Nets vs player are too powerful and random


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 4th October 2018, 11:49

Nets vs player are too powerful and random

Can we please change net mechanic to something more reasonable like you are guaranteed to get out of net on your 3rd attempt and then you get temporary immunity to nets (similar to what was done for banishment).
Spoiler: show
Inspired by
  Code:
A gnoll comes into view. It is wielding a spear.
The gnoll shouts!
The gnoll throws a throwing net. The throwing net hits you.
You become entangled in the net!
Things that are here:
a throwing net {=f}; an enchanted whip
You struggle against the net.
You struggle against the net. The gnoll hits you with a flail!
You struggle against the net. The gnoll hits you with a flail!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You rip the net and break free! The gnoll throws a throwing net.
The throwing net hits you. You become entangled in the net!
You struggle against the net. The gnoll hits you with a flail!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
It was a potion of flight.
You feel very buoyant.
You fly up into the air. The gnoll hits you with a flail!
You die...
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Thursday, 4th October 2018, 14:07

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

Well, I could have played better there - I play very badly in the early game - but yes, dying right after reaching level 5 on the CSDC challence because of double net feels bad. I looked forward to a fun challenge :( Gnolls are very scary!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3983

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 4th October 2018, 14:34

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

I think your play does not matter for the purpose of this thread. I haven't watched ttyrec but the same morgue would be for character who turned around a corner, instantly got netted, spent 4 turns trying to break free, then got netted again and had bad luck with breaking free from second net too. It was on D:2 so it is easy not to have any identified consumables at this point.

Spoiler: show
f - 3 scrolls of remove curse
w - a scroll of amnesia {unknown}
Potions
j - a potion of brilliance
l - a potion of resistance {unknown}
r - a potion of berserk rage {unknown}
u - a potion of mutation {unknown}


As far as I know DCSS philosophy accepts unavoidable deaths but still tries to mitigate them and in this case we can reduce their chance but providing a limit of unsuccessful attempts to escape and also by giving immunity to being netted again and again.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Slime Squisher

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 12:59

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

VeryAngryFelid wrote:and also by giving immunity to being netted again and again.


The easiest way to do this would be to limit monsters to carrying one net each. There would be no spoilers to look up, whereas a new immunity invites questions like: how long does net immunity last/is it like paralysis immunity/do the two immunities overlap/and so on.

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 13:53

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

The easiest solution is not giving nets to gnolls. Nets in the later game are not that dangerous.

Although you could argue that the early game became easier and easier with newer versions, so removing every lethal threat would make it a little bit pointless. I do not know what is the balance we aim for. Currently, the early game is far more dangerous than the late game, although not all players agree with me.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 15:59

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

How about no monsters spawn with nets before, say, d4? d5?
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VeryAngryFelid

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 16:35

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

One thing that probably was not obvious from the log, that there were two different gnolls involved, one threw the net and the other hit me with a flail. That was my mistake to let two of them in my LOS, and that is why usually nets are not so lethal as you think. A gnoll who has a net usually throws it from a distance, so you can escape the net before she reaches you, even in the case of two nets. So I am not so convinced of removing nets.

Suddenly being very close to a dangerous monster is always a big threat in the first few levels of the dungeon, and gnolls with nets are not the worst. Orc priests, centaurs, Sigmund, Natasha can generate in D2 as well and kill you if you happen to find yourself in a bad position. I do not think that nets are a bigger threat than smiting, confuse, etc.

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Post Wednesday, 10th October 2018, 11:31

Re: Nets vs player are too powerful and random

sanka wrote:Suddenly being very close to a dangerous monster is always a big threat in the first few levels of the dungeon, and gnolls with nets are not the worst. Orc priests, centaurs, Sigmund, Natasha can generate in D2 as well and kill you if you happen to find yourself in a bad position. I do not think that nets are a bigger threat than smiting, confuse, etc.
Agreed. In the first levels is very common to die for bad luck. Nets are not even the worst. Maybe Sigmund confuses you, maybe you get poison without any potion yet, maybe Iijib (or whatever the name of that guy is) has a strong wand, etc. Every time I turn a corner and find 2 orc priests is basically looking for a hail mary!

Ok, maybe you'll have to waste a scroll of blink, scroll of teleport, or potion of might to help you get out. But at least you still have control and a chance. Other cases are not so genorous.

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