The Tavern

There are some levels like Shoals that give you a message that they are noisy and sound won't travel as far, and others like Crypts where sound travels further.

I think one way to play-balance the Abyss a little better would be if high level characters make more noise there, and new ones less.

You might do this by making "noise" (by which I really mean, interest...) proportional to level. It would be ugly but could be very effective.

Another way to do it, which I like better for the stylistics of it, would be if the first time you kill an Abyssal Creature (however this is defined -- and no matter WHERE you do it) you get a message You sense the Abyss has taken an interest in you. Once that happens, Abyss crawling is like it is presently. Before that happens, if you get thrown into the Abyss, you get a message You feel unworthy of notice... for now. A lot of monsters show question marks and if you stay away you might stealth out of it ... as long as you don't get trapped or cocky and try to kill something.

A better way is to increase the number of Abyss levels and make the early ones a lot less deadly.

The obvious question is of course: Why?

I also agree with Rast, there are much better ways to adjust the difficulty than via noise/stealth.

Well, that's evident - at the moment if you have the misfortune to get Abyssed early it's the kiss of death, and the proposed change reduces that - but you'd still need clever play to get away with it.

Abyss:1 is already too easy for fast and stealthy characters. Making it easier goes against the anti-grinding philosophy unless there are additional changes to prevent Abyss farming.

Increased stealth won't help low XL characters in heavy armour.

Could you please clarify what you mean by 'early'? I think it will make the discussion easier.

I don't see the problem with early banishment resulting in a high chance of death. The game needs some lethal threats after all. (And abyss isn't even that lethal, but that's a different discussion.)

I would contend that getting banished is rarely a result of 'misfortune'. Instead it is usually the result of a mistake.

There are not many sources of monster banishment before Lair. Spontaneously I can only think of Erolcha, Ogre-magi and random distortion weapons.

Distortion wepons are avoidable, because most enemies that spawn with weapons are speed 10. So when you notice the weapon and you can't kill the monster reliably from range, then you can just walk away. (Later you can bump into spriggans with disto weapons, but by then the Abyss is no longer a lethal threat.)

Ogre-magi and Erolcha are a bit trickier, but banishment requires line of fire. That means it is often possible to stay out of harm's way. Using consumables here is usually necessary. Erolcha is actually very dangerous even without banishment.

Sonja can spawn with a distortion weapon, and has high speed. I usually use a hex wand to handle her, so it's not too bad. Sonja with a venom or draining short blade is very dangerous as well and she can also use curare needles, so I'm not sure if abyss is the biggest of the problems (same as Erolcha, who can simply kill you even if she doesn't banish you).

I agree, Sonja is dangerous either way, but the curare/distortion combo is quite nasty. I wonder what other uniques come with disto-weapons. Psyche sometimes does if I recall correctly.

Can Sigmund spawn with a disto-scythe?

no he cannot

yes he can

I like a good assertive argument.

Wow, I try really hard not to just be flat wrong about something like that, my apologies everyone

I realize that a LOT of the easy ways to get banished early have been taken out. I was actually thinking that if you make an early banishment more survivable, you get the leeway to throw a few more ways for it to happen back into the mix! I mean, too much "well that can't happen" can make for a dull game.

Ogre Magi no longer have banishment in any of their spell-sets. And for that matter, I can't remember the last time I ever saw one before Lair.