Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?


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Lair Larrikin

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 14:13

Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

I don't think I've seen this suggestion anywhere, so I have a couple of simple, unfleshed out race ideas that would allow for use of HP as a way to cast spells, if the concept isn't OP'd (don't really see how it would, but I wouldn't know :P)

1. A humanoid with medium-low HP and medium-low MP amounts, that can cast from HP and boost the power and success of spells should they choose to cast from HP.

2. A pure-energy form where HP and MP are drawn from the same pool, which would be a total of a low HP and low MP amount (probably not to be affected by outside means of regeneration). Kind of like a living amulet of guardian spirit.

Of course, they both lean towards casting, but I feel like the second idea could more easily work as a melee fighter than the first.

Good/bad idea?

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 14:56

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

2. A pure-energy form where HP and MP are drawn from the same pool, which would be a total of a low HP and low MP amount (probably not to be affected by outside means of regeneration). Kind of like a living amulet of guardian spirit.

I like that :)
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 15:27

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

Would work well for a treant race or a djinn race
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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 15:28

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

That's a cool idea, maybe you could call them archons? :P

Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 17:55

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

To be honest, I think casting from HP would be more interesting as a god-given power.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 17:57

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

betamin wrote:That's a cool idea, maybe you could call them archons? :P




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Lair Larrikin

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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 18:40

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

^^ Ha! You guys got me :P
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Post Monday, 15th August 2011, 19:37

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the basic mechanism. We have sublimation of blood after all. But what's the flavour?
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Wednesday, 17th August 2011, 15:02

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

Glad there's some approval :D
Alright, here's a rough sketch for an Archon-based race! Suggestions/anything that needs to be added that I haven't are cool :)

Race: Archons

Description:
A floating torso, brimming with magical power which is also their lifeblood. They are agents of the good gods created on the mortal plane due to the sacrifice of two or more good-aligned wizards for a greater purpose, but are given the gift (or curse) of free will to choose who to worship during their descent into the mortal realm. However, being borne from good, they inherently refuse to worship evil gods. On a similar note, being borne from wizards grants them a great deal of magical familiarity, save for the dark arts of Necromancy and, to a lesser extent, Poison Magic. They are highly intelligent, but they are unfamiliar with certain aspects of the mortal realm; they know how to use weapons, but don't know how to use weapons.

Stats:
Low HP/MP (maybe around Deep Elf Wizard levels), but are combined due to the Bond with magic mutation
Generally speaking, Low Str, High Int, Low-to-Med Dex

Mutations:
- Bond with magic (HP is shared with MP)
- Resists Poison
- Resists Electricity
- Levitation and Control Flight
- Doesn't need to eat
- Rot/Mutation/Sickness immunity
- Glowing aura (similar to a weaker TSO aura; everybody can hit you easier, but you can hit everybody else easier. Increases with level. Worshipping TSO will not stack auras, but will only count the strongest aura)
- Armor fits poorly on the misshaped body
- Distrusts other sources of magic (can't evoke evocable items)

Restrictions:
Armors
- Can't wear boots
Religion
- Can't worship evil gods.
- Can't worship Fedhas (archons are unnatural)

Skills:
Fighting: +1
Short Blades: -2
Long Blades: -2
Axes: -2
Maces & Flails: -2
Polearms: -2
Staves: -2
Unarmed Combat: -2

Throwing: -2
Slings: -2
Bows: -2
Crossbows: -2

Armour: -4
Dodging: +3
Stealth: -2
Stabbing: -2
Shields: -2
Traps & Doors: +3

Fire Magic: +1
Ice Magic: +1
Air Magic: +1
Earth Magic: +1
Poison Magic: -2

Spellcasting: +4
Conjurations: +1
Hexes: -1
Charms: +3
Summonings: 0
Necromancy: -3
Translocations: +3
Transmutations: +1

Invocations: +2
Evocations: 0

Edit 1:
Removed magic mapping mutation, added poor armor fitting and anti-evocable items mutation, changed stealth, stabbing, and invocations skill
Last edited by Joehai on Wednesday, 17th August 2011, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

Blades Runner

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Post Wednesday, 17th August 2011, 16:36

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

A couple points/questions

1) Why the +1 fighting apt? Where is that coming from? (certainly not their wizardly or "good" divine heritage.)
2) Similarly, why the +2 stealth apt? I would imagine that a race that inherently glows is going to have a hard time picking up stealth skills.
3) As "agents of the good gods", I would expect a very strong invocation apt.
4) Have you considered how this race would behave with respect to amulets of guardian spirit, rings of magical power, going berserk, and other things that modify either HP or MP totals?
5) What's the rationale for disallowing helmets? Do they have horns or something? Similarly, although "Armor fits poorly" mutation seems reasonable (no legs, etc.), not sure why body armor in general would be disallowed (though it's probably moot, as the race is so heavily biased toward spellcasting that armor builds seem unlikely.)

Overall, I think there are a *lot* of positive benefits, with little to no disadvantages, for a spellcaster.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Wednesday, 17th August 2011, 18:37

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

1) Why the +1 fighting apt? Where is that coming from? (certainly not their wizardly or "good" divine heritage.)

More from bookish knowledge than anything. They know about fighting but they don't know how to fight (sort of like the skillset of an Ogre spellcaster)

2) Similarly, why the +2 stealth apt? I would imagine that a race that inherently glows is going to have a hard time picking up stealth skills.

Good point, will change that. I left that there because the glowing mutation was the last thing I added.

3) As "agents of the good gods", I would expect a very strong invocation apt.

Got a good point there as well. Raising it to +2 would tie it with Demonspawns, who also have a connection to gods save Demigods, although in the evil respect.

4) Have you considered how this race would behave with respect to amulets of guardian spirit, rings of magical power, going berserk, and other things that modify either HP or MP totals?

- GS: "You feel something move through your very being, then leave."...it already acts as a guardian spirit unto itself, so GS doesn't work for Archons.
- Going berserk: "You feel magic flowing around you slightly faster. You shrug it off."...no blood for blood rage, so Berserk does not work for Archons.
- Magical Power and Staff of Power: "You feel more alive!"...these items get half bonuses at MP levels over 50, so I think the same rule should apply here.
- Regeneration/Rings of Regeneration will not work...regeneration seems to be like Wolverine-style healing, and Archons don't have what you would call flesh. If there were a way to regenerate magical power though (ring of energizing? we can only dream!), I think that would work, but that time isn't now :P

Other than that, I don't really recall other ways to gain HP or MP besides berserking, and as mentioned before that doesn't work.

5) What's the rationale for disallowing helmets? Do they have horns or something? Similarly, although "Armor fits poorly" mutation seems reasonable (no legs, etc.), not sure why body armor in general would be disallowed (though it's probably moot, as the race is so heavily biased toward spellcasting that armor builds seem unlikely.)

Nah, it's because I was thinking that stuff like helmets would disrupt magical flow, or some other flavor-based reason. They don't really have any physical reason for disallowing helmets, so yeah *shrug*. Similar story for armor. Also, I couldn't decide whether Archons had heads or a formless flaming spout where the head would be (like the headless horseman).

For consistency's sake, I think that I'll stick with the Archon with a head, and allow armors and helmets. I'm definitely going to add the "armor fits poorly mutation", though, it's a good idea even if I went with a headless Archon image. However, the Armor skill is going to stay the same, you're going to have to work for the right to wear armor :P

Overall, I think there are a *lot* of positive benefits, with little to no disadvantages, for a spellcaster.

The big disadvantage would be potentially dying a lot faster due to using a singular (relatively small) pool of energy for both casting and living. It's mostly centered around that balancing act. A thing I was considering was to disallow use of evocable items (because Archons don't trust any form of magic other than their own ;) ), and if this idea gets to that point of unfairness I think that adding that would be fair :)
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Wednesday, 17th August 2011, 18:59

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

Are they living beings or should they have rN and rTorment?

I can see this species loving Sif Muna. Hungerless channeling means they can quickly heal themselves whenever.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 18th August 2011, 03:48

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

Anti-magic stuff should have some really nasty effects on them. Like, hurting their HP and MP at the same time, therefore killing them faster. And maybe also paralyzing them.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Thursday, 18th August 2011, 08:02

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

How about an inate guardian spirit amulet, but only ever a ridiculously small number of hitpoints (1 per level)
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 18th August 2011, 12:53

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

TwilightPhoenix wrote:Are they living beings or should they have rN and rTorment?

I can see this species loving Sif Muna. Hungerless channeling means they can quickly heal themselves whenever.


Regarding rN and rTorm: That's more for undead creatures, and archons are more "good unliving" creatures than anything...I think it can be explained away with the fact that, despite having an unnatural corporeal being, Archons can still be affected by the mental anguish bestowed upon by torment and other dark magics.

And true, Sif Muna Channeling would probably make resting go by a little faster and add to the HP/MP pool in a pinch. According to the formula in learndb, I think the maximum MP that you can get back in a single channel is 8, which is essentially a potion of healing. Small potatoes (and indefinitely useful) when fighting against weaker enemies, but you still have to watch yourself against harder hitting enemies.

pratamawirya wrote:Anti-magic stuff should have some really nasty effects on them. Like, hurting their HP and MP at the same time, therefore killing them faster. And maybe also paralyzing them.


Fair enough, so maybe 2 to 3 times the normal damage done to them. Antimagic seems to be a fairly rare brand, and should therefore pose somewhat of a risk by the time you face off against monsters generated with those kinds of weapons. Of course, wielding them should reduce your HP/MP pool by 2/3, as per the current antimagic wielding rules. Finally, as for paralyzing them...a little much don't you think? :P They'll get crushed pretty quickly as is!

RFHolloway wrote:How about an inate guardian spirit amulet, but only ever a ridiculously small number of hitpoints (1 per level)


Maybe that aspect could be added to the current amulet of guardian spirit. From what I heard, it could use a boost :roll:

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 18th August 2011, 18:20

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

The basic idea is interesting, but I think you're trying to do too much (and taking too much inspiration from starcraft). I'd say take out the rElec since it already has plenty of benefits, and flavor-wise I see electricity as being the element closest to "pure" magic. I'm also not sure about the TSO glow and rot resistance (think of it as a deterioration of their magical form if you prefer), since they're already restricted on gods and you're making 2 of the ones they could go with less worthwhile.

I might actually even give them rN-, since no race to my knowledge has that, and it makes sense to me that an energy being made of good would be weak to negative energy. Antimagic shouldn't do more than 75% extra damage though, to keep it in line with other brands and because you might not know they have the brand until they hit you with it.

As for aptitude, turn fighting to -1, T&D to 0, charms, summoning and translocations to +1. Your explanation for fighting is unsatisfactory, and going the "ogre spellcasting" route feels more like just throwing an extra idea in there. And if you're going to give them magic aptitude be more consistent about it. I understand the hexes penalty, since that build is more about stabbing, but why the above average bonus for charms and translocations?

Lastly, a minor note on not being able to use evocable items: saying your character simply refuses to use them because he "distrusts it" seems arbitrary when the character has no personality whatsoever besides what the player gives it. If you want to go that route, I'd explain it as the archon's innate magic is simply incompatible with such artificial magic.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 18th August 2011, 19:13

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

Joehai wrote:And true, Sif Muna Channeling would probably make resting go by a little faster and add to the HP/MP pool in a pinch. According to the formula in learndb, I think the maximum MP that you can get back in a single channel is 8, which is essentially a potion of healing. Small potatoes (and indefinitely useful) when fighting against weaker enemies, but you still have to watch yourself against harder hitting enemies.


True, but have you ever had an infinite supply of healing potions before? You could just blink around a corner and, at eight HP per turn, recover a lot of health before the enemy catches back up to you. That's way more powerful than Regen 3, which as we can see with Trolls is pretty darn good.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 19th August 2011, 14:55

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

minmay wrote:I don't see many people using guardian spirit + Sif Muna channeling for that purpose, so I doubt this would be an actual problem.


That's because people's MP are generally much much smaller than their HP, so it's very easy to drain the pool leaving you unable to cast spells. And if you're not going to cast spells, you don't take Sif Muna. This race would have a pool easily double or triple the next largest mana pool.

A better example would be guardian spirit + staff of channeling, for e.g. a berserker. In this case, I think it's primarily that the spirit/channeling combination consists of two items that you can't expect to get in combination before you've got better options available to you.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 19th August 2011, 18:57

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

minmay wrote:I don't see many people using guardian spirit + Sif Muna channeling for that purpose, so I doubt this would be an actual problem.


But those people don't die when their mana pool hits zero.
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Post Friday, 19th August 2011, 19:24

Re: Races Suggestion: Cast from HPer?

galehar wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with the basic mechanism. We have sublimation of blood after all. But what's the flavour?


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