"Amulet of Mighty Fists"


Although the central place for this kind of discussion is on the CDO wiki, some may find it helpful to discuss potential requests and suggestions here first.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 04:10

"Amulet of Mighty Fists"

So, in DnD 3.5e/Pathfinder there is an amulet that provides "enchantment" bonuses as well as "brands" for natural weapons/unarmed attacks.

One of the biggest drawbacks in DCSS of UC is that your natural attacks can't get enchantments or brands, which means that well enchanted weapons will often be more useful. One big time this shows up is playing a UC Troll trying to fight a hydra...but there are more examples. Sometimes you're fighting creatures with cold/fire weaknesses and wish you had that kind of brand, or just want a damage boost or maybe even "speed."

Now, the way you can get """enchantments""" more or less is through slaying bonuses. So my suggestion would be to pair slaying bonuses with the ability to "brand" natural weapons.

Enter Amulet of Mighty Fists. This is a basic item type that should generate commonly enough after a certain depth (D5-7, maybe?) that gives a variable slaying bonus as well as the benefit of a single brand to your natural weapons. The brand is random as well.

Distortion should be excluded from the brands because of the sheer power...and possible negatives. And abuse (UC TrAK w/distortion claws...uh, no.)

Vampiritic as well might be a bit powerful to be included, or it should be extremely rare.

Overall, I think the big impact of this is to make UC a bit more versatile and usable by builds that may not want to devote tons to UC.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 21

Joined: Sunday, 9th October 2016, 14:47

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 05:34

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

do you think transmutations aren't sufficient to make unarmed combat worthwhile?

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 05:57

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Transmutations are great, but they tend to be the "default" for UC builds...and for some such as troll training magic skills up high enough to put those to good use is difficult if not wasteful.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 211

Joined: Monday, 3rd April 2017, 11:44

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 23:22

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

So an amulet that basically acts as a weapon slot but for unarmed.

Btw that name would be nonsensical for crawl. I don't really see the reason to lose the uniqueness of unarmed into "your weapon slot is your amulet".

For this message the author Plantissue has received thanks:
duvessa

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 00:03

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Plantissue wrote:So an amulet that basically acts as a weapon slot but for unarmed.

Btw that name would be nonsensical for crawl. I don't really see the reason to lose the uniqueness of unarmed into "your weapon slot is your amulet".


I can see this point, but I'd rather be less unique and more effective than more unique and dead. :D

That aside, the other option is making Unarmed/Claws/etc. count as weapons.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5182

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 02:05

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Alphaeus wrote:Vampiritic as well might be a bit powerful to be included, or it should be extremely rare.

This already exists, it's part of being a vine stalker. Works with weapons or with unarmed.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1491

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 11:25

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

I don't think that this amulet is needed, because the only difference between UC and maces/staves are the brands. The one situation in which I think it would make sense is with troll vs hydras, and that could be resolved if treeform gave you wood punches (turns your claws into tree stumps, damage bonus similar to stone form).
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DsBeTr, 15DsFiRu, 3DsMoNe, 3FoHuGo, 3TrArOk, 3HOFEVe, 3MfGlOk, 4GrEEVe, 3BaIEChei, 3HuMoOka, 3MiWnQaz, 3VSFiAsh, 3DrTmMakh, 3DsCKXom, 3OgMoOka, 3NaFiOka, 3FoFiOka, 3MuFEVeh, 3CeHuOka, 3TrMoTSO, 3DEFESif

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3799

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 12:07

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

OP, there were different "brand weapon with different element" spells in previous versions, I believe nobody is going to return similar effects back into the game, especially if they affect UC only.
UC is unique as very weak early and very powerful later (even without transmutations) and changing that would make game worse IMHO.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Dungeon Master

Posts: 587

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 20:29

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Shtopit wrote:The one situation in which I think it would make sense is with troll vs hydras, and that could be resolved if treeform gave you wood punches (turns your claws into tree stumps, damage bonus similar to stone form).

this phrasing makes it sound like lignification doesn't already do these things

For this message the author CanOfWorms has received thanks: 2
duvessa, Shtopit
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1491

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 21:22

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

It does? The tile has claws for trolls, so I supposed that it had claws to explicitly show that the claws are still present in treeform. Maybe it should be added to the in-game description of the potion. It just says that its branches can hold weapons.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DsBeTr, 15DsFiRu, 3DsMoNe, 3FoHuGo, 3TrArOk, 3HOFEVe, 3MfGlOk, 4GrEEVe, 3BaIEChei, 3HuMoOka, 3MiWnQaz, 3VSFiAsh, 3DrTmMakh, 3DsCKXom, 3OgMoOka, 3NaFiOka, 3FoFiOka, 3MuFEVeh, 3CeHuOka, 3TrMoTSO, 3DEFESif
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4290

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 7th February 2018, 21:39

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.

There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Thursday, 8th February 2018, 06:07

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

njvack wrote:I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.

There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.


Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.

As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5708

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Thursday, 8th February 2018, 06:10

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Alphaeus wrote:
njvack wrote:I *could* imagine an unrand that would add a brand (or something) to unarmed attacks. It could occupy any slot without being weirder than Boots of the Assassin, but gloves come to mind as they'd meld with most transmutations.

There's still the pressing question of "what does that add to the game?" but tbh you can ask that question about pretty much any unrand's special effects.


Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.

As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.

I just played a UC Mi with no spells, it was fine (and my trolls just huck large rocks and zap wands at hydras) I'm not really sure what you mean there.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks:
ichbins
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4290

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Thursday, 8th February 2018, 22:20

Re: "Amulet of Mighty Fists"

Alphaeus wrote:Gloves would certainly make sense. Idk if they're still around, but Fencer's Gloves gave Riposte (much like the Boots of the Assassin you mention give Stabbing) so there is a precedent.

As to what it adds -- it adds variety and power to UC WITHOUT transmutations. The concept is to see a UC Minotaur, for example, that hasn't dumped skills into spellcasting to get a good transmutation, but rather goes pure melee. Or a Troll that doesn't have to freak out when it gets surrounded by 4 hydra in the Swamp. Or a really badass Octopode. Etc.

Well, gloves are probably not gonna look great on your 'pode, but...

To be 100% honest, a UC-branding unrand would add what most unrands ultimately add: items with flavor that are often useless but sometimes great, that let you do something maybe suboptimal for a character because it's fun to use an unusual item.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

For this message the author njvack has received thanks:
nago

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.