Hell Effect Paralysis

[crate]

To avoid paralysis wear stasis every 20.0 aut to block possible hell effects, then you can take it off because hell effects can only happen every 20.0 aut (probably this should be fixed to be not spoilery and abusable).

[varsovie]

To avoid paralysis wear stasis every 20.0 aut to block possible hell effects, then you can take it off because hell effects can only happen every 20.0 aut (probably this should be fixed to be not spoilery and abusable).

You mean scramble it so hell effect happen every 15 to 25 turns (or 15 + 1D10)?

[some12fat2move]

You mean scramble it so hell effect happen every 15 to 25 turns (or 15 + 1D10)?

15 + 1D10 would be every 16-25 turns (a dice roll is always at least 1). 14 + 1D11 would be 15-25 turns. You could also weight the equation so that results closer to average are more likely - for example, 13 + 2D6, or 10 + 5D3.

[KoboldLord]

That is not a problem,when you know how to behave in dangerous situations.So,at the first turn when you see the Pan lord,you cast death's door.You semi-control tele to the rune.Obviously you are safe because its duration is longer than para.This tactic works in EVERY Hell Lord Chamber.That is a fact. Cut the rumours that you cant react to the threat because you cant actually avoid it.

Even if we pretend for a moment that this is a feasible solution, forcing every character to invest heavily in necromancy or wear a specific rare item is not in line with Crawl development philosophy. Random unsourced paralysis doesn't add anything to the Hell experience, and it has undesirable effects in rare cases. There seems to be a clear-cut argument for removal and none for keeping.

Of course, it isn't actually a feasible solution, because paralysis or confusion could then hit at the end of your Death's Door, at which point a lousy 4-level demon can finish you off. As minmay obliquely pointed out, using Death's Door at the opening of a fight in the one-in-a-thousand chance you'll get hit by paralysis is a breathtakingly stupid idea that actually increases your chance of death because you can't heal the much more common confusion status.

[TwilightPhoenix]

You can easy imagine situations when you are getting killed without chance of reacting like falling down from shaft to chamber full of vault-themed monsters like titans or stairs down in Orc4 when you see 10 orc priest at once and they all smite you with max dmg.

You can react to these. In fact, I believe it was recently added that you always get the first move whenever you enter a new level for the first time. So even if there's 30 Cerebovs in view after a shaft or stairs, you can at least try to do something (or simply go back up the stairs if applicable). Later entries to the level don't have that guarantee, but if you fled the level to begin with you knew what dangers lurked there already.

Or like flying over lava in abyss and fast quicksilver dragon in the same turn comes out from corner and casts dispelling.

You shouldn't be levitating over lava to begin with unless you either have no other choice or not levitating over lava is very certain to get you killed. Even then, the Quicksilver Dragon might not breath at you when it comes into view and if it does, it might miss or, if you have a shield get blocked. In fact, I'm not even sure a Quicksilver Dragon has max LOS breath range. But, if you can fix that one, you fix the whole "walk around a corner and get clubbed to death by an Ogre/eaten by a Hydra before you can react" issue.

So to avoid shafts train traps and doors.To avoid smite death always take blink scroll.To avoid lava drawn,dont fly over it,you have always choice to take another road.To avoid para wear amulet of stasis...Whenever you dont preventing the danger your fate is always somewhat related to RNG.Deal with it.

Shafts can be avoided by levitation and flight as well. Smite can be avoided in a rather ridiculous number of methods (Scroll of Fog, breaking LOS, hexing the monster, turning invisible, etc.). Drowning in lava (or deep water) is purely the fault of the player, whether they chose to move while confused next to it or went floating over it when they shouldn't. Paralysis from hell effects, which is the specific threat we're discussing here, not just any paralysis, happens purely at random with no possible way to react to it and the only answer is stasis. In fact, as Crate pointed out, it'd be optimal to swap to Stasis every 20 aut to avoid it, and that, as far as I understand, is not ideal in the least.

Additionally, hell paralysis is not interesting. Shafts, smiting, and lava all can create situations where good tactics and the right choices will see you survive, no matter how bad they get. Hell paralysis tends to happen at times where it doesn't matter because nothing is around you (or nothing that's a threat) or it pretty must insta-gibs you because you were taking out a threat, no matter how good or bad your tactics and choices were prior to that moment. It's really no different than getting one-shotted by a mechanical trap from full HP.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Even still, there's the issue that when you're not in danger, Hell might as well force feed you a Potion of Water. It'd have about the same effect.

[njvack]

@carbonbasedlifeform: Two things:

* Well, not Pan lords, because you don't get Hell effects in Pan.
* Pretty much any fiend can probably kill you in the duration of paralysis, and using ddoor for every fiend you find in Hell is... impractical.

[Galefury]

* Pretty much any fiend can probably kill you in the duration of paralysis, and using ddoor for every fiend you find in Hell is... impractical.

Your life is in your own hands again.
You are blasted with shrapnel.
You die.

[njvack]

I don't see people die from hell effect paralysis with full HP very often...actually I don't think I've ever seen it happen online, and certainly not after the duration change.

True, this. From my end, it's more of a "this seems needlessly un-Crawl-like to me" not "this is how you die in Hell." It's a tiny annoying splinter, not a compound fracture

[carbonbasedlifeform]

What if I deliver you morgue of char who died flying over lava and in the same turn quicksilver dragon was noticed and it dispelled my flight(even if it had dmsl on?)
What If I deliver you morgue of char who died due to priests smite ,in the the same turn it noticed them?
(I can produce more of these kind of retoric siuations if you want)
Will I be allowed to complain and asking for lowering probability of existance of these situations to 0?

No,these situations are extremly rare as you see so was that incident with max hp and para death in the same turn.As some1 already pointed that out,this might the first para-death at full hp in general so that shouldnt be so important. You must agree that smite,quicksilver dragon dispel,shaft, hell para effect were not supposed to destroy any tactic(except d-door or stasis because Im to lazy for answering curiozal implies that stasis is rare item and d-door is not effective) that you are using. We must deal with them or delete them all,what you suggest?

[ebarrett]

I'm pretty sure dispelling breath sets your current enchantments to expire on the next turn, instead of instantly removing them. And most "monster X did Y the turn I saw it" incidents are just stealth_reasons, really. Noise isn't in the game just to clog the engine with invisible calculations.

[carbonbasedlifeform]

I'm pretty sure dispelling breath sets your current enchantments to expire on the next turn, instead of instantly removing them. And most "monster X did Y the turn I saw it" incidents are just stealth_reasons, really. Noise isn't in the game just to clog the engine with invisible calculations.

What If I add impassable terrain around(or fogs),even then,blink wont save you in the next turn
I can add alarm trap to work for your imagination with priests

My point was about rareness,not mechanics anyway...

[TwilightPhoenix]

If you can fix getting smitten the turn you enter LOS of a priest, you fix all of the "get killed when you walk around a corner" deaths. That's not trivial to fix for something that's rare. Deaths by unresistable Hell paralysis is rare as well, but trivial to fix (at least in comparison).