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"Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 04:10by Alphaeus
So, in DnD 3.5e/Pathfinder there is an amulet that provides "enchantment" bonuses as well as "brands" for natural weapons/unarmed attacks.
One of the biggest drawbacks in DCSS of UC is that your natural attacks can't get enchantments or brands, which means that well enchanted weapons will often be more useful. One big time this shows up is playing a UC Troll trying to fight a hydra...but there are more examples. Sometimes you're fighting creatures with cold/fire weaknesses and wish you had that kind of brand, or just want a damage boost or maybe even "speed."
Now, the way you can get """enchantments""" more or less is through slaying bonuses. So my suggestion would be to pair slaying bonuses with the ability to "brand" natural weapons.
Enter Amulet of Mighty Fists. This is a basic item type that should generate commonly enough after a certain depth (D5-7, maybe?) that gives a variable slaying bonus as well as the benefit of a single brand to your natural weapons. The brand is random as well.
Distortion should be excluded from the brands because of the sheer power...and possible negatives. And abuse (UC TrAK w/distortion claws...uh, no.)
Vampiritic as well might be a bit powerful to be included, or it should be extremely rare.
Overall, I think the big impact of this is to make UC a bit more versatile and usable by builds that may not want to devote tons to UC.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 05:34by Nino
do you think transmutations aren't sufficient to make unarmed combat worthwhile?
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 05:57by Alphaeus
Transmutations are great, but they tend to be the "default" for UC builds...and for some such as troll training magic skills up high enough to put those to good use is difficult if not wasteful.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 23:22by Plantissue
So an amulet that basically acts as a weapon slot but for unarmed.
Btw that name would be nonsensical for crawl. I don't really see the reason to lose the uniqueness of unarmed into "your weapon slot is your amulet".
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Sunday, 4th February 2018, 00:03by Alphaeus
Plantissue wrote:So an amulet that basically acts as a weapon slot but for unarmed.
Btw that name would be nonsensical for crawl. I don't really see the reason to lose the uniqueness of unarmed into "your weapon slot is your amulet".
I can see this point, but I'd rather be less unique and more effective than more unique and dead.
That aside, the other option is making Unarmed/Claws/etc. count as weapons.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 02:05by tasonir
Alphaeus wrote:Vampiritic as well might be a bit powerful to be included, or it should be extremely rare.
This already exists, it's part of being a vine stalker. Works with weapons or with unarmed.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 11:25by Shtopit
I don't think that this amulet is needed, because the only difference between UC and maces/staves are the brands. The one situation in which I think it would make sense is with troll vs hydras, and that could be resolved if treeform gave you wood punches (turns your claws into tree stumps, damage bonus similar to stone form).
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 12:07by VeryAngryFelid
OP, there were different "brand weapon with different element" spells in previous versions, I believe nobody is going to return similar effects back into the game, especially if they affect UC only.
UC is unique as very weak early and very powerful later (even without transmutations) and changing that would make game worse IMHO.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 20:29by CanOfWorms
Shtopit wrote:The one situation in which I think it would make sense is with troll vs hydras, and that could be resolved if treeform gave you wood punches (turns your claws into tree stumps, damage bonus similar to stone form).
this phrasing makes it sound like lignification doesn't already do these things
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 21:22by Shtopit
It does? The tile has claws for trolls, so I supposed that it had claws to explicitly show that the claws are still present in treeform. Maybe it should be added to the in-game description of the potion. It just says that its branches can hold weapons.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 21:39by njvack
I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.
There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Thursday, 8th February 2018, 06:07by Alphaeus
njvack wrote:I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.
There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.
Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.
As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Thursday, 8th February 2018, 06:10by Siegurt
Alphaeus wrote:njvack wrote:I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.
There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.
Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.
As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.
I just played a UC Mi with no spells, it was fine (and my trolls just huck large rocks and zap wands at hydras) I'm not really sure what you mean there.
Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"
Posted:
Thursday, 8th February 2018, 22:20by njvack
Alphaeus wrote:Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.
As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.
Well, gloves are probably not gonna look great on your 'pode, but...
To be 100% honest, a UC-branding unrand would add what most unrands ultimately add: items with flavor that are often useless but sometimes great, that let you do something maybe suboptimal for a character because it's fun to use an unusual item.