Qaz & Allies


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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 7th September 2017, 16:55

Qaz & Allies

:mrgreen:

Do I really need to explain? :lol:

Ok, here we go.

Quaz is one of three gods (with Ru and Cheib) that sport a gradually heavier conduct, accompanied by a gradual increase of passive powers and the activation of new active abilities. Of these three gods, Ru is an outlier, because you can't backpedal on the sacrifices you made for him.

With Cheib and Quaz, you can backtrack. You lose power, and alleviate your conduct. However, you have little reason to do so with Cheib. There are two reasons for this, but they both burn down to: control. The positive aspect of Cheib's passive (pimp your apps) is fully under your control in its application: you control all Cheib-enhanced actions. Its conduct (slow) also doesn't trigger a mechanic beyond your control, like stealth failure and attracting all monsters on a level.

Quaz is the exact opposite. Your clouds appear randomly, and you have no control over them. This makes them far less reliable, and, in practice, less decisive (and fun) than Cheib's stat enhancement. And the racket triggers the stealth mechanic in a negative way, by which I mean that you attract an unknown quantity of monsters wherever you go, and you simply can't do anything about it.

Clouds also have the effect of killing your own allies. And I think that a trade could be worth doing. Disable the summoning school, make all elementals summoned by Quaz worshippers immune to clouds, cause Quaz worshippers to only summon elementals from other sources of summoning, and make Quaz clouds silent or only as loud as a melee attack. This would solve the self-destruction of god powers, and the fact that Quaz is currently the only god that rewards you if you waste piety. Magic mirrors could be like haste potions for Cheib, something that angers your god, but that you use as a calculated risk.

Option #2 is simply giving allies of Quaz worshippers cloud immunity.

I think we all agree that elemental force needs to change. The question is,"how"?

(the second question is, "who's gonna code this?", but that's for another day ;) )
I Feel the Need - the Need for Beer
3DsBe^Trog, 15DsFi^Ru, 3DsMo^Nemelex, 3FoHu^Gozag, 3TrAr^Oka, 3HOFE^Veh, 3MfGl^Oka, 4GrEE^Veh, 3BaIE^Chei, 3HuMo^Oka, 3MiWn^Qaz, 3VSFi^Ash, 3DrTm^Makh
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Friday, 8th September 2017, 15:40

Re: Qaz & Allies

I vote option number 2. It's simpler and makes more sense (thematically and in practice). The allies-> only elementals change could potentially be interesting but kinda seems like a pain.

And it shouldn't be that hard to code (this is a guess) since it's only one tag on allies.

We gotta keep the noise though.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 8th September 2017, 15:49

Re: Qaz & Allies

"Great oracle, as an avatar of the storm god I'm followed by destructive clouds everywhere I go. When I summon allies to fight for me, they're destroyed by my own energies. How can I ever prevail in my quest?"

"Know thyself."
Last edited by mattlistener on Sunday, 10th September 2017, 13:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 8th September 2017, 16:10

Re: Qaz & Allies

Option #3: remove and replace elemental force with some new ability that doesn't generate allies. There are a ton of other gods that provide allies, so this would provide an opportunity to make Qazlal more unique while also getting rid of the ally interaction problem. The hard part is coming up with a new ability that works well with the other things Qazlal does.

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 8th September 2017, 17:00

Re: Qaz & Allies

What about an active that increases the effectiveness of elemental damage? Spells in the four elemental schools get a spellpower bonus, elemental brands (incl vorpal as earth) get a damage bonus and the Qaz clouds become more damaging.
Won (26): Ce, DD, Dg, Ds, Dr, Gr, Gh, Ha, HE, HO, Ko, Mf, Mi, oldOg, Sp, Tr, Vp, VS; Fi, Gl, Mo, Hu, As, Be, AK, En, Cj, FE, IE, EE, Ar; Beo, Dith, Fed, Goz, Kiku, Lug, Makh, Nem, Oka, Pak, Trog, Veh

Dungeon Dilettante

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Post Friday, 8th September 2017, 19:41

Re: Qaz & Allies

Hellmonk wrote:Option #3: remove and replace elemental force with some new ability that doesn't generate allies. There are a ton of other gods that provide allies, so this would provide an opportunity to make Qazlal more unique while also getting rid of the ally interaction problem. The hard part is coming up with a new ability that works well with the other things Qazlal does.


I really like that, honestly. Qaz's ability doesn't feel like it should work with summons and necromancy, so "all allies are immune" seems overly-blanket. And since we have a "one powerful ally" god, and a "lots of weak allies" god, and a "demons on command" god, and a "corpses on command" god, and a "berserking ally" god, and a "random summons" god... elemental force always felt a bit flat. (And I'm being a bit hyperbolic - all those other abilities honestly feel pretty good, just elementals aren't all that exciting.) A power that sucked clouds in and temporarily improved your storm shield, or empowered your weapon with cloud-making, or left clouds in your wake as you walk away, or the ever-popular noise-dampening power all feel interesting, personally. (Granted, I'm not a huge fan of allies in any game, so I'm a bit biased, but I really like the noise aspect of Qaz, upheaval and disaster area feel great, just elemental force feels out of place, personally.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 9th September 2017, 06:17

Re: Qaz & Allies

The new ability might increase clouds area for some duration
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 11th September 2017, 20:09

Re: Qaz & Allies

I don't see a problem in giving the god abilty summons immunity to your own clouds. It's kind of strange that they do not automatically have immunity. I suppose an alternative would be that all Qazlal clouds generated would be converted into elementals for that duration.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 11th September 2017, 20:58

Re: Qaz & Allies

Just make a new "elemental" only for Qaz summons that has cloud immunity and changes flavor randomly between the four elements like killer klowns. Well you'll need to do something about stupid stuff like flying over lava as an air elemental and turning into a water elemental etc., but even if you don't do that it's a lesser problem than current, isn't it?
Won (26): Ce, DD, Dg, Ds, Dr, Gr, Gh, Ha, HE, HO, Ko, Mf, Mi, oldOg, Sp, Tr, Vp, VS; Fi, Gl, Mo, Hu, As, Be, AK, En, Cj, FE, IE, EE, Ar; Beo, Dith, Fed, Goz, Kiku, Lug, Makh, Nem, Oka, Pak, Trog, Veh

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 12th September 2017, 15:13

Re: Qaz & Allies

what if it was an ability where the clouds start spawning vortices for a short time
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 12th September 2017, 15:39

Re: Qaz & Allies

MainiacJoe wrote:Just make a new "elemental" only for Qaz summons that has cloud immunity and changes flavor randomly between the four elements like killer klowns. Well you'll need to do something about stupid stuff like flying over lava as an air elemental and turning into a water elemental etc., but even if you don't do that it's a lesser problem than current, isn't it?

An alternative would be to make elemental birds, exclusive to Qaz. With iridescent plumage that turns the colour of elements they momentarily control.
I Feel the Need - the Need for Beer
3DsBe^Trog, 15DsFi^Ru, 3DsMo^Nemelex, 3FoHu^Gozag, 3TrAr^Oka, 3HOFE^Veh, 3MfGl^Oka, 4GrEE^Veh, 3BaIE^Chei, 3HuMo^Oka, 3MiWn^Qaz, 3VSFi^Ash, 3DrTm^Makh
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 13th September 2017, 04:28

Re: Qaz & Allies

I take Qaz at least in part for the noise it generates....

Why? Uh, well, several reasons:

Pull stuff to strategic locations... like stairs so you can choose when to retreat, clearing partly cleared levels is then safer...
maximize potions and other buffs on bigger piles...
save turns when monsters come to you instead of needing to find them, saves food and gets a higher score...
there are lots of spells that synergise with larger quantities of enemies

and so on

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