The Tavern

Now that Gnolls are finalized (Gnoll version 3.0, DCSS v 0.21); this is how Demigods should have been made from start.
Gnolls are better than Demigods in (almost) all ways that makes any difference and to top it off they can choose a Deity.

I would be happier if current Gnolls > DG´s and Vice Versa. Oh, and Gnolls can keep their “Find Treasure” ability for themselves.
Any thoughts?

I know I'm in the minority on this but I really like demigod, I think they're pretty strong, and I play one almost every tournament. Gnolls are very strong as well of course. I don't see any specific point of comparison between the two beyond that; there's not really much more of a similarity between Gn and Dg than between Gn and Hu imo.

The two species don't look very similar to me. Gnoll is always a generalist in everything, while dg needs xp concentration in certain areas, that can be different from game to game, but still are fairly limited in number in a 3 runer.

Btw, I have changed my opinion from the past, and I like demigods now. I think that the MP bonus + bad spellcasting apt is kinda weird, though.

Gnolls have the second highest stat totals in the game, too. But mechanically, they're pretty different from DG so they feel fine to me. Reduce their stats to 8/8/8 instead of the current 10/10/10 maybe.

I'm not at all convinced that Gn is stronger than Dg. Gn is strictly better than Hu on D:1 and that's dumb as hell, yes, but Dg is also better than Hu on D:1 and in early game in general. I'd argue that Dg was also better than Hu during the rest of the game for many versions, but god worship has been buffed to levels that are frankly absurd.

Gn also is not "finalized" in any sense of the word. The blog post even stated there might be balance changes before 0.21 releases, and it's not like they won't change later either.

Gn of Okawaru is amazing due to Heroism and Finesse. You basically can have any 1h weapon at min delay in every fight when it matters. Dg is nowhere close IMHO. Good 1h weapons are rare but not for Gn who don't care about weapon class

Point taken, maybe it´s Deitys that make DG´s feel so far behind (personal opinion).

I felt Gnoll v.2 were better matches > Oka. With current iteration Oka throws masses of different ranged ammo on you.
Maybe that could be an incentive to group all ammo as one?

I don't get what's similar about Gnolls and Demigods beyond "their starting attributes are higher than humans".

Yeah I I probably should have used a better headline than "Gnolls are the new demigod".
Because when thinking about it afterwards I realized it wasn't the specific traits, it was how strong current Gnoll race (v.3) felt and the fact that they even get to chose a God where I felt DG`s as a whole are rather weak with no God. There are races that are weaker then DG´s, yes, but they all benefit from being able to choose a god.

In that sense I hoped if DG´s were made equally strong as current Gnoll they would stand a fighting chance even if they are handicapped by not having a god.
Others disagreed (or not) and I learned that nothing is final with the Gnoll species yet and that some god worshipping have become really strong lately which ironically leaves Demigods even further behind.

Anyways, hope that made it clearer.
Peace!

My take on demigods is you're basically giving up your god for increased hp and mana. Yes they have high stats, but it's really the hp/mana that has the most impact imho. High int and since the mana bonus is 20% vs only 10% for hp, and they're great casters who don't give up physical strength for it. Just that whole no god part.

So I would generally play a demigod as a caster who will later go into training melee. This is what all casters should do, it's just that demigods can actually get good at melee, whereas most mages use it much less. Gnolls are usually more outright jack of all trades characters, and can do a lot (all) things at once. I tend towards skald style builds but flexibility is really central; demigods have bad aptitudes so they need to focus on only a few skills at once.