#.#..###..........#
#........##......##


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Frances (D:14)
  Kirke (Lair:6)
  An ettin (Orc:1)
  A catoblepas (Lair:6)
  7 hydras
  2 centaur warriors (D:14)
  A deep troll shaman (Lair:6)
  10 death yaks
  5 ogre magi
  16 two-headed ogres
  2 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  2 skeletal warriors (Volcano)
  A deep troll (Orc:1)
  Pikel (D:8)
  2 wolf spider zombies
  3 orc knights
  6 ugly things
  A necromancer (D:13)
  4 oklob plants (Lair:4)
  2 manticores
  4 orc sorcerers
  A wolf spider (D:15)
  2 cyclopes
  9 elephants
  2 centaur zombies (D:14)
  Joseph (D:7)
  7 gargoyles
  9 spiny frogs
  6 black mambas
  2 kobold demonologists
  4 centaur skeletons
  3 yaktaurs (D:14)
  A rime drake (Lair:6)
  6 komodo dragons
  An efreet (D:15)
  A yaktaur (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  6 trolls
  A queen bee (D:8)
  4 polar bears
  Grinder (D:3)
  6 slime creatures (D:13)
  7 hippogriffs
  6 blink frogs
  2 harpy skeletons (Volcano)
  3 flying skulls (Volcano)
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A shadow (D:14)
  A wraith (D:11)
  2 wyverns
  A spriggan (Lair:2)
  37 yaks
  5 basilisks
  2 vampires (D:13)
  5 hogs (Lair:6)
  A hungry ghost (D:11)
  A steam dragon (D:9)
  3 vampire mosquitoes (Lair:4)
  Menkaure (D:6)
  2 acid dragons
  2 wargs
  13 porcupines
  9 water moccasins
  A swamp drake (D:9)
  2 slaves (D:8)
  36 ogres
  4 ice beasts
  32 orc warriors
  2 sky beasts (D:11)
  3 eyes of draining
  2 black bears
  2 phantoms
  10 centaurs
  15 wolves
  A big kobold (D:14)
  12 bullfrogs
  11 crocodiles
  Blork the orc (D:7)
  An earth elemental (D:14)
  A gnoll sergeant (Orc:2)
  4 scorpions
  6 wights
  20 killer bees
  2 spriggan skeletons (Volcano)
  3 troll skeletons (Volcano)
  3 electric eels (Lair:4)
  11 howler monkeys
  5 crimson imps
  2 bullfrog zombies
  5 jellies
  26 orc wizards
  7 bullfrog skeletons
  14 orc priests
  4 hounds
  Crazy Yiuf (D:2)
  Terence (D:3)
  2 iguanas (D:14)
  12 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:10)
  A naga skeleton (Volcano)
  A hound zombie (D:7)
  2 hound skeletons
  Robin (D:2)
  7 adders
  10 gnolls
  3 shadow imps
  An ooze (D:5)
  An adder skeleton (D:10)
  An adder zombie (D:7)
  5 worms
  A dart slug (D:1)
  4 leopard geckos
  97 orcs
  9 giant cockroaches
  15 goblins
  11 hobgoblins
  14 kobolds
  5 quokkas
  3 ball pythons
  A ball python skeleton (D:4)
  3 bats
  8 frilled lizards
  A giant cockroach zombie (D:5)
  2 gnoll zombies (D:8)
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  A jackal zombie (D:5)
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:4)
  9 rats
  A plant (Lair:4)
736 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  2 gargoyles (Volcano)
  2 harpy skeletons (Volcano)
  A troll skeleton (Volcano)
5 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  Maurice (D:9)
  A porcupine (D:9)
  A slave (D:8)
  A leopard gecko (D:8)
  2 orcs
  13 fungi
  29 plants
48 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 789 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | delarado the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist began the quest for
                  | the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   355 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 5/8
   635 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
   926 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  1100 | D:2      | Found a runed door.
  1122 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 7/9
  1143 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  1637 | D:2      | Noticed Robin
  2012 | D:2      | Killed Robin
  2036 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/10
  3036 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  3036 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 23/28 MP: 6/11
  4216 | D:2      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  4306 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4310 | D:3      | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  4327 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 9/12
  4369 | D:3      | Noticed Terence
  4376 | D:3      | Killed Terence
  4429 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  4688 | D:4      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
  4736 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  4925 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 31/36 MP: 7/13
  5757 | D:4      | Found Ytew's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  5774 | D:4      | Bought a runed blowgun for 88 gold pieces
  5964 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5968 | D:5      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
  5968 | D:5      | Offered knowledge of Magic Dart by Vehumet.
  6647 | D:5      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  7001 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  7006 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 7/14
  7343 | D:6      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  7406 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7414 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7612 | D:6      | Noticed Menkaure
  7887 | D:7      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
  8067 | D:6      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8486 | D:6      | Killed Menkaure
  9094 | D:7      | Killed Blork the orc
  9325 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  9476 | D:7      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  9502 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  9707 | D:8      | Noticed a queen bee
  9729 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 46/46 MP: 11/15
  9733 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  9737 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
  9974 | D:8      | Offered knowledge of Freeze by Vehumet.
 10157 | D:8      | Noticed Pikel
 10172 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
 10313 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 10507 | D:8      | Killed a queen bee
 11407 | D:8      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 11518 | D:8      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 11828 | D:9      | Noticed Maurice
 11836 | D:9      | Killed Maurice
 11836 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 47/56 MP: 2/16
 12389 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Searing Ray by Vehumet.
 12625 | D:9      | Found a large runed door.
 12629 | D:9      | Noticed slayr's ghost (novice SpEn)
 12631 | D:9      | Found a large runed door.
 12682 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12827 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 13020 | D:9      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
 13090 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 13565 | D:9      | Noticed a manticore
 13578 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 13581 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 13730 | D:9      | Killed a manticore
 14082 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Ignite Poison by Vehumet.
 14218 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 14395 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 14395 | Lair:1   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 14402 | Lair:1   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 14402 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 14402 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 65/65 MP: 2/19
 15026 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 15274 | Lair:1   | Found a transporter.
 15278 | Lair:1   | Noticed poxu's ghost (journeyman CeHu)
 15287 | Lair:1   | Found a transporter.
 15747 | Lair:2   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 15950 | Lair:2   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 15950 | Lair:2   | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 16458 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Magma by Vehumet.
 17008 | Lair:3   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 17527 | Lair:3   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 17737 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 75/75 MP: 17/21
 18010 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18010 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18010 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18012 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18038 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 18104 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 18151 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 18405 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 18901 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 2 spell: Sublimation of Blood
 19079 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 19335 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 20264 | Lair:4   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 20299 | Lair:4   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 20756 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 21065 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 21617 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 22412 | Lair:5   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 22412 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 22586 | Lair:5   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 22590 | Lair:5   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 22590 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 82/82 MP: 4/22
 22662 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 23439 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 24008 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 24751 | D:10     | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 25255 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
 25255 | D:7      | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 25255 | D:7      | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Draining by Vehumet.
 25714 | D:3      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 25850 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 25864 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
 26020 | D:2      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
 26025 | D:2      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
 26070 | D:2      | Killed Sigmund
 26482 | Orc:1    | Noticed an ettin
 27008 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 27208 | Orc:1    | Killed an ettin
 27678 | Orc:1    | Found Zourrayl's Food Emporium.
 28147 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 28252 | Lair:6   | Found a dark tunnel.
 28263 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Draining
 28266 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 30600 | Lair:6   | Noticed Kirke
 30634 | Lair:6   | Noticed a sphinx
 30634 | Lair:6   | Killed Kirke
 30638 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 31247 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 88/88 MP: 18/25
 32771 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 33051 | Orc:2    | Offered knowledge of Airstrike by Vehumet.
 33430 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 33763 | Orc:2    | Found Codiaz's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of silence for 82 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of fear for 38 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of fog for 22 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 33774 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of fear for 38 gold pieces
 33831 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 92/92 MP: 25/27
 33963 | Orc:2    | Found Kagiuxkyl's Food Emporium.
 33963 | Orc:2    | Found Iwiqairr's Jewellery Boutique.
 33966 | Orc:2    | Found Pann's Gadget Shop.
 33966 | Orc:2    | Found Idifeib's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 34095 | Orc:2    | Bought a cursed ring of teleportation for 58 gold pieces
 34688 | D:11     | Reached skill level 15 in Fire Magic
 35413 | D:11     | Offered knowledge of Venom Bolt by Vehumet.
 36059 | D:11     | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations
 36635 | D:12     | Found Kapryf Sagit's Distillery.
 36671 | D:12     | Bought 2 potions of magic for 176 gold pieces
 36671 | D:12     | Bought a potion of brilliance for 44 gold pieces
 36671 | D:12     | Bought a potion of curing for 33 gold pieces
 36671 | D:12     | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 55 gold pieces
 36671 | D:12     | Bought a potion of curing for 33 gold pieces
 38176 | D:13     | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet.
 38184 | D:13     | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire
 38334 | D:13     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 95/97 MP: 12/29
 38935 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 39369 | D:14     | Found Usasyry's Pet Rocks.
 39379 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 39917 | D:14     | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet.
 40360 | D:14     | Noticed Frances
 40372 | D:14     | Killed Frances
 40804 | D:14     | Bought Sif Muna's Papyrus of the Mountains for 906 gold
                  | pieces
 40811 | D:14     | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot
 41138 | D:14     | Found Usasyry's Pet Rocks.
 41830 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 42122 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic
 42130 | D:15     | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |     2  3     4  5  7  9             12 13 15    | 15.5
Fire Magic     |     4     5     6  7  9          10 12 14 15    | 15.7
Dodging        |                       3  6 10 12 14             | 14.0
Fighting       |                          3  6  8 10             | 10.0
Shields        |                          4                      |  4.1
Spellcasting   |                             4  5     6  7    10 | 10.1
Necromancy     |                                   4  5  6       |  6.0
Evocations     |                                               4 |  4.1
Earth Magic    |                                               1 |  1.9
Stealth        |                                                 |  2.4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Hunting sling     |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Hand axe          |       |       |    14 |       |       |       ||    14
       Falchion          |       |       |     1 |    11 |   180 |    41 ||   233
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
 Fire: Hunting sling     |     3 |    34 |    12 |       |       |       ||    49
       Blowgun           |       |       |    12 |    17 |    55 |     2 ||    86
Throw: Stone             |    26 |       |    16 |    29 |       |       ||    71
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |    10 |     4 |     1 ||    15
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    70 |   117 |   183 |   164 |   252 |    24 ||   810
       Conjure Flame     |     1 |       |     8 |     1 |     9 |     3 ||    22
       Sticky Flame      |       |     1 |    39 |   115 |   104 |    15 ||   274
       Fireball          |       |       |    10 |    73 |   204 |    15 ||   302
       Sublimation of Bl |       |       |       |     3 |    65 |    21 ||    89
       Bolt of Draining  |       |       |       |       |    19 |     4 ||    23
       Bolt of Fire      |       |       |       |       |     4 |    60 ||    64
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |    15 ||    15
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     9 |       ||     9
  Use: Scroll            |       |     8 |    11 |     6 |    21 |     1 ||    47
       Potion            |       |     1 |     1 |     2 |     6 |     1 ||    11
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |     6 |    15 |    27 |    53 |    16 ||   120
       Ration            |       |     1 |     5 |    12 |    16 |     3 ||    37
Armor: Robe              |     2 |    19 |    19 |    15 |    38 |     7 ||   100
Dodge: Dodged            |    15 |    81 |    65 |   163 |   280 |    73 ||   677
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |    58 |   123 |    27 ||   208
Rpst.: Falchion          |       |       |    16 |     6 |    43 |    13 ||    78

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 154

Joined: Sunday, 11th May 2014, 11:26

Post Tuesday, 22nd January 2019, 13:40

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

I don't like DE when I play magic user. prefer Og, DD, Na, and Dr mainly So I have afford HP more than DE, and this magic was always useful to me. And I invested more in Necromancy than you did. At least 10.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 197

Joined: Sunday, 11th September 2016, 17:21

Post Tuesday, 22nd January 2019, 17:35

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

It's terrible at low to moderate power, and is only worth casting at high or maximum power. Of all the spells in the game, it's the one I think is most desperate for a rework.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8627

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 22nd January 2019, 19:17

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Sublimation is just Regeneration but for MP. You use it because it saves a ton of turns resting. Like Regeneration, you don't cast it in the middle of dangerous fights, since with good tactics you shouldn't be running out of MP in dangerous fights in the first place.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 651

Joined: Wednesday, 19th June 2013, 09:31

Post Tuesday, 22nd January 2019, 22:28

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Thats not really how I see it Duvessa...

For me, I don't bother learning regeneration because it is, as you say, just a time saving tool thats used to save turn count outside of fights. Im not going for high scores or speed runs, so for me, its a waste of spell slots.

Sublimation of blood however, could be useful in a battle. Even with Vehumets mana regen on kill, you can still sometimes run low on mana in extended fights. I think giving the player the choice to gain MP (More killing power) at the expense of survivability is a good and interesting decision to put in the players hands, especially on the more fragile casters. You have a speed 10 enemy 5 tiles away. You have enough MP for 2 bolts of fire, but it generally takes 3 to kill said enemy. Bringing yourself closer to death in order to kill that single enemy I think adds suspense and makes the game more interesting. You never know, one bolt could miss completely and you could end up with an enemy next to you with low MP. It would be a fun and interesting choice to make and provides an interesting trade off.

At the moment, the safest method of play (That I've found) is exploring a bit from each staircase to clear the immediate area, and then making noise near the staircase and shooting stuff while you are very close to it. Kill everything you can until low on MP, then go back up the stairs before something gets next to you and go down a different set with full MP and rinse and repeat.

I think even something as subtle as making it always give you at least 4MP back if it suceeds (the cast cost + 2 extra) Would make it hugely more compelling to use in a combat focused way, rather than just to save time between battles.

Problems I see at the moment is the spell is situational at best, and heavily species dependant. If you have a lot of HP its much better to use than if you are fragile. This means fragile pure conjuration characters can benefit from it most, but also are least likely to use it since the drawbacks to using it hit them so hard.

My suggestion would be:
-MP gain based on a calculation of spell power as a percentage of max MP, and a dice roll to determine that. E.g MP gain is 3d(Spell power/8) so if spell power is 200, max MP regain of 75% mana. and a maximum regain of 18% at spell power 50. The MP gain is capped by your max MP, so if you are at 40% mana and you cast the spell, the % roll is set to 60 if you roll more than 60.
-HP Loss is based on the percentage of MP gained and scales down with spell power. So something like HP Loss=(150/spell power)*MP Gain to give a max HP loss of 54% at spell power 50 for 18% of your mana back, and a max HP loss of 56.25% at spell power 200 for 75% of your mana back. This way the HP Loss is somewhat predictable and linear, but you always get better MP gain results by training for more spell power.

This would make the spell useful for any species really as a percentage HP loss is more easily dealt with than a numbered loss on low HP characters.

If theres an appetite for change and my proposal is compelling in any way I'm happy to do more work on it. The numbers are picked out of the sky, but if anyone finds it interesting I'll do more research and firm up a more well thought out proposal.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8627

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 00:38

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

delarado wrote:At the moment, the safest method of play (That I've found) is exploring a bit from each staircase to clear the immediate area, and then making noise near the staircase and shooting stuff while you are very close to it.
Hint: this has nothing to do with MP, and no amount of MP recovery is going to change it

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 651

Joined: Wednesday, 19th June 2013, 09:31

Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 13:04

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

duvessa wrote:
delarado wrote:At the moment, the safest method of play (That I've found) is exploring a bit from each staircase to clear the immediate area, and then making noise near the staircase and shooting stuff while you are very close to it.
Hint: this has nothing to do with MP, and no amount of MP recovery is going to change it


I don't think thats a reason not to try and re-work a spell that could do with a re-work though?

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 472

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Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 16:13

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

I see it as an interesting feature that more HP gives more opportunities for using SoB. It leaves room for combos like statueform + SoB, or training fighting instead of spellcasting.

I do agree it's a bit frustrating I often gain no MP or all my MP. Looking at the wiki, they actually chose a "negative binomial" distribution for the MP gained, which is the reason why you'll often gain a little or a lot. An elegant way to make SoB more reliable would be to change the amount of MP gained to 1D(spellpower/3) or even 3D(spellpower/9)-2.

There must've been a reason why they made SoB unreliable though.

Spider Stomper

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Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 17:12

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Originally, Sublimation of Blood was able to consume chunks, though, and the removal of that feature was a radical alteration to the spell. I don't think we should stick with the math designed for the original version if there's better math that could be used for the current version.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 21:22

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Sublimation of blood can be changed to work like Deflect Missiles: you cast it once and it stops HP regeneration but increases MP regeneration. When you are at full MP it becomes automatically grey and you have normal HP regeneration. If you lose some MP, it activates again. It will greatly help characters who lose no HP while killing everything with spells.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 23rd January 2019, 22:36

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

That would ruin my main use for the spell, which is quickly getting more mp during combat

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Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 24th January 2019, 04:10

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

The other suggested use, to reduce the number of turns required to recover MP by resting, isn't compelling and isn't well-served by the existing spell implementation. It has a tendency to be counterproductive, both by costing more MP than it produces, and by taking huge chunks of HP that take even longer to recover than the original missing MP would have.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 24th January 2019, 06:23

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

You really want to combine sublimation of blood with regeneration.
...{HEMoDEHuDDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz
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Post Thursday, 24th January 2019, 08:54

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Making SOB like Dmsl: interesting, and no doubt would be useful, but I think that having it use your health provides a necessary drawback, and making it restore chunks of MP is good for a "quick fix" in certain situations. I worry that just making it a constant extra MP regen tool would just be a huge buff to casters if its enough to make a difference in a fight, and leave it in the realms of useless if its not strong enough. I think it most definitely needs to have a drawback to it.

I see it as an interesting feature that more HP gives more opportunities for using SoB. It leaves room for combos like statueform + SoB, or training fighting instead of spellcasting.


More HP Giving more opportunity to use SOB, yes it does do that currently. But I think its kind of counter intuitive that the characters that need the spell most (Ones that rely more heavily on ranged combat using only MP) are currently the ones that this spell is most dangerous to use on. I feel like thats like giving characters that want to use the heaviest armor the least HP.

I feel like the math could be changed to make it less of a "Complete waste of time or you are half dead" spell, and as a bonus it'd be nice if something could be done to make it more usable on fragile casters.

Possibly you could base the max MP regeneration on the max HP of the caster, and base the HP Removal off the amount of MP restored? something like max MP Restore is (spellpower/2)*(MaxHP/4) to give a max MP restore of 1/4 of your HP

This ensures that high HP users can still get really good benefit out of it, and low HP users can get good benefit without killing themselves? I feel like this could still be punishing the people who need it most somewhat and buffing high HP casters, but it'd certainly make it more usable across the board?

EDIT: Maybe there could be some kind of math to reduce the damage taken by the spell with more INT?

Maybe I'll do 3 quick math problems with graphs to show proposed effects and post it here.

Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 24th January 2019, 17:07

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Sprucery wrote:You really want to combine sublimation of blood with regeneration.


I meant even with Regeneration.

Regarding scaling the effectiveness with Int, that's kind of done indirectly through spell power, which scales with Int.

Regarding making Sublimation a reliable in-combat MP recovery tool, realize that of the 3 magic gods, both Vehumet and Sif Muna provide powerful, safe in-combat MP management features, whereas all that Kiku provides is a quirky mess of a spell that is often counterproductive and can be extremely dangerous. It was much more reasonable when chunks could be used to power the spell (especially since corpses can be summoned for material), but wielding chunks was super awkward (especially considering they didn't all go into a single stack back then), so removing that feature was understandable. But because the spell is available to non-Kiku worshipers, I think it's important to tie the spell to corpse availability somehow.

So, here's an idea. Why not allow species to butcher drinkable corpses if they are Kiku worshipers, and produce potions of blood in addition to chunks? If there is a potion of blood in the inventory (possibly with a configuration option to prompt for confirmation if the supply dips below a specified number of potions), then one of the potions will be consumed, otherwise if the player is able to cast the current version of the spell, 10% of the player's maximum HP is consumed (players unable to cast the current version of the spell can only cast the spell by consuming a potion). Regardless of blood source, something like 3d3 + rnd(power * maxMP / 200) MP are restored, making it potentially useful but somewhat unreliable throughout the game, while presenting a manageable risk to non-Kiku worshipers and a competitive MP management feature to Kiku worshipers. Vampires would gain some collateral benefit from this, since they can get blood potions without worshiping Kiku, but their very survival is tied to managing their blood supply, so there's already enough incentive for them to worship Kiku that I don't see this as a problem.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 24th January 2019, 19:10

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Can we make it ability provided by Makhleb?
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duvessa

Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 26th January 2019, 22:06

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

Nekoatl wrote:
Sprucery wrote:You really want to combine sublimation of blood with regeneration.


I meant even with Regeneration.

Regarding scaling the effectiveness with Int, that's kind of done indirectly through spell power, which scales with Int.

Regarding making Sublimation a reliable in-combat MP recovery tool, realize that of the 3 magic gods, both Vehumet and Sif Muna provide powerful, safe in-combat MP management features, whereas all that Kiku provides is a quirky mess of a spell that is often counterproductive and can be extremely dangerous. It was much more reasonable when chunks could be used to power the spell (especially since corpses can be summoned for material), but wielding chunks was super awkward (especially considering they didn't all go into a single stack back then), so removing that feature was understandable. But because the spell is available to non-Kiku worshipers, I think it's important to tie the spell to corpse availability somehow.

So, here's an idea. Why not allow species to butcher drinkable corpses if they are Kiku worshipers, and produce potions of blood in addition to chunks? If there is a potion of blood in the inventory (possibly with a configuration option to prompt for confirmation if the supply dips below a specified number of potions), then one of the potions will be consumed, otherwise if the player is able to cast the current version of the spell, 10% of the player's maximum HP is consumed (players unable to cast the current version of the spell can only cast the spell by consuming a potion). Regardless of blood source, something like 3d3 + rnd(power * maxMP / 200) MP are restored, making it potentially useful but somewhat unreliable throughout the game, while presenting a manageable risk to non-Kiku worshipers and a competitive MP management feature to Kiku worshipers. Vampires would gain some collateral benefit from this, since they can get blood potions without worshiping Kiku, but their very survival is tied to managing their blood supply, so there's already enough incentive for them to worship Kiku that I don't see this as a problem.

Necromancy is far less MP-intensive (and especially less in-combat-MP-intensive) than blasting or hexing. It's not obvious the necromancy god should fix a problem necromancy doesn't have.
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Post Sunday, 27th January 2019, 03:09

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

In terms of MP-relevance, Necromancy is arguably the most severe school of magic, post rework of derived undead, because resting to recover MP (or HP for that matter) burns through the lifespan of all your derived undead allies. I actually make a point of carrying around a set of troll armour to equip and recover HP between fights when playing a Necromancer, for exactly this reason.

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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 28th January 2019, 15:52

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

I have a hard time imagining a more MP- and HP-efficient way to kill monsters than derived undead. Yeah, sitting around and resting will eat the time off your zombies but you have the zombies so you don't need full MP and HP bars to go around and kill monsters.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 28th January 2019, 16:41

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

njvack wrote:I have a hard time imagining a more MP- and HP-efficient way to kill monsters than derived undead. Yeah, sitting around and resting will eat the time off your zombies but you have the zombies so you don't need full MP and HP bars to go around and kill monsters.

Ranged Kiting, and (Hex) Stabbing, (unless it fails or isn't an option), are more efficient on average. But necromancy is better than conjurations, melee combat, or summoning on average in terms of MP+HP efficiency. There are of course always things that every attack option will be very poor against.
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Post Saturday, 2nd February 2019, 14:33

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

So there have been a lot of good suggestions in this thread. For me, this is what I'd like to see happen:

-SOB become more predictable and less binary in its benefit, but still retain the possibility to produce an "Oh shit I just lost half my HP" Moment.
-increase effectiveness at higher spell power. More MP Gain, less HP loss, or a combination of both.
-Not include any properties that aim to make it synergistic with a particular god or class. All classes and backgrounds should be able to use it and gain benefit.
-I originally thought a lower HP Pool should mean lower HP loss, but now I think it shouldn't - Since the low HP characters probably get more "power/damage per MP" than higher HP classes (E.g a draconian vs a deep elf, the average deep elf can probably do more damage with 15mp than a draconian)

The blood potion idea is an interesting one, but I feel like it would be hard to implement. Players would end up with an endless stack of blood potions, giving them near infinite mana - and it would also render the spell useless for non kiku worshippers.

Does anyone have anything further to add to my bullet points above, or disagree with them? If not, I'll work on some formulas and graphs so we can see how it'd look in practice.

Blades Runner

Posts: 525

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Wednesday, 20th March 2019, 21:14

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

When used properly, sublimation of blood is one of the most powerful spells in the game. Sorry, but anyone saying that it is nothing more than a time saver and not usable in battle really doesn't know what they are talking about.

The best cases to use it (and also potentially the strongest response you can deliver in the game) are:

* Worshipping Mahkleb so you gain life on kill
* Casting spells which cause damage over time (tornado, toxic radiance, etc.)

When a player is strong enough, it isn't limited to useful with damage over time spells. For example:

Firestorm ---> (nuke stuff)
Sublimate ---> regain mana
Firestorm ---> (nuke stuff, regain health)

Sublimate is not a spell for necromancers only. It's a spell for powerful spell casters, who could, possibly have trained some necromancy just for the sake of this one spell. If you have high enough intelligence, arch-mage, high spell casting, you don't necessarily need a huge investment in necromancy although you probably should anyways for necromutate.

If you look at the potential damage output from highly charged level 9 spells, and the rate at which you can cast them by using sublimate, it puts sublimate into perspective just what a powerful spell it can be.

There are two drawbacks to this spell:
1) You cannot use it as undead, or in lichform. Thus, you need an alternate form of mana recovery (staff of energy)
2) You cannot use it worshipping TSO. This means, to achieve sublimate's full potential, you need to be more of a stronger spell caster (which costs more XP), but probably is the most powerful combination if XP isn't a consideration (for example, running Zigs)

In any case, to say that sublimation of blood is a weak spell is outrageously ignorant.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Monday, 18th March 2019, 22:11

Post Wednesday, 20th March 2019, 23:01

Re: Sublimation Of Blood Thoughts

I don't really see sublimation of blood being a strong spell except through maybe extended. In general the mana pool you have past the early game doesn't really matter when you are close to the stairs or in explored areas and can kill things effectively. The few places where it is relevant (vaults 5, a bad tele) other consumables like potions of magic is more than sufficient. Even in extended, staff of energy/crystal ball is a better alternative.

Once idea for sublimation of blood would be for it to be a status that provides MP on kills (like when you could wield corpses and use the spell or for it to stop health regen and provide the same effect of an amulet of magic regen.

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