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Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Saturday, 23rd December 2017, 10:51
by bel
[This will probably also help for Yred.]

Like "Recall", but in reverse, and targeted. Or if it is easier to implement: you can "shun" some orc temporarily and it won't be recalled.

Reasons:

  1. Recall can be rather stupid sometimes and doesn't give you the army you want.
  2. Sometimes weaker orcs join you but you don't really need them.

To get the army they want, the player needs to use stairs, tell their followers to wait, go down and use recall. Except that point (a) strikes again, so you get to do the same thing over and over.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Saturday, 23rd December 2017, 19:15
by charlatan
Ideally I would want Orc followers to be managed by an inventory screen from which they are dismissed/recalled but I worry that without serious restrictions it would be too exploitable ("orc about to die? recall him" sort of thing)

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Tuesday, 26th December 2017, 16:35
by MainiacJoe
An interface that lets me set the order in which my follower orcs arrive when recalled would be sufficient, right?

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Wednesday, 27th December 2017, 04:25
by mattlistener
MainiacJoe wrote:An interface that lets me set the order in which my follower orcs arrive when recalled would be sufficient, right?


Why create an interface when we already know (roughly) what decisions the player would make using it? Instead, make Beogh's Recall prioritize targets based on HD.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Wednesday, 27th December 2017, 23:00
by Shard1697
It already does, it's just bad at it, and it doesn't differentiate between kinds of orcs, which is what I care the most about. I don't want casters, I want warriors, even if they're lower level, because I want to train them up to be warlords, because warlords with spears are better and less finicky than the caster orcs.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to

PostPosted: Thursday, 28th December 2017, 06:09
by VeryAngryFelid
There should be Orc Warlords with spells. Fragile casters don't work as permanent allies, nobody prefers them over Orc Warlords

Re: Give Beogh an ability to

PostPosted: Saturday, 30th December 2017, 20:52
by mattlistener
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Fragile casters don't work as permanent allies, nobody prefers them over Orc Warlords

...in which case this calls for a revision to the Recall ability, or targeted Dismiss, rather than the introduction of a UI that allows everyone to make the same choices.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Saturday, 30th December 2017, 23:37
by Fingolfin
But maybe right now I feel I am pretty strong and I want weak orcs to get the killing blow to level up.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Sunday, 31st December 2017, 02:19
by Shard1697
It doesn't matter if they get the killing blow

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Sunday, 31st December 2017, 04:58
by bel
Caster allies are fine in early game. At least I use them, so it's not true that everyone makes the same choices.

I am not clearly opposed to "orc warlords plus spells" but that is a more radical step with implications for game balance which I have not investigated. All I'm calling for here is a band-aid, not surgery.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Sunday, 31st December 2017, 07:09
by VeryAngryFelid
bel wrote:Caster allies are fine in early game.

I think it does not matter. Orc warlords are better early game too and it is still optimal to train more orc warlords for late game.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Tuesday, 2nd January 2018, 15:33
by njvack
Early-game, priests and wizards are better than vanilla orcs and probably warriors. They're also common so when they die, whatever.

The high-tier casters are in principle useful allies (their summons and damage are pretty okay) except:

* They're pretty uncommon and it's difficult to level base-tier orcs up to them, especially later in the game, so you don't want them to die
* They have poor defenses so they die real easily
* Ally AI is such that they try very hard to get themselves killed

I don't know what the best solution would be, honestly. Maybe make higher-tier caster orcs? Maybe change ally AI so that allied casters try to keep out of range of enemies?

Adding a "dismiss" feature just feels kind of like giving up.

Re: Give Beogh an ability to "dismiss" orcs.

PostPosted: Tuesday, 2nd January 2018, 21:42
by TheInsanity556
So just spitbllin here, but the big thing seems to be how much caster Orcs suck when you start to get rolling so its better to get warrior Orcs, maybe it would be better to buff the casters with more health and instead of summons, blink, and other party unfriendly spells you give them things like holy smite, like priests, or heasls and buffs that effect the war band. You could lower the rate of caster orcs to compensate for any unbalancing caused and make their power based on your invocation and piety and or cap the power. Mainly let them be more survivable and give them more party friendly spells.