Chei and potions of haste


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Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 01:40

Chei and potions of haste

Right now Chei will block the speed part of berserk effect be it intentional or not. But Chei won't block the effect of potion of haste. This fact makes carrying these potions under Chei viable. One can argue it could be an interesting decision whether it is worth it to incure penance and lose stats to escape a dangerous situation.
I think it's a bad option to have (I'd say a fake choice); the penance is quite harsh here.
I propose making potions of haste useless under Chei. (Maybe fully block intentional berserks too?)

Edit: grammar.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 29th July 2017, 19:13

Re: Chei and potions of haste

I was watching one of Ultraviolent4's videos and he was talking precisely about this and how 4tharraofdagon kept potions of haste as a Chei user to potentially escape a bad situation. If someone like him does that I imagine it's at least a worthwhile trade-off sometimes. Whether 4tharra thinks it's bad despite this is another story though, and I can't speak for him :p

Temple Termagant

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 03:14

Re: Chei and potions of haste

I think it adds an interesting decision without hurting the game. Even if it's bad most of the time, the player is made aware of this by the potion's name being in red. Although, I guess it's a little odd from a consistency standpoint.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 13:36

Re: Chei and potions of haste

From my POV, Cheib could ignore all non-renewable sources of haste or fast movement. It's still going to be difficult, even with 10 potions of haste and 4 potions of rage during a game. What ruins this proposition are renewable rage from the amulet and renewable swiftness from the spell, which need to be taboo or would make the god meaningless. So you would need a strange and unintuitive divide between potions and amulets + spells + boots to make this work, which isn't a good feature.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 18:46

Re: Chei and potions of haste

Celesta wrote:I think it adds an interesting decision without hurting the game. Even if it's bad most of the time, the player is made aware of this by the potion's name being in red. Although, I guess it's a little odd from a consistency standpoint.


Except it does hurt the game, but it circumvents the conduct. There should never be the option of viable Haste under Chei (in this case where the effect outweighs the penance).

The punishment is a rather flimsy way of enforcing a conduct that should not be optional in any way when you worship him.

That being said, if Chei only blocked Haste from movement changes and let everything else speed up (and do the same with Berserk), that would be interesting.

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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 00:51

Re: Chei and potions of haste

PowerOfKaishin wrote:There should never be the option of viable Haste under Chei (in this case where the effect outweighs the penance).


IIRC, the good gods don't stop you from casting Borg's; you just get penance. I don't see why hasting with Chei should be different.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 01:06

Re: Chei and potions of haste

Do good gods allow you to train necromancy?
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 14:54

Re: Chei and potions of haste

If penance weren't meant to ever be triggered by choice, why would it even be in the game outside of switching gods?

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 15:06

Re: Chei and potions of haste

I like the idea of being able to violate god conduct in order to save myself, such as Haste/Chei, Borgnjor/TSO.

If a player is prevented from breaking the rules, then that means the god controls the conduct, not the player. That would be quite strange.

If all gods automatically prevented all violations, then penance should be removed. At that point, maybe god-switching can be removed too.
Last edited by 4Hooves2Appendages on Monday, 31st July 2017, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 15:08

Re: Chei and potions of haste

watertreatmentRL wrote:Do good gods allow you to train necromancy?


I wizmoded up a character following TSO, and it appears that you can't. In the skills menu, you can choose to train necro but no skill points seem to wind up there; in fact, if *only* necromancy is selected it looks as though the XP is lost altogether, which seems like a straight-up bug? No piety loss or penance in this case.

On the other hand, when following Trog, you don't get a warning upon choosing a magic skill in the skills menu, but when you actually put XP into the magic skill, you lose piety. But you *do* actually gain skill.

*Learning* necromantic spells under TSO generates neither warning nor penance (though they're marked red in the memorization screen) though casting incurs penance.

Even learning a spell under Trog causes penance.

After this, I kind of feel like Chei can do whatever Chei wants. Maybe the moral of the story is "there is no more rhyme or reason to divinity in Crawl than there is in the real world."
Last edited by njvack on Monday, 31st July 2017, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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