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Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Sunday, 16th July 2017, 18:46by duvessa
nago wrote:* a much broader solution - which probably should be addressed in a specific topic: let all the gods' powers bypass racial restrictions, resolving this messy situation with all the problematic powers.
I would go the other way: don't let any gods' powers bypass racial restrictions. No potion petition for Mu, no Trog's Hand regeneration for DD.
Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Sunday, 16th July 2017, 20:23by Siegurt
Lavandula wrote:Sequell says that nobody have beaten the game as DD without divine healing since removal of yellow wands. I'm not sure if it's outright impossible, probably just blatantly grindy, defined by luck and plagued by backtracking.
!lg * sp=DD god=ash|chei|dith|fedhas|hepliaklqana|kikubaaqudgha|nemelex|oka|qazlal|uskayaw|xom|yredelemnulveh|sif|wu|zin|"" won 0.19|0.20|0.21
You're missing the | between yred and veh, also yred (technically) has divine healing.
I'm actually surprised that nobody has won a kiku game, vampiric draining was always my DDNe bread and butter, although it's quite possibly due to lack of interest rather than difficulty.
Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Monday, 17th July 2017, 06:18by Rast
Lavandula wrote:Sequell says that nobody have beaten the game as DD without divine healing since removal of yellow wands. I'm not sure if it's outright impossible, probably just blatantly grindy, defined by luck and plagued by backtracking.
It's quite possible, just need to find a mediocre vamp weapon before you run out of mana.
Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Friday, 21st July 2017, 23:04by njvack
nago wrote:a much broader solution - which probably should be addressed in a specific topic: let all the gods' powers bypass racial restrictions, resolving this messy situation with all the problematic powers.
Mod note: Here's the topic. I've tried to pull in relevant stuff from the other thread but it was all mixed and phpbb is not very good at this sort of thing.
Non-mod note: As a general design principle, I'm solidly in favor; I think god powers should override species' restrictions unless there is an extremely solid reason for them not to. But I'm more in favor of consistency than I am in either outcome.
Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Saturday, 22nd July 2017, 08:30by kuniqs
duvessa wrote:nago wrote:* a much broader solution - which probably should be addressed in a specific topic: let all the gods' powers bypass racial restrictions, resolving this messy situation with all the problematic powers.
I would go the other way: don't let any gods' powers bypass racial restrictions. No potion petition for Mu, no Trog's Hand regeneration for DD.
No health-on-kills for DD, too?
Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Saturday, 22nd July 2017, 11:21by 4Hooves2Appendages
kuniqs wrote:duvessa wrote:nago wrote:* a much broader solution - which probably should be addressed in a specific topic: let all the gods' powers bypass racial restrictions, resolving this messy situation with all the problematic powers.
I would go the other way: don't let any gods' powers bypass racial restrictions. No potion petition for Mu, no Trog's Hand regeneration for DD.
No health-on-kills for DD, too?
Health-on-kills doesn't contravene DD species restrictions, as it is not 'regeneration'.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Saturday, 22nd July 2017, 20:08by Sprucery
njvack wrote:I think god powers should override species' restrictions unless there is an extremely solid reason for them not to.
So should Okawaru be able to gift a plate to a Dr, who could then wear it?
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Sunday, 23rd July 2017, 11:07by 4Hooves2Appendages
No. It isn't Oka's power to allow species to use slots they can't normally use.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 13:38by monkeytor
I'd like to see undead able to worship TSO. TSO allows them to wield the ******-blessed weapon by means of personal intervention, but other weapons of holy wrath remain unwieldable. The character is flavoured as a "self-hating undead" who functions as a repentant but necessarily imperfect vessel of TSO's will, with the expectation of being mercifully destroyed after delivering the Orb.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 14:09by Majang
Sounds like you have to wrap your request inside a lengthy narrative to make the flavour work...
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 14:45by njvack
Sprucery wrote:So should Okawaru be able to gift a plate to a Dr, who could then wear it?
No, but if there were a god whose power was "you can wear items in restricted slots" then that god would allow Dr to wear plate and undead to wield HW.
I actually think maybe Oka should be able to gift plate to Dr, or that Oka would try to gift you a plate but then gift you nothing instead. Most Oka gifts are effectively useless to begin with.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 14:47by VeryAngryFelid
njvack wrote:I actually think maybe Oka should be able to gift plate to Dr, or that Oka would try to gift you a plate but then gift you nothing instead. Most Oka gifts are effectively useless to begin with.
If something is often useless, it's usually buffed, not nerfed. Oka is not Xom.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 15:51by johlstei
Let gargoyles worship Yred.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 16:27by njvack
VeryAngryFelid wrote:njvack wrote:I actually think maybe Oka should be able to gift plate to Dr, or that Oka would try to gift you a plate but then gift you nothing instead. Most Oka gifts are effectively useless to begin with.
If something is often useless, it's usually buffed, not nerfed. Oka is not Xom.
I just mean it's weird that going Op^Oka gives you a better chance of getting Bear Spirit than Hu. And unless I'm mistaken, that's how things work right now. This is super OT for my own thread :/
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Thursday, 27th July 2017, 00:50by monkeytor
njvack wrote:I just mean it's weird that going Op^Oka gives you a better chance of getting Bear Spirit than Hu. And unless I'm mistaken, that's how things work right now. This is super OT for my own thread :/
I would counter that worshipping Oka with an equipment-restricted species is a meaningful strategic choice to increase the chances of getting a decent hat/barding/whatever that would otherwise only be available via acquirement, shops, or the floor. It's a way to manage probabilities in your favor. The odds of getting bear spirit are low in any case, but the odds of a human getting a good helmet are much higher.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Thursday, 27th July 2017, 01:55by ion_frigate
monkeytor wrote:I'd like to see undead able to worship TSO. TSO allows them to wield the ******-blessed weapon by means of personal intervention, but other weapons of holy wrath remain unwieldable. The character is flavoured as a "self-hating undead" who functions as a repentant but necessarily imperfect vessel of TSO's will, with the expectation of being mercifully destroyed after delivering the Orb.
Has anyone come up with a good non-flavor justification for either restriction? I don't see why undead worshiping TSO or wielding holy wrath weapons is overpowered.
As for the flavor, personally I think letting undead worship TSO and wield holy wrath weapons opens up opportunities for
more flavor, not less - like the above.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Thursday, 27th July 2017, 05:06by VeryAngryFelid
njvack wrote:I just mean it's weird that going Op^Oka gives you a better chance of getting Bear Spirit than Hu. And unless I'm mistaken, that's how things work right now. This is super OT for my own thread :/
It depends on point of view. Once you got a good shield and hat as Op you start to be disappointed by Oka gifts while with other species you still may be gifted other awesome armor like gauntlets of war or +23 cpa.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Friday, 28th July 2017, 20:16by Reptisaurus
johlstei wrote:Let gargoyles worship Yred.
Yeah, I thought this post would be (sensible) stuff like this instead of a spoilery way to limit Deep Dwarves to only one god and to screw over mummies even more.
Re: Gozag shouldn't offer useless potions
Posted:
Saturday, 29th July 2017, 16:12by Vajrapani
Lavandula wrote:Sequell says that nobody have beaten the game as DD without divine healing since removal of yellow wands. I'm not sure if it's outright impossible, probably just blatantly grindy, defined by luck and plagued by backtracking.
!lg * sp=DD god=ash|chei|dith|fedhas|hepliaklqana|kikubaaqudgha|nemelex|oka|qazlal|uskayaw|xom|yredelemnulveh|sif|wu|zin|"" won 0.19|0.20|0.21
IIRC, jeanjacques won a DDAs^Jiyva in the 0.20 tournament that started worship on d:2, it's been done at least once.
http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/je ... 184309.txt
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Saturday, 29th July 2017, 16:16by Sprucery
Well, Jiyva does give you divine healing.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Saturday, 29th July 2017, 16:22by Vajrapani
Actually? I guess I never payed attention when I played with Jiyva. It only seemed good for eating my loot and having that insta-kill ability.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Saturday, 29th July 2017, 18:41by Siegurt
Vajrapani wrote:Actually? I guess I never payed attention when I played with Jiyva. It only seemed good for eating my loot and having that insta-kill ability.
Yeah he heals you when he eats your loot.
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Saturday, 29th July 2017, 20:38by Sprucery
If the wiki is correct:
Piety level *****: "Blob"
Cure Bad Mutations: Removes a randomly selected bad mutation. (8 MP, 200-400 Food, 15-23 Piety)
When your fellow slimes consume an item, you receive a piety/200 chance of recovering some HP. The amount depends on the price of the item. (Passive)
Re: Divine powers & species restrictions
Posted:
Monday, 31st July 2017, 07:47by 4Hooves2Appendages
Presumably some kind of combination of vamp weapon and various necromancy spells should be enough. Having a solid ranged attack and/or summons should help to...