One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo


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Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 17th October 2017, 22:22

One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

How about removing all different ranged ammo types (since most flavors are removed anyways) and just call it ammo? Would free up some much needed space and get rid of the distinction between stone/sling bullets. Spells like Sandblast and Sticks to snakes would only require ammo then.
While at it merge Centaur/Naga Barding.

Also is there a thought out reason why the lowliest crossbow; the hand crossbow has a skill req of 10 with a dmg of 12 whilst Greatsling has skill req of 14 and only do 8 dmg?
Both are 1handed so it´s a pretty hefty difference. I´m guessing it has to do with Bolts being somewhat rarer than bullets? Maybe time to reevaluate the balance between the two?
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duvessa

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Post Tuesday, 17th October 2017, 23:04

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Hand crossbow has a min delay of 10, greatsling has a min delay of 7. All crossbows have high damage in exchange for a lower rate of fire.

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graffen69

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Post Thursday, 19th October 2017, 17:12

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Maybe my math is way off but in my book the Hand-crossbow beats Greatsling every time except when you have a truckload of Slaying bonuses.
Even then faster weapons usually requires less investment and in this particular case it´s the opposite but maybe that´s intended?

Anyways, still think Stone Bullets could be removed entirely though.
Last edited by graffen69 on Tuesday, 14th November 2017, 00:21, edited 9 times in total.
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Post Thursday, 19th October 2017, 18:26

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

I definitely think that unifying ammo would be a good thing. Less items lying around, less inventory space taken, maybe a chance to goldify them.

I don't know how much stones vs bullets matter. It's actually a very fiddly mechanic, and the reason why I avoid slings.
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Post Friday, 20th October 2017, 15:26

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Remove launcher ammo, balance launchers around 100% use.

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graffen69

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Post Friday, 20th October 2017, 16:33

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Shtopit wrote:I definitely think that unifying ammo would be a good thing. Less items lying around, less inventory space taken, maybe a chance to goldify them.

I don't know how much stones vs bullets matter. It's actually a very fiddly mechanic, and the reason why I avoid slings.


The inventory description tells you how much damage a sling does with bullet, which appears to be sling damage + bullet damage.
So I would infer that with a stone, the damage is sling damage + stone damage.
Stone damage is 2 less than bullet damage.

Then again this is just conjecture. Crawl mechanics are often weird so it could very well be that the difference between a sling with bullet or stone damage requires an astrophysicist to understand.

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Post Friday, 20th October 2017, 18:01

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Plantissue wrote:
Shtopit wrote:I definitely think that unifying ammo would be a good thing. Less items lying around, less inventory space taken, maybe a chance to goldify them.

I don't know how much stones vs bullets matter. It's actually a very fiddly mechanic, and the reason why I avoid slings.


The inventory description tells you how much damage a sling does with bullet, which appears to be sling damage + bullet damage.
So I would infer that with a stone, the damage is sling damage + stone damage.
Stone damage is 2 less than bullet damage.

Then again this is just conjecture. Crawl mechanics are often weird so it could very well be that the difference between a sling with bullet or stone damage requires an astrophysicist to understand.

Fwiw, the +2/-2 bullet stone is actually 2 points of base damage, that is to say before your stat and skill multipliers are applied to it. So your max damage is increased by somewhere between 2 and roughly 5 or 6 more damage / shot.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 21st October 2017, 02:22

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Have slings been nerfed in trunk? In 0.20.1 the fustibalus (formerly greatsling) does 12 base damage with bullets and 10 with stones.

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Post Sunday, 22nd October 2017, 22:28

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

I just noticed it on my current play through as well.
But that seems like a buff, not a nerf. Former Greatsling did 8 dmg according to DC wiki but yeah, the site is not updated to 0.20+ (in all honesty keeping up with latest DCSS changes is probably a 3man-team full-time work :P ).
That change actually makes it overall better balanced between all 1handed ranged weapons.

Are there any special cases where specific ammo must be used (other then for two spells mentioned above)?
I´m thinking I´m missing something obvious but maybe there are none? I guess needles could be a special case and large races could get a bonus damage to thrown ammo (instead of large rocks).
Last edited by graffen69 on Tuesday, 14th November 2017, 00:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Thursday, 26th October 2017, 13:38

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

I think in one of the patches, the sling and greatsling got +2 damage and the ammo damage got -2, so the total is the same.
Sling went from 5 to 7 and greatsling from 8 to 10.
Sling bullet went from 6 to 4, and stone went from 4 to 2.

But then Sling bullet gives +2 damage with a sling.

My understanding is that slings are exactly the same but throwing stones was nerfed.

Someone should really edit the wiki to reflect the change.

Edit: Actually it is a nerf isn't it? Before sling and greatsling with stone and bullet would have base damage 9/11 and 12/14, and now it is 7/9 and 10/12. Nevermind.
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Post Thursday, 26th October 2017, 15:30

Re: One suggestion, one question regarding Ranged Ammo

Maybe stones can stop being weapons, and be turned into a component only relevant for earth magic. Or use them instead of fruits for Fedhas, if food unification ever came to be.

What difference is there between different launcher skills right now? Do they significantly differ from a gameplay perspective?
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