Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls


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Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 04:14

Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

I've come across another stash surrounded by translucent stone walls in a Labyrinth.
AFAICR, the wand of digging only works on translucent rock walls.
Is this a bug created by the following no longer able to breakup walls?
(1) the wand of disintegration; and
(2) Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
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stash with translucent stone walls.png
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 05:13

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Disintegration could never destroy stone walls.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 07:13

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

So it seems you should have Shatter or be with Lugonu (assuming Labyrinth can be corrupted) to get the treasure? Good luck with having Shatter castable by the time you find a labyrinth...
...SENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEE{HEMoDEHuDDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}
{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}
DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNe

Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 07:49

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

There's a bailey like this as well, where the entrance before you enter it has some awesome axe inside that cant be retrieved. Pretty awesome when the bailey itself happens to drop garbage. For new players, they have no idea whats up and probably waste time on it. Veterans just realize its a waste of pixels.

Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 16:19

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Nobody has said this explicitly so far - LRD doesn't let you bust open walls any more.

That said, these vaults can be entered with Passwall. I think they should probably be removed, but you don't need Shatter to get in.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 16:37

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Stonar wrote:Nobody has said this explicitly so far - LRD doesn't let you bust open walls any more.

That said, these vaults can be entered with Passwall. I think they should probably be removed, but you don't need Shatter to get in.

Passwall only lets you go through rock, not stone.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 18:21

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Carry a distortion weapon, unwield until sent to the Abyss, grind to get Shatter or Corruption online, loot!

Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 18:51

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Siegurt wrote:
Stonar wrote:Nobody has said this explicitly so far - LRD doesn't let you bust open walls any more.

That said, these vaults can be entered with Passwall. I think they should probably be removed, but you don't need Shatter to get in.

Passwall only lets you go through rock, not stone.


There's transparent rock and transparent stone? That distinction seems totally unnecessary now.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Saturday, 15th September 2018, 03:23

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

RIP LRD

I wish passwall could take you through stone walls. Why can't it? Perhaps it could be made to take a *lot* longer to do so.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 15th September 2018, 05:13

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

The point of stone walls is to prevent you from being able to break the wall or pass through it*. So it's good that you can't passwall through it.
This is also why transparent stone exists, for when you want to show something inside a vault but don't want the wall to be breakable.

*if I don't mention that shatter exists someone will say "but what about shatter huh?"

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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 17th September 2018, 03:35

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Wahaha wrote:The point of stone walls is to prevent you from being able to break the wall or pass through it*. So it's good that you can't passwall through it.
This is also why transparent stone exists, for when you want to show something inside a vault but don't want the wall to be breakable.


But in the case of the OP vault, this means the loot is impossible to get. I for one find that extremely frustrating as a player. With the bailey vault axe you can at least in theory learn shatter late-game if you really want it. No one has shatter in the labyrinth; thus there's no way to get inside the vault.

Why not make one of the squares translucent rock in this case?

Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 17th September 2018, 06:31

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

The bailey vault axe is actually encased in unbreakable stone if I'm remembering what you're talking about. You can't ever get it, even with Shatter.

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Post Monday, 17th September 2018, 16:02

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

monkeytor wrote:But in the case of the OP vault, this means the loot is impossible to get. I for one find that extremely frustrating as a player. With the bailey vault axe you can at least in theory learn shatter late-game if you really want it. No one has shatter in the labyrinth; thus there's no way to get inside the vault.

CanOfWorms wrote:The bailey vault axe is actually encased in unbreakable stone if I'm remembering what you're talking about. You can't ever get it, even with Shatter.


Good vault design.
3 runes : MiMo^Ru, HOFi^Beogh, TrMo^Yredelemnul, GrFi^Ru
4 runes : DDFi^Makhleb
5 runes : GrEE^Vehumet
15 runes : MiFi^Ru, NaWz^Sif Muna
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 4th October 2018, 18:31

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

The only way to improve these would be to have the items be Identified Artifacts. That way you can see how beautiful they are, but can never have them. Like super models. :twisted:

Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 6th October 2018, 06:03

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Aren't you all overthinking this too much?

Isn't this just one of those hand-crafted areas put there purely for a bit of flavor (like a teaser of some sort) and not meant as something you should actually be able to reach?

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Barkeep

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Post Saturday, 6th October 2018, 15:28

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

It is, but Crawl doesn't have a way to tell players which are areas that are difficult to get to, and which are areas that are impossible to get to.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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duvessa

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Post Saturday, 6th October 2018, 16:13

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

I am OK with a vault that is cool flavor 99% of the time, and 1% of the time it has a slight reward for a player who can get Shatter castable by labyrinth.

I'm assuming those are ordinary quality items and not, say, artifact jewellery.

Though honestly even that would be OK.
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 15:45

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

I literally can't imagine a case where a character would be casting Shatter in a lab. And then you're not guaranteed to get a lab, or that the lab would spawn this vault, and... no.

The Trog altar with the burning book is (was? Is it still here?) good because you couldn't spend a bunch of time or wasting resources trying to puzzle out how to get the book and then if you did apport the book you get a cute joke. The lab one is less good because there are lots of ways it *could* be solvable (maybe if I wait the lab walls will shift and make an opening, maybe I can tele into it, maybe I can dig it, maybe /disint, maybe... /acid? I've never tried that against translucent stone, maybe Passwall, maybe LRD, maybe Shatter, maybe Passwall/LRD/Shatter after ?brilliance, maybe Corruption, maybe the minotaur can open it for me somehow, maybe it'll open after I kill the the minotaur, maybe some of these things only have a chance of working and trying again would work).

The only things that limit a player bashing their heads against this kind of unsolvable puzzle are food, wall clock patience, and willingness to spend consumables — and remember that there are precedents for most of these mechanics somewhere in Crawl.

If power creep is not a worry, make the walls destructible/passable like regular rock. If power creep *is* a worry, stop generating these kinds of situations, find a way of signposting "there is no way to obtain these items" to the player, or have the items destroyed after a short time so players don't spend time & resources fruitlessly.

I'm not against flavor; I like it. But it's important to clearly mark what things you can interact with in the game because there are so many potential ways to interact in Crawl.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Swamp Slogger

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Post Monday, 8th October 2018, 22:59

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

Seems like the almighty Yermak has found a solution; you need:
Feidhas, a distortion weapon and some form of flight...and oh...a trip to the Abyss! :shock:

see: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=25820

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Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 10th October 2018, 13:12

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

njvack wrote:If power creep *is* a worry, stop generating these kinds of situations, find a way of signposting "there is no way to obtain these items" to the player, or have the items destroyed after a short time so players don't spend time & resources fruitlessly.

I think the description of the stone wall sort of hints at that: it says only the most powerful of spells could destroy it. Perhaps if it more explicitely explained nothing could destroy it then people wouldn't try?
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 15th October 2018, 14:05

Re: Bug in Labyrinth? a stash with translucent stone walls

I think the ones you really can't destroy say you can't destroy them by any means — if it says only powerful spells will do it you still have Shatter. But:

1: Why would you think to xv on a wall
2: There may be other ways to bypass the wall without destroying it (eg, Yermak's trick) and maybe that's the puzzle.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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