Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some tweaking


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 4th December 2017, 07:48

Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some tweaking

It's probably off topic but I would change Centaur speed to normal instead. It's optimal to kite every normal speed monster via ranged weapon and no matter how good weapon and how many ammo you have it's really boring because of absolute safety.
Sp has similar problem but then you don't have huge HP/AC and cannot use longbow so at least monsters with ranged attack are dangerous late game.

Edit. Also as bel said above, we can just ignore the problem. I hope there are some players who like this play style.
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Post Monday, 4th December 2017, 18:41

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Mod note: Split to new thread
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 4th December 2017, 18:43

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Non-mod note: Also, Sp is faster than Ce, so while you can still kite basically the same number of things with the two species, it takes longer with Ce.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Monday, 4th December 2017, 21:03

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

I personally like having the option of playing fast characters.

I think maybe, they don't need to have such a stupidly strong synergy with bows in terms of aptitude - the fact they are fast already synergizes very well with ranged options.

Maybe make the a bit better at melee and a bit worse at bows specifically.

Sadly, this also seems to trend towards the homogenization that crawl seems to be tending to lately in terms of aptitudes.


Not a big deal either way. Centaurs are very good at kiting, but they are strong enough not to need to kite anyway. A Shield is also a good compliment to their meh defenses early on.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 06:14

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Making melee stronger won't help much IMHO. Typical CeBe/Fi chooses polearms and kites with spear which is probably even more annoying because of (hit, move, move, hit, move, move) pattern.
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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 06:54

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Is non-fast Ce a distinct species?

Mines Malingerer

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 08:21

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

If the problem we are trying to solve here is "cheesy tactic that is boring, but perfectly safe" wouldn't, say, merfolk be just as much at fault?
They can lure melee enemies to deep water and poke away from perfect safety. Or even cast mephitic cloud and drown those pesty orc warlords.

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 08:21

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

chequers wrote:Is non-fast Ce a distinct species?


I believe it is. Deformed body + barding + interesting aptitudes (-3 armour/dodging or +3 longbow for example). Naga has first two features too but it is very slow which changes a lot.
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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 08:22

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Tamiore wrote:If the problem we are trying to solve here is "cheesy tactic that is boring, but perfectly safe" wouldn't, say, merfolk be just as much at fault?
They can lure melee enemies to deep water and poke away from perfect safety. Or even cast mephitic cloud and drown those pesty orc warlords.


Most floors don't have water and many of those with water are full of flying/swimming monsters (Shoals/Swamps).
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Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 08:42

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Maybe give centaurs a "burst of speed" ability in the A menu, to preserve some of their flavor and mechanic, but not break the game entirely. Use it and it starts a cool down timer and gives the centaur a speed boost for X amount of turns for as long as the centaur keeps moving (so no hit move hit move BS, but just allows a dead sprint to safety). Give it a food cost similar to berserk. You could make it dependent on armour incumberance as well.

Would still be pretty powerful, but its not like the species are supposed to be balanced in the first place.

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 12:47

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Burst of speed (sort of) already is implemented with Ba.

Ce is built around kiting, probably after the idea of horse archery, which is pretty cool in theory, but actually results in a very bad dcss gameplay experience.

A fast race that is limited to melee would be interesting, positioning and whatnot, with limited wand charges as ranged. But then you have polearms. And spells, too.

The thing is, speed is really tricky, because it allows you either to kite, or to reset most fights. Both aren't fun alternatives.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 12:53

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

It is possible to kite with non-polearm melee too, it just involves even more attention paying than with polearms. Melee attack takes less than 1.0 turn with some training so players can calculate when then can attack without retaliation and retreat next turn.
This is why I believe there is no place for non-annoying fast species in current crawl.
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Post Tuesday, 5th December 2017, 13:07

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Ba hopping 4 tiles in one turn like a semi-controlled blnk is very different from a centaur speed boost where you have to move thru each tile turn for turn. The two species are radically different on other aspects as well. I dont see a problem there at all.

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Post Wednesday, 13th December 2017, 04:09

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

Centaurs might be the strongest species, which would be OK except I don't think they're popular with newer players like Minotaurs are.

Maybe Centaurs could be normal speed and get a super-Swiftness as an ability:
"Gallop" - instant, get 0.5 movement delay for 10 turns then -Swift (1.5 delay) for 30 turns

Dungeon Dilettante

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Post Wednesday, 20th December 2017, 18:46

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

In my opinion, this would would pretty much remove Ce as a played race. They *already* aren't all that popular, you know.

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Post Thursday, 21st December 2017, 09:44

Re: Make Ce normal speed (was: Drop rates still need a some

100% ammo mulch (or simply remove launcher ammo requirements) would make centaurs more popular.

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