Saving for low-level characters


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

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Lair Larrikin

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Post Sunday, 28th August 2011, 17:39

Saving for low-level characters

It probably has been suggested and passed on before, but I think a lot of people's biggest complaint (and mine) about the early game is the almost unavoidable deaths for novice players from OOD and general tough situations.

I was wondering if it had been considered to have a save option or a restart option for characters under level 5 (or whatever) in order to avoid doing the same level or two over and over for us less advanced players. Seems like it would open the game up for more people while still keeping the game hard and roguelike for the hardcore fan
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 28th August 2011, 17:47

Re: Saving for low-level characters

Yes this is requested from time to time. Won't happen. Play in wizmode if you want to keep playing after death.
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...

Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 28th August 2011, 18:51

Re: Saving for low-level characters

All has been said, but still some more words: the option to save would make your game worse, not better (because it is harder to learn from mistakes that way). Yes, it is true that the early game is hardest, but we're aware of it. The plain fact arises very naturally, as early on you have fewest tools to react and during a game you'll improve your set of options. Nonetheless, the last release gave every starting character 3 additional HP. This matters most in the early game and makes it that much easier.

The main points of roguelikes are, in my opinion, random content and permadeath. Both are crucial for the replayability the genre is known for. We won't sacrifice either.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 28th August 2011, 19:06

Re: Saving for low-level characters

You can already save if you feel like it by writing a batch file or cron job to copy the saves directory. I back up my saves on a flash drive to carry my dood to work an home. The default path in xp is my documents/application data/crawl/saves
(p.s. this is stupid some dev please make it not stupid) - minmay

Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 29th August 2011, 17:22

Re: Saving for low-level characters

Plus if you die, it is easy to restart. This is my strat, aka the Dumbadore strat of thowing enough untrained and woefully underpowered kids at problem until one of them sticks.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 30th August 2011, 13:56

Re: Saving for low-level characters

I've tried different save strats and it just isn't as much fun. I've got a 27 MiBe sitting at Zot entrance that lost his appeal because he is save spawn. Also have 5 other .cs files just wasting space that I'll never use again because it just isn't as fun. It was nice to do to help me get a feel for what a character can actually do, but it does feel a bit empty.

The only way I could see it not really hurting the game is if you have a couple "lives" available when going through in Hints Mode. I'm not sure if HM gives the same wins as regular, but I'm sure a flag could easily be added. It would give noobs the chance to progress a bit and get more hints without the need to restart hints mode 80 times (I know I ran in hints mode dozens of times reading the same hints over and over again trying to find new hints).
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 30th August 2011, 17:23

Re: Saving for low-level characters

bobross419 wrote:The only way I could see it not really hurting the game is if you have a couple "lives" available when going through in Hints Mode. I'm not sure if HM gives the same wins as regular, but I'm sure a flag could easily be added. It would give noobs the chance to progress a bit and get more hints without the need to restart hints mode 80 times (I know I ran in hints mode dozens of times reading the same hints over and over again trying to find new hints).


Lives ... you mean, kind of like a Felid?

Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 30th August 2011, 17:30

Re: Saving for low-level characters

Some kind of easy mode that doesn't give access to the full game could be interesting. 9 dungeon levels, four short branches (for example Temple, Orc, Lair with rune, Vaults with rune). One rune needed to get into Zot. No abyss, no portal vaults. Exp and piety gain are accelerated (like in Sprint, just not as much).

Alternatively an easy sprint level could help ease new players into the game.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 30th August 2011, 19:54

Re: Saving for low-level characters

Galefury wrote:Some kind of easy mode that doesn't give access to the full game could be interesting. 9 dungeon levels, four short branches (for example Temple, Orc, Lair with rune, Vaults with rune). One rune needed to get into Zot. No abyss, no portal vaults. Exp and piety gain are accelerated (like in Sprint, just not as much).

Alternatively an easy sprint level could help ease new players into the game.

There's the Crawl Light fork. It's just easier for now, but the plan is to make it shorter too.
Having easier sprint maps would be great indeed. I'd love to have a bunch of them sorted by difficulty.
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 30th August 2011, 21:14

Re: Saving for low-level characters

mumra wrote:
bobross419 wrote:The only way I could see it not really hurting the game is if you have a couple "lives" available when going through in Hints Mode. I'm not sure if HM gives the same wins as regular, but I'm sure a flag could easily be added. It would give noobs the chance to progress a bit and get more hints without the need to restart hints mode 80 times (I know I ran in hints mode dozens of times reading the same hints over and over again trying to find new hints).


Lives ... you mean, kind of like a Felid?


Kind of, but something that can actually use most items. Suggested hints mode because it really wouldn't affect the main game overall as there are only 3 classes to choose from and I'm sure most people stop playing it once they've read most of the messages multiple times.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

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