FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?


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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 3rd May 2017, 15:21

FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

OK. I know distortion is supposed to be a powerful brand with some powerful downsides. I mean, on 1/20 of hits it basically instakills monsters. So it's pretty good.

But when using it in melee (I just rolled up my first AK... maybe ever?)... it blinks monsters. All. The. Time.

Very occasionally, this is important (I can't take these yaks 2v1, but blinking them moves them out of my chokepoint! That centaur warrior blinked and can shoot me again!) but 99% of the time it means I'm staggering around the dungeon trying to finish off this @#$! yak and NOW IT'S FIVE FRIGGIN' SPACES AWAY AGAIN.

I can kind of see, for non-Lugonites, the argument that the cost of "I can basically never swap weapons" is not enough to offset the power of disto (I would argue that it is enough, but hey) but if you're following Lugonu, you can just swap to a non-disto weapon when you want to not blink someone.

So! Can Lugonu suppress that? Pretty please? I'd argue that it'd be fine if disto didn't do it at all, but whatevs on that point.

PS: Teleportation isn't so bad, as you can generally consider the fight over and go back to what you were doing.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 3rd May 2017, 15:38

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

njvack wrote:OK. I know distortion is supposed to be a powerful brand with some powerful downsides. I mean, on 1/20 of hits it basically instakills monsters. So it's pretty good.

But when using it in melee (I just rolled up my first AK... maybe ever?)... it blinks monsters. All. The. Time.

Very occasionally, this is important (I can't take these yaks 2v1, but blinking them moves them out of my chokepoint! That centaur warrior blinked and can shoot me again!) but 99% of the time it means I'm staggering around the dungeon trying to finish off this @#$! yak and NOW IT'S FIVE FRIGGIN' SPACES AWAY AGAIN.

I can kind of see, for non-Lugonites, the argument that the cost of "I can basically never swap weapons" is not enough to offset the power of disto (I would argue that it is enough, but hey) but if you're following Lugonu, you can just swap to a non-disto weapon when you want to not blink someone.

So! Can Lugonu suppress that? Pretty please? I'd argue that it'd be fine if disto didn't do it at all, but whatevs on that point.

PS: Teleportation isn't so bad, as you can generally consider the fight over and go back to what you were doing.

Change tab to hit_closest_nomove (or use shift tab) and quiver something to throw (stones as a worst case) put 5 ish points into throwing.

Suddenly blinking becomes free damage instead of annoying in those cases that annoy you.

Blinking effects from distortion are largely a benefit, and for the cases when you don't want it (e.x. centaurs) lug lets you switch to a non distortion weapon.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 3rd May 2017, 16:58

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

Blinking effects from distortion are largely a benefit, and for the cases when you don't want it (e.x. centaurs) lug lets you switch to a non distortion weapon.

Being able to switch away from distortion is a big perk. Suppose though it isn't ^Lugonu, so you're decided to commit to a distortion weapon for the foreseeable future. I think Evocations is better than Throwing for wield-less melee types, would you agree?
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Post Wednesday, 3rd May 2017, 17:14

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

Blinks tank your per aut damage output. Without them, you would rarely see a monster that can last enough hits to teleport. You have a straight damage brand strictly superior to electrocution that scores instant KOs.

There's a better argument to remove the teleportation effect, since its main difference from banishment on a per-encounter basis is the delay and the possibility of teleport into line of sight, which is essentially a blink. Teleportation is also bad from an interface perspective: The fact that teleportation has proc'd is easy to miss just looking at the map and HUD, which makes the messages much more important if you need maximum control over an encounter. Reading messages, I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone, is bad. Of course, this could be addressed through some kind of status indicator on monster tiles.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Wednesday, 3rd May 2017, 18:17

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

Teleport/banishment on hit is also item destruction, which is pretty tedious to play around. Imo disto should be removed or seriously reworked (maybe merged w/ chaos and stripped of the most annoying effects)

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 09:56

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

I remember having it once on a quickblade. I eventually finished the game with it but swore I'd never use disto again, it was so fucking unbearably annoying.
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 13:53

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

It's a lot less annoying (and stronger per AUT) with a polearm.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 16:51

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

If we're going to get mobs blinking around randomly, then let's take it up a notch: perhaps we could remove the tele and banish from disto brand, and instead have blink proc more often. It would mean you'd rarely be surrounded, which would be god/bad depending on what sort of stuff you were fighting. Certainly more chaotic, especially if you add in your own blink to the mix. Could make for some curious tactics, idk. I'd still hate it, ofc.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 17:42

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

Do you get EXP when a monster is banished by distortion?

Are they actually moved to the Abyss directly? Or is there just some chance of encountering them (and by extension, their loot)?

In case this is unclear:
You banish Erolcha with your distortion weapon, while she was wielding a dazzling scythe.
If you grind the Abyss for the rest of your life, will you inevitably find the randart? Or is there some chance of it being irretrievable?

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 18:08

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

scott9027 wrote:Do you get EXP when a monster is banished by distortion?


Yes, I believe it is some flat amount of its base XP (50%?) plus an amount based on how much damage you had done before it got banished (times the remaining fraction, 50%?).

scott9027 wrote:Are they actually moved to the Abyss directly? Or is there just some chance of encountering them (and by extension, their loot)?


Some combination of the two, yes. (I believe they have a chance to appear at any time on the appropriate Abyss floor, usually 1. If you wander on that Abyss floor long enough, you'll eventually encounter them.)

scott9027 wrote:In case this is unclear:
You banish Erolcha with your distortion weapon, while she was wielding a dazzling scythe.
If you grind the Abyss for the rest of your life, will you inevitably find the randart? Or is there some chance of it being irretrievable?


Yes, I believe you will eventually find Erolcha with that weapon (provided your life is long enough, which is not to say it's particularly slow on average).
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 18:39

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

It looks to me as though yes, all banished monsters go to the abyss unless they were pacified, in which case they drop their gear and are just gone.

oh wow oh wow oh wow monster_die() is something else

So technically banishment is not item destruction.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 19:28

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

njvack wrote:It looks to me as though yes, all banished monsters go to the abyss unless they were pacified, in which case they drop their gear and are just gone.

oh wow oh wow oh wow monster_die() is something else

So technically banishment is not item destruction.
You're missing that monsters in transit are not actually guaranteed to appear in Abyss. Unless the monster is a unique, it and its inventory are probably going to be destroyed.
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 21:03

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

duvessa wrote:You're missing that monsters in transit are not actually guaranteed to appear in Abyss. Unless the monster is a unique, it and its inventory are probably going to be destroyed.

Well, that's silly. Both of those things sounds like bugs to me.

Of course, monsters could drop their inventory on banishment...

yes I know this is getting super OT and I am a mod and making it worse
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 4th May 2017, 23:50

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

It is absolutely not a bug. The behaviour is completely 100% intentional.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 5th May 2017, 06:17

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

duvessa wrote:It is absolutely not a bug. The behaviour is completely 100% intentional.


In my experience, the working-as-designed not-bugs are much worse than actual bugs.

For example, at my job we recently noticed that if a user has both a low ranking role and a high ranking role on the same profile, features which are restricted to high ranking roles are unavailable to the user. The devs have explained that low ranking roles are not supposed to have access to those features and the system is working as designed.

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Post Friday, 5th May 2017, 06:19

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

pedritolo wrote:If we're going to get mobs blinking around randomly, then let's take it up a notch: perhaps we could remove the tele and banish from disto brand, and instead have blink proc more often.


Why? When I intentionally equip distortion weapon without Lugonu, I do it because I hope to get teleport/banishment effects, not just a bit of damage (stabbers, casters, low HP fighters). With Lugonu it makes even less sense since you can freely swap to another weapon if you don't want teleport/banishment effects.

tl/dr Current distortion is great: unique advantages, unique disadvantages, unique playstyle.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 5th May 2017, 16:41

Re: FR: Can distortion not blink monsters under Lugonu?

Oh I'm perfectly fine if it stays that way. I agree, it's quite unique. I hate it, but I'm sure others will like it.
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