Lair Larrikin
Posts: 16
Joined: Wednesday, 5th September 2018, 02:27
Ziggs, Pandemonium, and Farming
* Pandemonium is no longer for farming. This is my first impression from having attempted it several times, since coming back. I know there was a push to shorten Pandemonium. That's fine. But the side effect is that Pandemonium is no longer a viable farming target in 15 rune games. In a sense, it never was - after all, you mainly farm Pandemonium to prepare your character for a 15 rune run, and the fact that you might run into a special rune level while farming, before you're ready, could kill that run completely. But previously, it was still possible to pull off risky farming and to maybe give up 1 or 2 runes while doing it. Now, it's simply not viable, since you will most likely run into every special level within the first 10 maps. Thus, your character must be ready for the rune levels the moment you step into Pandemonium.
* Ziggs is also no longer for farming. This goes with the above. Ziggs were the premier farming targets for extended prior to 0.18, because you could always do a Ziggs, abandon it, then hope to find it again diving Pandemonium. Now, while you could still use it to prepare for extended, the moment you get into trouble and have to abandon, the door is effectively shut forever, since the only way back into Ziggs is Tomb 3 and that's basically a death sentence for any character that's not already ready to win extended.
* The Abyss is now the only place to farm, and it sucks. Logically, the two changes above make the Abyss the only viable place to farm, now, and certainly, I've seen many people do it. But, for the lack of a better word, farming the Abyss sucks ass. It's not much fun at all. Most monsters don't give that much experience, large packs are rare, treasure is rare, so it takes longer, and is more painful. You could still do it, and it probably is still mandatory for many of the slower learning races, but it isn't enjoyable like Pandemonium and Ziggs farming was.
* Consequently, extended is now a lot harder and more random. Because you can't farm Pandemonium, and you can't farm Ziggs, going into extended now requires a lot more luck about what you find in the first dungeon, Vaults, Depths, Mines, Halls, and the two easier rune branches. And it heavily favors characters that require less experience to get ahead. It's no longer possible to simply grind it out with a weaker character. Well, I take that back - it IS still possible to farm the Abyss for however many hours it takes, but the Abyss sucks and it isn't enjoyable. So effectively speaking, a lot of characters will need to just settle for 3 or 4 runes.
* Gods and builds now play a much larger role in whether you can do extended. For tournaments, I could see the benefit of removing farming. No longer do we have hours upon hours of Ziggs diving before a player is willing to make a run for it. It's more exciting, less safe. But it seems to also have the effect of limiting the types of characters people are willing to ascend. Since I've been back, I noticed much more limited build choices for those aiming for an extended victory. This makes sense, because the margin of error is much higher now that you can no longer effectively farm; but it also reduces the variety in the game.
Is there a compromise between these two options? I don't know. But I do think making Abyss the sole option for farming is a bad idea. Abyss is a terrible branch. It was designed to be. People should want to get the fuck out of the Abyss, not dive it endlessly because they can't find any other way to farm. In case there isn't enough experience in the game before Hell and Pandemonium to support most builds, then perhaps the game needs either more branches or more levels in Depths. Either way, the addiction to the money god for success in extended is kind of dumb. People are infinite farming Ziggs by abusing bribe level and I don't think that should be the standard strategy for extended.