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Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 17:05
by Floodkiller
Siegurt wrote:Can you sacrifice armour/dodging/evocations with ru?
Good question, I'll bring it up in crawl-dev for discussion when I'm off of work. I'm not quite sure if it makes sense to ban Arcana sacs and not the other "sacrifice a skill" options.
Edit:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:underhound.eu still has old gnolls with 7 everything and +3 aptitudes. How long does it usually take to update trunk?
It's usually whenever anyone with rebuild rights for the server finds out and find a rebuild, so I'm not sure for underground.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 19:15
by Factorialite
I imagine Okawaru will be very powerful with this iteration of Gnoll, which isn't a bad thing (Okawaru is broadly good), but may play with skills in a way that is against the design goals of the Gnoll.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 21:45
by 4Hooves2Appendages
I don't really see what makes Oka extra powerful here. It'll still be weaker than the usual suspects.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 21:57
by Alphaeus
Things I see from running this build so far --
1) Getting higher lvl spells, weapons, armor, etc. at usable skill levels will be hard because of the diverse training. When you're training ALL skills and their ALL at lvl 14, things move slow.
2) Chei is a decent combo because the stat boosts make more things compatible with your limited skills, particularly on the spellcasting side of things.
3) Transmuter looks good because you're automatically picking up the requisite skills in Poison, Ice, etc that support alternate forms.
4) Super focused builds (like, say, Necromancer of Kiku) will suffer because there will be a point where upper-level focused skills will be lagging behind what a player that can focus 60%+ of their XP into their key skills could achieve.
I'm sure there are more details, but that's it for now. I like the general feel, though. Works nice.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 22:14
by luckless
Alphaeus wrote:Things I see from running this build so far --
3) Transmuter looks good because you're automatically picking up the requisite skills in Poison, Ice, etc that support alternate forms.
yeah, my prediction is that Transmutation and its supporting skills (unarmed, etc.) might need to be among those with somewhat lowered aptitudes.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 22:20
by Alphaeus
luckless wrote:Alphaeus wrote:Things I see from running this build so far --
3) Transmuter looks good because you're automatically picking up the requisite skills in Poison, Ice, etc that support alternate forms.
yeah, my prediction is that Transmutation and its supporting skills (unarmed, etc.) might need to be among those with somewhat lowered aptitudes.
The thing is, with this iteration of Gnolls, I don't see it being logical to penalize any individual skills, because all that will do is push it to be advanced into ANOTHER skill area. Besides, even dropping Transmutation to +6 would leave it drastically enhanced.
On the flip side, the upper-end complications of this design would limit your top-notch transmutation spells, to some degree. I don't see Gnolls feasibly casting Necromutation, for example, until MUCH later in the game. Dragon Form is probably the highest you could get by mid-game (rings of Wiz and other boosters aside).
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 22:56
by Hellmonk
Well you don't really want to cast necromutation in the midgame so...
e: ontopic, I'm looking forward to giving this iteration a try. I imagine that the current numbers are "too good" for winrate play but they're still gonna be weaker than DD,Ce,Tr so I don't think it's that huge of a deal.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Thursday, 28th September 2017, 23:20
by yesno
rename gnolls to dogtaurs
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 00:18
by chequers
I don't think Oka will be good because gifts will be unfocused, and I don't think Tm will be good because you will never get good UC skill, so weapons are better.
But this a very radical re-imagining of how Crawl's skill system can work. It's lots of fun, and great work getting this into vanilla rather than a fork!
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 00:55
by Hellmonk
I don't think Oka's gifting will be that much worse, since you can switch to whatever weapon type you're gifted without having to "waste" exp. Heroism and finesse are always relevant and heroism is especially nice when you can't get high levels of skill easily (though gnolls also can't stop training 5 levels before mindelay to conserve exp later). Oka won't dethrone the standard op picks but I'd expect Gn^Oka to be a popular choice and reasonably strong.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 12:49
by Majang
Aptitudes of +8 sounds very strong to me, even if spread out over all 31 skills. In terms of individual skill growth it (roughly) equals training 15 skills at +4, and eight skills at 0 aptitudes. That is not particularly slow going, and you get everything for it. As someone who does not mind training 10 skills simultaneously, this gives me an awesome character to play with. I'll give it a try as soon as I can.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 14:20
by Majang
Obviously, I couldn't resist and started, although I really have something else to do. Here are some early observations:
- I started as an EE up to level 10 for now, and sandblast starts out with a strong #### spell power. Stone Arrow becomes immediately castable at level 3, with ### spell power. Even LRD is at 22% failure rate when you get it. Whatever you meet, dies to you at once.
- Having all skills grow means that you have tons of survival options. Any weapon can be picked up, and wands, launchers and evocables are immediately useful.
- This makes inventory management more of a bother than with any other species. All items are potentially useful, so on what basis do you throw away things?
- Skill grow feels very slow in the beginning, but the later I get into the game, the less I am bothered by it. It indeed feels not different to what I do usually with my broad skill training.
So far I don't know what this game means for reaching my beloved level 9 nukes. I suspect I can get them ready as usual, at about reaching the lower levels of the Depths, but this time with a much more rounded character.
To be continued.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 19:46
by Blomdor
I love the New Gnoll! I tried them out last night, and while the character ended up splatting stupidly in Crypt, that is my fault and does not reflect poorly on the species. It actually was not difficult to get there.
There is something greatly satisfying in being able (and encouraged) to use whatever the dungeon sees fit to give you. Found "Zephyr"? Go collect some arrows and shoot stuff down. Trident of the Octopus King? Not bad. Earth magic spellbooks? Hey look, you can cast Stone Arrow in crystal plate!
It is *really* cool and a refreshing change from playing the same sort of brainless melee bruiser that I always run with. Actually, a big part of my downfall was that I was still trying to play that way and not paying enough attention to other options. They're naturals with Okawaru; with heroism, not only are you competent at doing everything, you become actually pretty good at it! The unfocused nature of his gifts actually becomes something of a strong point, because you don't care whether he gives you an eveningstar or a longbow - you can use either one if it's a good weapon.
Skill advancement does seem to become very slow at around the 14 mark. I noticed that manuals are apparently still effective, but the bonus doesn't really seem to cause a particular skill to rocket ahead of the others at least at higher levels, and by the time I splatted my Manual of Armour had only pushed my Armour skill to about 1 level ahead of the average as I recall. But 14 skill is enough for mindelay on quite a number of different weapons, and enough to use a fair number of spells reliably, so it does not feel like a horribly crippling thing. You're a true jack of all trades. It's certainly different from other species, that's for sure.
Edit: Majang reminds me that inventory management was a bother, but I refuse to lay the responsibility for that on gnolls. Inventory management is always a bother no matter what species you are, with the possible exception of felids.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 20:19
by Croases
I'll agree that the species is considerably stronger than its previous iteration, and in my opinion much more fun to play (although I regret not finishing a proper GnVM^Chei challenge). The new version is good at everything during both early and late game, you never truly fall off because experience is plentiful and most skills are at near-peak usefulness in the level 16-20 range, which is easily attainable. This Gn can probably tolerate lowered aptitudes or a sub-27 hardcap on skills.
That said, I liked the idea behind the previous version. Perhaps its unfun/low-powered gameplay issues can be fixed by making demigods into reverse-v2gnolls, with even worse aptitudes but their existing high stats plus increased stat gain from any source.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Friday, 29th September 2017, 20:30
by Alphaeus
I like the high apts on the Gnolls and wouldn't want to see them lowered. That said, I think you could but a skill level cap on them. The problem is the impact this will give on some builds, but idk. The idea of Gnolls isn't to be so ridiculously focused as it is to be using everything all the time whenever you find the best the RNG gives you.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 00:31
by mikee
Floodkiller wrote:but gammafunk, elliptic, mikee and others pitched in to put together another version. It's pretty close to what one of my backup plans were, so it's got my approval.
So this is literally just my idea. =P I told elliptic how I thought we could fix gnolls and he said something like, that sounds potentially awful. The next day I'm hearing about elliptic's brilliant idea to fix gnolls and it's just what I'd said to him! That being said, ideas are cheap and I put in zero actual work.
I'm still testing my first moon orc (this is the name I'm pushing for now), and the power curve looks really interesting. I expect them to be pretty bad in the middle of the game and I'm around lair now so it'll be good to see how that goes. Okawaru and faith may reduce that midgame difficulty more than anything else. Also choosing a start that gets a weapon choice seems to have a weird effect because the extra levels in that weapon seem to bias you heavily towards that weapon type - maybe that's ok.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 01:15
by Kramin42
I got a GnTm going and have 3 runes:
- Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-320-gefad53e (webtiles) character file.
Kramin the Alchemist (Gnoll Transmuter) Turns: 41940, Time: 03:33:17
Health: 171/171 AC: 29 Str: 15 XL: 22 Next: 78%
Magic: 41/41 EV: 27 Int: 31 God: Ashenzari [******]
Gold: 1647 SH: 9 Dex: 16 Spells: 1/51 levels left
rFire + + . SeeInvis + a - +8 demon blade (elec)
rCold + + + Gourm . M - +1 buckler {rF+}
rNeg . . . Faith . c - +4 skin of Zhor {rC+++} (curse)
rPois . Spirit . K - +2 helmet {Int+3} (curse)
rElec . Reflect . F - scarf {rC+ rF+} (curse)
rCorr . Harm . J - +1 pair of gloves "Maargh" {Int+5} (curse)
MR +.... Clarity + Y - +2 pair of boots (curse)
Stlth +++++++... E - amulet of magic regeneration (curse)
HPRegen 0.38/turn v - +6 ring of protection (curse)
MPRegen 0.52/turn t - +6 ring of protection (curse)
@: deflect missiles
A: distributed training, fangs 1, strong nose
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer
a: Curse Item, Scrying, Renounce Religion
You are on level 4 of the Depths.
You worship Ashenzari.
Ashenzari is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.
You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 41 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 2 times.
You have collected 5224 gold pieces.
You have spent 3577 gold pieces at shops.
Inventory:
Hand Weapons
a - a +8 demon blade of electrocution (weapon)
Missiles
V - 4 throwing nets (quivered) {!f}
Armour
c - the cursed +4 skin of Zhor (worn) {rC+++}
(You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
It renders you almost immune to cold.
It has a curse placed upon it.
n - a +2 shield
F - a cursed scarf of resistance (worn)
J - the cursed +1 pair of gloves "Maargh" (worn) {Int+5}
(You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)
It affects your intelligence (+5).
It has a curse placed upon it.
K - a cursed +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
M - a +1 buckler of fire resistance (worn)
Y - a cursed +2 pair of boots (worn)
Magical Staves
b - an uncursed staff of power {!a}
Jewellery
t - a cursed +6 ring of protection (right hand)
v - a cursed +6 ring of protection (left hand)
E - a cursed amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
I - a +6 amulet of reflection
Wands
G - a wand of acid (14/15)
W - a wand of scattershot (4/9)
Scrolls
f - 7 scrolls of remove curse
j - 18 scrolls of identify
k - 8 scrolls of recharging
m - 9 scrolls of amnesia
o - 27 scrolls of teleportation
p - 2 scrolls of holy word
u - 6 scrolls of noise {!r}
y - 4 scrolls of blinking
B - a scroll of fear
D - 2 scrolls of summoning
L - 5 scrolls of magic mapping
O - 3 scrolls of fog
Q - 5 scrolls of enchant armour
Potions
e - 5 potions of invisibility
i - 9 potions of heal wounds
l - 3 potions of berserk rage
q - 6 potions of might
w - 3 potions of flight
x - 15 potions of curing
z - a potion of agility
A - 2 potions of haste
C - 4 potions of cancellation
S - 5 potions of ambrosia
U - 9 potions of brilliance
X - 4 potions of magic
Z - 3 potions of resistance
Books
s - a book of Burglary
Spells Type Level
a - Swiftness Charms/Air 2
b - Passwall Transmutation/Earth 2
c - Passage of Golubria Translocation 4
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction Earth 5
e - Darkness Hexes 6
f - Invisibility Hexes 6
Miscellaneous
h - a fan of gales
H - a lightning rod (4/4) {!a}
N - 3 boxes of beasts
Comestibles
d - 22 bread rations
g - 21 meat rations
P - 34 fruits
Skills:
+ Level 13.9 Fighting
+ Level 14.4 Short Blades
+ Level 14.3 Long Blades
+ Level 14.6 Axes
+ Level 15.0 Maces & Flails
+ Level 13.8 Polearms
+ Level 13.7 Staves
+ Level 14.3 Slings
+ Level 13.9 Bows
+ Level 14.6 Crossbows
+ Level 13.5 Throwing
+ Level 14.0 Armour
+ Level 14.8(18.8) Dodging
+ Level 13.7(17.8) Stealth
Level 0.0 Stabbing
+ Level 14.1 Shields
Level 0.0 Traps
+ Level 15.1 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 15.0 Spellcasting
+ Level 14.9(18.9) Conjurations
+ Level 14.1(18.2) Hexes
+ Level 14.3(18.4) Charms
+ Level 14.0(18.1) Summonings
+ Level 13.7(17.8) Necromancy
+ Level 14.4(18.5) Translocations
+ Level 15.4(19.4) Transmutations
+ Level 13.5(17.6) Fire Magic
+ Level 14.0(18.0) Ice Magic
+ Level 14.0(18.0) Air Magic
+ Level 14.1(18.2) Earth Magic
+ Level 14.4(18.4) Poison Magic
+ Level 14.3 Invocations
+ Level 13.7(17.7) Evocations
You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger
a - Death Channel Necr #######... 1% 6 ###....
e - Orb of Destruction Conj #######... 1% 7 #####..
f - Infestation Necr #######... 9% 8 ######.
m - Deflect Missiles Chrm/Air #######... 1% 6 ###....
q - Statue Form Tmut/Erth #######.. 1% 6 ###....
r - Regeneration Chrm/Necr #######... 0% 3 None
v - Freezing Cloud Conj/Ice/Air #######... 1% 6 ###....
x - Ignition Fire #######... 9% 8 ######.
Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations
Branches:
Dungeon (15/15) Temple (1/1) D:7 Lair (6/6) D:9
Shoals (4/4) Lair:4 Spider (4/4) Lair:2 Slime (0/5) Lair:6
Orc (2/2) D:11 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults (5/5) D:13
Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3 Depths (4/5) D:15
Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Qazlal
Ru
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Beogh
Jiyva
Shops:
Orc:1 [ Orc:2 ([:} Shoals:4 *%( Depths:2 =(=
Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3
Abyss: Depths:1
Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:1
Trove: D:15 (give 7 potions of agility)
Annotations:
D:9 exclusion: statue
Depths:3 1 transporter
Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations
Your experience applies equally to all skills.
You have very sharp teeth.
Your uncanny sense of smell can sniff out nearby items.
Message History
The butt troll butt is heavily wounded.
The deep troll shaman completely misses you.
You block the deep troll shaman's attack.
The deep troll shaman claws you but does no damage.
You slash the deep troll shaman!
Lightning courses through the deep butt shaman!
You kill the deep troll shaman!
No target in view!
No target in view!
You eat the royal jelly. That royal jelly was delicious!
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Kramin the Gnoll Transmuter.
Butt butts: Partake of my vision. Partake of my curse.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Kramin the Gnoll Transmuter.
Ashenzari says: Partake of my vision. Partake of my curse.
Press ? for a list of commands and other butt.
Char dumped successfully.
Saving game... please wait.
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, *,, ** 8...⌠..@..⌠...8 ** , , ,
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***,*, ,#..##.##...#.,,, ,
,, , , #..##*8.8# #..$, * ,*
, ,*,#..# 8.....8 #. , * **
There are no monsters in sight!
Vanquished Creatures
Mara (Shoals:3)
2 ancient liches (Vaults:5)
Sojobo (Vaults:4)
Boris (Vaults:3)
Nikola (Spider:1)
Arachne (Spider:3)
2 liches
3 quicksilver dragons (Vaults:5)
A kraken (Shoals:2)
The ghost of aurelian the Severer, an adept HOSu of Beogh (Spider:4)
2 titans
Polyphemus (Shoals:3)
2 sphinxes
An Executioner (Abyss:3)
Kirke (D:13)
A tentacled starspawn (Abyss:3)
A revenant (Vaults:3)
Roxanne (Spider:2)
6 tengu reavers
A shadow dragon (Vaults:5)
Ilsuiw (Shoals:4)
A fire giant (Vaults:3)
4 deep elf sorcerers
3 frost giants
3 ghost moths
8 vault wardens
5 emperor scorpions
10 ironheart preservers
7 very ugly things
A war gargoyle (Vaults:5)
6 entropy weavers
2 spriggan defenders
A deep elf demonologist (Vaults:1)
8 stone giants
Azrael (D:13)
4 dire elephants (Lair:6)
6 ettins
4 spark wasps
2 ettins (shapeshifter)
5 merfolk javelineers
A purple draconian (Abyss:3)
A jiangshi (Vaults:3)
10 merfolk impalers
Josephine (Lair:4)
A fire dragon (Vaults:3)
A deep elf death mage (Vaults:4)
12 yaktaur captains
32 vault guards
4 ogre magi
4 hydras
Harold (D:10)
2 merfolk avatars
2 great orbs of eyes
A spriggan air mage (Depths:3)
4 rakshasas
9 centaur warriors
3 catoblepae (Shoals:3)
5 ice dragons
13 two-headed ogres
A tengu warrior (Depths:2)
An alligator snapping turtle (Shoals:4)
A merfolk aquamancer (Shoals:4)
2 death knights
A deep troll shaman (Depths:4)
A vampire mage (Depths:3)
3 spriggan berserkers
6 orc high priests
A deep troll earth mage (Depths:1)
2 thrashing horrors (Abyss:3)
4 death yaks
Urug (D:10)
4 deep elf knights
A sixfirhy (Vaults:1)
9 sea snakes
A storm dragon skeleton (Vaults:1)
2 shadow wraiths
4 deep trolls
A swamp dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
2 flayed ghosts
2 glowing orange brains
An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
A deep elf archer (Vaults:2)
18 orc knights
A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
3 necromancers
13 ironbrand convokers
2 phantasmal warriors (D:13)
2 wizards
A shining eye (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
2 harpies (Shoals:4)
22 wolf spiders
2 orb spiders
8 fauns
3 large abominations (Abyss:3)
19 ugly things
6 deep elf magi
An orc sorcerer (Orc:1)
5 cyclopes
9 manticores
2 human skeletons (Vaults:4)
4 merfolk sirens
11 elephants
2 moths of wrath
6 water nymphs
Maurice (D:10)
3 black mambas (shapeshifter)
9 vault sentinels
5 black mambas
Joseph (D:10)
14 spiny frogs
A torpor snail (Lair:4)
29 yaktaurs
A spiny frog (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
3 rime drakes
A gargoyle (D:14)
A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
A yaktaur (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
2 efreet
13 freezing wraiths
A tengu conjurer (Depths:1)
An ancient zyme (Vaults:1)
5 komodo dragons
4 demonic crawlers
5 trolls
2 meliai (D:15)
4 wind drakes
15 jumping spiders
9 merfolk
2 queen bees (shapeshifter)
5 hornets
A polar bear (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
17 slime creatures
2 blink frogs (Lair:6)
A hornet (shapeshifter) (D:14)
6 raiju (Abyss:3)
7 snapping turtles
8 hippogriffs
A raiju (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
A frost giant simulacrum (Vaults:2)
4 dream sheep (Shoals:1)
5 spriggans
11 water elementals
3 air elementals (Depths:3)
12 tarantellas
A wraith (Vaults:1)
2 vampires
68 redbacks
2 ynoxinuls
A hog (D:13)
36 yaks
3 basilisks
2 neqoxecs (Abyss:3)
4 hungry ghosts
3 fire elementals (D:13)
A golden eye (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
A warg (D:11)
Edmund (D:4)
17 soldier ants
3 acid dragons
12 water moccasins
An ogre skeleton (Vaults:1)
8 porcupines
3 hell hounds (D:13)
4 sky beasts
An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
An ice beast (D:14)
2 elf zombies
2 phantoms (D:5)
A black bear (D:7)
A spriggan simulacrum (Depths:2)
16 ogres
38 orc warriors
A hornet zombie (D:15)
2 necrophages
9 wolves
A boggart (Vaults:2)
8 crocodiles
19 centaurs
3 big kobolds (D:9)
19 bullfrogs
3 elf simulacra
A wyvern skeleton (D:12)
2 scorpions
A small abomination (Abyss:3)
6 killer bees
3 wights (D:15)
2 howler monkeys
A howler monkey (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
7 crimson imps
2 centaur zombies
2 quasits
2 bullfrog zombies
7 hounds
9 jellies
5 centaur skeletons
30 orc priests
5 bullfrog skeletons
Jessica (D:3)
5 iguanas
10 orc wizards
2 hell rats (Lair:1)
18 worker ants
A worker ant (shapeshifter) (D:11)
A hound skeleton (D:6)
A mummy (D:5)
A worker ant zombie (D:6)
11 adders
4 gnolls (D:6)
18 river rats (Lair:1)
2 shadow imps
An ufetubus (Vaults:4)
2 oozes
An adder skeleton (D:4)
5 worms
2 dart slugs
3 leopard geckos
58 orcs
4 bats
7 giant cockroaches
4 goblins
9 hobgoblins
11 jackals
19 kobolds
11 quokkas
8 frilled lizards
A jackal zombie (D:5)
3 kobold zombies (D:5)
An orc zombie (D:5)
2 quokka zombies
13 rats
A crawling corpse (Vaults:4)
8 plants
A starspawn tentacle (Abyss:3)
5 tentacles (Shoals:2)
1271 creatures vanquished.
Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
A golden dragon (Vaults:5)
the Enchantress (Depths:3)
A lich (Vaults:5)
Rupert (Spider:1)
A tentacled monstrosity (Vaults:5)
6 titans
A quicksilver dragon (Vaults:5)
A sphinx (Vaults:5)
A tengu reaver (Vaults:5)
A shadow dragon (Vaults:5)
Aizul (Spider:3)
A fire giant (Depths:2)
2 vault wardens (Vaults:5)
2 deep elf sorcerers (Vaults:5)
Louise (Spider:1)
4 ghost moths (Spider:4)
3 ironheart preservers
2 emperor scorpions (Spider:4)
3 spriggan defenders
A war gargoyle (Vaults:5)
3 stone giants
A deep elf elementalist (Vaults:5)
5 very ugly things
3 entropy weavers
A dire elephant (Lair:6)
A deep elf annihilator (Vaults:2)
Snorg (D:13)
A deep elf death mage (Vaults:4)
2 merfolk javelineers (Shoals:4)
4 ettins
2 yaktaur captains (Vaults:5)
3 fire dragons
3 rakshasas
A deep elf high priest (Vaults:5)
4 vault guards
2 great orbs of eyes
3 ice dragons
3 hydras
A spriggan air mage (Depths:3)
2 merfolk avatars (Shoals:3)
A catoblepas (Lair:6)
An anaconda (Lair:6)
3 centaur warriors
2 merfolk aquamancers
7 two-headed ogres
2 satyrs
A death knight (D:13)
3 ogre magi
A queen ant (Spider:1)
A deep troll shaman (Depths:3)
3 death yaks
4 sea snakes
An unseen horror (Vaults:1)
5 deep trolls
A flayed ghost (Vaults:5)
A shadow dragon zombie (Depths:2)
2 glowing orange brains
A glowing orange brain (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
4 ironbrand convokers
3 necromancers
A deep elf archer (Vaults:3)
14 ugly things
12 orb spiders
2 deep elf magi (D:15)
2 oklob plants (Lair:5)
14 wolf spiders
A shining eye (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
2 cyclopes
9 fauns
A stone giant zombie (Depths:2)
2 tengu skeletons (Depths:2)
2 merfolk sirens (Shoals:4)
A manticore (Shoals:3)
A stone giant skeleton (Depths:2)
A black mamba (shapeshifter) (D:15)
A water nymph (Shoals:4)
A centaur zombie (D:11)
An orange demon (Abyss:3)
5 vault sentinels
A rime drake (Lair:6)
9 yaktaurs
5 demonic crawlers
2 trolls (shapeshifter)
7 merfolk
A meliai (D:15)
A polar bear (Lair:4)
34 jumping spiders
6 slime creatures
A spriggan zombie (Depths:2)
6 blink frogs
2 jumping spiders (shapeshifter)
A raiju (Abyss:3)
2 hippogriffs
A snapping turtle (Shoals:3)
A redback (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
A spriggan (Depths:3)
13 tarantellas
A wyvern (D:15)
54 redbacks
A vampire (D:11)
9 water elementals
A basilisk (Lair:6)
17 yaks
5 wraiths (Lair:4)
2 hogs (D:13)
A warg (D:11)
A human zombie (Depths:2)
3 acid dragons
5 soldier ants (Spider:1)
A porcupine (Lair:3)
A water moccasin (Lair:5)
12 orc warriors
A black bear (shapeshifter) (D:15)
2 eyes of draining
An ice beast (D:14)
4 ogres
2 wolves
14 centaurs
A big kobold (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
3 bullfrogs
A killer bee (D:11)
An electric eel (D:15)
A quasit (D:11)
2 hounds (D:11)
3 jellies
7 orc priests
6 worker ants
5 orc wizards
An adder (D:11)
An ufetubus (Vaults:4)
An ooze (Lair:6)
29 orcs
A crawling corpse (Vaults:4)
12 plants
508 creatures vanquished.
Vanquished Creatures (others)
3 vault guards (Vaults:5)
A deep troll shaman (Depths:2)
A shadow wraith (Vaults:2)
2 humans (D:13)
A fire vortex (D:15)
7 fungi
A lurking horror (Abyss:3)
8 plants
A starspawn tentacle (Abyss:3)
12 tentacles (Shoals:2)
37 creatures vanquished.
Grand Total: 1816 creatures vanquished
Notes
Turn | Place | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
0 | D:1 | Kramin the Gnoll Transmuter began the quest for the Orb.
0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 17/17 MP: 6/6
156 | D:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
156 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/23 MP: 5/7
171 | D:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
217 | D:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
372 | D:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
372 | D:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
374 | D:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
578 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes
623 | D:2 | Noticed a dagger
623 | D:2 | Noticed a hand axe
624 | D:2 | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
646 | D:2 | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
663 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
663 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
663 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/28 MP: 9/9
684 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Axes
684 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic
704 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
709 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
901 | D:2 | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
945 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 34/34 MP: 7/11
959 | D:2 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
980 | D:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
1009 | D:2 | Became a worshipper of Ashenzari the Shackled
1626 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
1626 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
1681 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
1756 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 39/39 MP: 8/12
1775 | D:3 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
1945 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
1945 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
1945 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
1968 | D:3 | Noticed Jessica
1973 | D:3 | Killed Jessica
1973 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Polearms
1973 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
2077 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre
2083 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
2089 | D:4 | Killed an ogre
2089 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
2089 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Crossbows
2089 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
2089 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 47/47 MP: 10/13
2250 | D:4 | Reached * piety under Ashenzari
2333 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
2464 | D:4 | Noticed Edmund
2476 | D:4 | Killed Edmund
2476 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
2476 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 52/52 MP: 10/15
2785 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
3136 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Bows
3175 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 57/58 MP: 13/16
3512 | D:6 | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands
3760 | D:5 | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Lightning Spire
3973 | D:6 | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
4753 | D:7 | Noticed a hippogriff
4758 | D:7 | Noticed a spriggan baker
4768 | D:7 | Killed a hippogriff
4768 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 43/65 MP: 15/17
4775 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
5054 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
5063 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
5607 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
5868 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Slings
6051 | D:8 | Reached ** piety under Ashenzari
6153 | D:8 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
6206 | D:8 | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
6263 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
6263 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
6277 | D:8 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
6413 | D:8 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
6549 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 69/73 MP: 15/19
6629 | D:9 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
6660 | D:9 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
6680 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
7006 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
7029 | D:9 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
7082 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair.
7089 | D:9 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
7230 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Crossbows
7293 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre
7303 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre
7303 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
7303 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
7303 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
7303 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
7403 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
7458 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
7458 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms
7552 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
7559 | D:10 | Noticed Joseph
7585 | D:10 | Killed Joseph
7585 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
7585 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes
7585 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
7585 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
7598 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations
7608 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
7613 | D:10 | Noticed Harold
7646 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Poison Magic
7649 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
7715 | D:10 | Killed Harold
7715 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
7715 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
7745 | D:10 | Noticed a two-headed ogre
7749 | D:10 | Noticed a brown ugly thing
7850 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 80/80 MP: 21/21
7856 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
8173 | D:10 | Noticed Urug
8192 | D:10 | HP: 5/80 [Urug/javelin (17)]
8193 | D:10 | Killed Urug
8193 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Bows
8522 | D:10 | Killed a two-headed ogre
8539 | D:10 | Noticed Maurice
8548 | D:10 | Killed Maurice
8772 | D:10 | Killed a brown ugly thing
8988 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
9824 | Lair:2 | Reached *** piety under Ashenzari
10311 | Lair:2 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 86/87 MP: 17/23
10667 | Lair:2 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
10926 | Lair:3 | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
11865 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
11910 | Lair:4 | Got the morningstar "Roheap" {drain, rPois rN+ Str+3 SInv}
11946 | Lair:4 | Identified the +6 morningstar "Roheap" {drain, rPois rN+ Str+3 SInv} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
11975 | Lair:4 | Noticed a six-headed hydra
12006 | Lair:4 | Killed a six-headed hydra
12030 | Lair:4 | Noticed Josephine
12040 | Lair:4 | Killed Josephine
12262 | Lair:4 | Noticed a five-headed hydra
12270 | Lair:4 | Killed a five-headed hydra
12641 | Lair:4 | Reached **** piety under Ashenzari
12804 | Lair:4 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 68/95 MP: 19/25
12939 | Lair:5 | Identified the Compendium of Conjuration
12966 | Lair:5 | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud
13386 | Lair:5 | Identified the Grimoire of Creative Black Rites
13860 | Lair:6 | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
14010 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations
14473 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
15245 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
15250 | Lair:6 | Noticed a dire elephant
15254 | Lair:6 | Killed a dire elephant
15331 | Lair:6 | Noticed a dire elephant
15346 | Lair:6 | Killed a dire elephant
15346 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 104/105 MP: 14/27
15434 | Lair:6 | Noticed a dire elephant
15450 | Lair:6 | Killed a dire elephant
15593 | Lair:6 | Noticed a dire elephant
15593 | Lair:6 | Noticed a dire elephant
15601 | Lair:6 | Killed a dire elephant
15611 | Lair:6 | Killed a dire elephant
15739 | Lair:6 | Learned a level 6 spell: Death Channel
16125 | D:11 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
16295 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
16411 | D:11 | Reached ***** piety under Ashenzari
16538 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
16640 | Orc:1 | Found Akheoc's Armour Shoppe.
16825 | Orc:2 | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
16860 | Orc:2 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
17622 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
17884 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
18111 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Poison Magic
18140 | Orc:2 | Found Zuleifiwu's Gadget Emporium.
18140 | Orc:2 | Found Yntabb's Book Emporium.
18141 | Orc:2 | Found Leoz's Armour Shoppe.
18141 | Orc:2 | Found Wismi's Weapon Emporium.
18163 | Orc:2 | Bought a +0 helmet of intelligence for 172 gold pieces
18174 | Orc:2 | Bought a book of the Sky for 650 gold pieces
18181 | Orc:2 | Learned a level 6 spell: Deflect Missiles
18184 | Orc:2 | Bought a book of Transfigurations for 550 gold pieces
18193 | Orc:2 | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form
18339 | Orc:1 | Identified 2 scrolls of acquirement
18395 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
18498 | Orc:1 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
18938 | D:12 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
18957 | D:12 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 113/113 MP: 25/29
19114 | D:12 | Reached skill level 10 in Crossbows
19370 | D:13 | Noticed Azrael
19378 | D:13 | Killed Azrael
19378 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
19659 | D:13 | Found a gate to the Vaults.
19667 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Charms
19671 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
19801 | D:13 | Noticed Kirke
19808 | D:13 | Killed Kirke
19936 | D:13 | Noticed Snorg
19945 | D:13 | Killed Snorg
20496 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
20560 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic
20714 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Translocations
20737 | D:14 | Reached ****** piety under Ashenzari
20856 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
20856 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
21296 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
21299 | D:15 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
21413 | D:15 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
21519 | D:15 | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction
21750 | D:15 | Reached skill level 10 in Summonings
21780 | D:15 | Reached skill level 10 in Hexes
21948 | D:15 | Found a staircase to the Depths.
22099 | D:15 | Reached skill level 10 in Slings
22376 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
22519 | Orc:1 | Bought the +4 skin of Zhor {rC+++} for 809 gold pieces
22519 | Orc:1 | Found the +4 skin of Zhor {rC+++}
22783 | Spider:1 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 118/121 MP: 27/30
22877 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
22974 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
23096 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Necromancy
23157 | Spider:1 | Noticed Louise
23166 | Spider:1 | Killed Louise
23175 | Spider:1 | Noticed Rupert
23181 | Spider:1 | Killed Rupert
23181 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
23538 | Spider:1 | Noticed Nikola
23543 | Spider:1 | Killed Nikola
23543 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Ice Magic
24223 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
24251 | Spider:2 | Noticed Roxanne
24493 | Spider:2 | Killed Roxanne
24493 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Bows
24768 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
25348 | Spider:3 | Noticed Aizul
25352 | Spider:3 | Noticed Arachne
25365 | Spider:3 | Killed Arachne
25380 | Spider:3 | Killed Aizul
25435 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
25626 | Spider:3 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 129/129 MP: 32/32
25918 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
26026 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
26037 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Throwing
26280 | Spider:4 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
26601 | Spider:4 | Noticed aurelian's ghost (adept HOSu)
26625 | Spider:4 | Killed aurelian's ghost
26795 | Lair:2 | Identified the +8 arbalest of the Extremely Mad {velocity, *Corrode +Fly rPois Dex+5} (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
26795 | Lair:2 | Identified the cursed +0 hunting sling of Articulation {velocity, *Corrode rF+ Str-2 Dex+7} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
26953 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
26986 | Vaults:1 | Noticed an Executioner
27004 | Vaults:1 | Cast into level 3 of the Abyss (a deep elf sorcerer)
27004 | Abyss:3 | Identified the +7 broad axe "Killer Bee's Bane" {elec, MP-9 Int+7}
27009 | Abyss:3 | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
27063 | Abyss:3 | Noticed an Executioner
27075 | Abyss:3 | Killed an Executioner
27156 | Abyss:3 | Noticed a tentacled starspawn
27160 | Abyss:3 | Killed a tentacled starspawn
27164 | Vaults:1 | Escaped the Abyss
27173 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 138/138 MP: 34/34
27189 | Vaults:1 | Noticed a Tzitzimitl
28092 | Vaults:1 | Cast into level 2 of the Abyss (a wizard)
28104 | Abyss:2 | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
28132 | Abyss:2 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
28145 | Vaults:1 | Escaped the Abyss
28919 | Vaults:2 | Paralysed by an ogre mage for 6 turns
29912 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 146/146 MP: 21/35
29950 | Vaults:3 | Identified the cursed +5 hunting sling of Excruciating Pain {venom, rPois rC+} (You acquired it on level 3 of the Vaults)
30015 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Boris
30584 | Vaults:3 | Killed Boris
30732 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
31474 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Sojobo
31491 | Vaults:4 | Killed Sojobo
31643 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 153/154 MP: 25/37
32259 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
32264 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
32265 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a Brimstone Fiend
32279 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich
32685 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
32703 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich
32984 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +1 pair of gloves "Maargh" {Int+5}
33198 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a lich
33201 | Vaults:5 | Killed a lich
33201 | Vaults:5 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 161/161 MP: 27/39
33309 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a golden dragon
33324 | Vaults:5 | Killed a golden dragon
33480 | Vaults:5 | Identified the cursed +3 pair of gloves "Loqaffe" {rElec rPois rC+ MR-} (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
33652 | Vaults:5 | Got a silver rune of Zot
34068 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +6 chain mail "Sutozih" {Regen+ Dex+4 Slay+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)
34068 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +1 chain mail "Orucucue" {rElec Regen+ Int-5 Stlth+}
34402 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
34612 | Shoals:1 | Identified the cursed +2 hunting sling "Dolubuz" {venom, rF+ rN+ Dex+2}
35100 | Shoals:2 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
35754 | Shoals:2 | Identified the +3 chain mail "Heexkel" {rC+++ Int-2 Dex-4 Stlth+}
35959 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Mara
35965 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Kramin's illusion
35974 | Shoals:3 | Killed Mara
36061 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Polyphemus
36075 | Shoals:3 | Killed Polyphemus
36770 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
36770 | Shoals:4 | Found Wetem's Food Emporium.
36773 | Shoals:4 | Found Foofot's Assorted Antiques.
36829 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Ilsuiw
36857 | Shoals:4 | Killed Ilsuiw
37163 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
37285 | Shoals:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 170/170 MP: 40/40
37329 | Shoals:4 | Found Bycheusm's Antique Weapon Emporium.
37733 | Shoals:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon for 292 gold pieces
38251 | Orc:1 | Identified the cursed +0 hunting sling of Articulation {velocity, *Corrode rF+ Str-2 Dex+7} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
38346 | Orc:2 | Bought a Necronomicon for 1104 gold pieces
38596 | D:15 | Learned a level 8 spell: Infestation
38639 | D:15 | Learned a level 8 spell: Ignition
39574 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
39574 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
39581 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 15 in Transmutations
39700 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
40234 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
40238 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
40561 | Depths:2 | Found Hiedosen's Antique Weapon Shop.
40689 | Depths:2 | Found Jacont's Jewellery Boutique.
40733 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
40741 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails
40950 | Depths:2 | Found Noolafod's Jewellery Shoppe.
41039 | Depths:2 | Identified the +1 ring mail "Niycues" {rElec rC- MP-9 Stlth+}
41339 | Depths:3 | Noticed the Enchantress
41342 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
41351 | Depths:3 | Killed the Enchantress
41351 | Depths:3 | Identified the +0 faerie dragon scales {rCorr Str+3} (You took it off the Enchantress on level 3 of the Depths)
41364 | Depths:3 | Found a transporter.
41371 | Depths:3 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
41940 | Depths:4 | Upgraded the game from 0.21-a0-317-gd0d0d88 to 0.21-a0-320-gefad53e
Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Maces & Flails | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | 15.0
Translocations | 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.4
Stealth | 1 2 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.7
Armour | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.0
Spellcasting | 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | 15.0
Poison Magic | 1 2 3 5 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.4
Long Blades | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.3
Evocations | 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.7
Axes | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.6
Earth Magic | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.1
Short Blades | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.4
Throwing | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.5
Slings | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.3
Invocations | 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.3
Dodging | 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.8
Conjurations | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.9
Charms | 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.3
Transmutations | 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | 15.4
Polearms | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.8
Necromancy | 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.7
Air Magic | 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.0
Fighting | 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.9
Staves | 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.7
Crossbows | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.6
Shields | 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.1
Fire Magic | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.5
Summonings | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.0
Hexes | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.1
Unarmed Combat | 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | 15.1
Ice Magic | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 | 14.0
Bows | 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13.9
Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed | 82 | 91 | 399 | 507 | | 7 | | || 1086
Punch | 3 | | 6 | 10 | 3 | | | || 22
Kick | 5 | | | | | | | || 5
Headbutt | 4 | | | | | | | || 4
Bite | 1 | 6 | 5 | 31 | 158 | 110 | 89 | 39 || 439
Morningstar | | | | 82 | 634 | | | || 716
Eveningstar | | | | | 485 | 903 | 853 | 25 || 2266
Demon blade | | | | | | | | 209 || 209
Throw: Throwing net | | | | 1 | | | 2 | || 3
Cast: Beastly Appendage | 15 | | | | | | | || 15
Spider Form | 2 | 14 | 32 | 17 | | | | || 65
Blade Hands | | | | 27 | 1 | | | || 28
Summon Lightning | | | | 10 | 35 | | | || 45
Sticks to Snakes | | | | 10 | 2 | | | || 12
Freezing Cloud | | | | | 23 | 10 | 32 | || 65
Regeneration | | | | | 20 | 25 | 26 | 10 || 81
Death Channel | | | | | 47 | 51 | 57 | 19 || 174
Statue Form | | | | | 15 | 30 | 32 | 8 || 85
Deflect Missiles | | | | | 2 | 2 | 7 | || 11
Orb of Destructio | | | | | | 10 | 4 | 2 || 16
Infestation | | | | | | | | 16 || 16
Ignition | | | | | | | | 7 || 7
Invok: Curse Item | | | | 3 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 1 || 13
Abil: End Transformatio | | | | | 1 | | | || 1
Evoke: Wand | | | | 2 | | | 3 | || 5
Use: Scroll | | | 6 | 3 | 33 | 4 | 9 | 6 || 61
Potion | | | | 1 | 1 | | 1 | || 3
Stab: Sleeping | 1 | 2 | 2 | 6 | 12 | 12 | 16 | 6 || 57
Distracted | | | 1 | 5 | 29 | 35 | 23 | 10 || 103
Held in net/web | | | | 1 | | | 1 | || 2
Eat: Chunk | | 6 | 17 | 28 | 58 | 42 | 43 | 17 || 211
Royal jelly | | | 1 | | 4 | 6 | 2 | 5 || 18
Bread ration | | | | | 1 | 1 | 2 | || 4
Meat ration | | | | | | | | 1 || 1
Armor: Robe | 15 | 4 | | | | | | || 19
Skin | | 4 | 55 | 24 | 61 | 348 | 279 | 28 || 799
Leather armour | | 6 | 14 | | | | | || 20
Ring mail | | | 40 | 140 | 288 | | | || 468
Animal skin | | | | | 2 | 70 | 54 | 32 || 158
Dodge: Dodged | 60 | 63 | 324 | 445 | 698 | 786 | 716 | 174 || 3266
Deflected | | | | | 8 | 30 | 54 | 14 || 106
Block: Shield | | | | | 814 | 713 | 641 | 28 || 2196
Buckler | | | | | | | | 60 || 60
Rpst.: Demon blade | | | | | | | | 31 || 31
Table legend:
A = Spawn XP
B = Non-spawn XP
C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP
D = Spawn monster count
E = Non-spawn monster count
F = Spawn count percentage of total count
G = Total turns spent on level
A B C D E F G
+---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
Total | 13350 | 669508 | 2.0 | 25 | 1730 | 1.4 | 41940
+---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
D:1 | 0 | 32 | 0.0 | 0 | 20 | 0.0 | 609
D:2 | 0 | 105 | 0.0 | 0 | 22 | 0.0 | 849
D:3 | 0 | 123 | 0.0 | 0 | 12 | 0.0 | 705
D:4 | 0 | 380 | 0.0 | 0 | 9 | 0.0 | 771
D:5 | 0 | 720 | 0.0 | 0 | 28 | 0.0 | 804
D:6 | 0 | 852 | 0.0 | 0 | 23 | 0.0 | 943
D:7 | 0 | 1160 | 0.0 | 0 | 21 | 0.0 | 889
D:8 | 0 | 1164 | 0.0 | 0 | 13 | 0.0 | 970
D:9 | 0 | 2310 | 0.0 | 0 | 35 | 0.0 | 1541
D:10 | 0 | 6597 | 0.0 | 0 | 32 | 0.0 | 1239
D:11 | 0 | 5570 | 0.0 | 0 | 50 | 0.0 | 845
D:12 | 0 | 5647 | 0.0 | 0 | 25 | 0.0 | 631
D:13 | 0 | 17983 | 0.0 | 0 | 51 | 0.0 | 1320
D:14 | 0 | 8231 | 0.0 | 0 | 28 | 0.0 | 970
D:15 | 0 | 12360 | 0.0 | 0 | 48 | 0.0 | 1118
Lair:1 | 0 | 2607 | 0.0 | 0 | 45 | 0.0 | 953
Lair:2 | 0 | 4764 | 0.0 | 0 | 24 | 0.0 | 1436
Lair:3 | 0 | 3041 | 0.0 | 0 | 19 | 0.0 | 974
Lair:4 | 0 | 8045 | 0.0 | 0 | 31 | 0.0 | 1071
Lair:5 | 0 | 7654 | 0.0 | 0 | 26 | 0.0 | 1032
Lair:6 | 0 | 19892 | 0.0 | 0 | 62 | 0.0 | 1971
Shoals:1 | 0 | 8777 | 0.0 | 0 | 22 | 0.0 | 765
Shoals:2 | 0 | 14672 | 0.0 | 0 | 34 | 0.0 | 1052
Shoals:3 | 0 | 23185 | 0.0 | 0 | 37 | 0.0 | 902
Shoals:4 | 0 | 29240 | 0.0 | 0 | 47 | 0.0 | 979
Spider:1 | 0 | 24053 | 0.0 | 0 | 79 | 0.0 | 1342
Spider:2 | 0 | 14475 | 0.0 | 0 | 48 | 0.0 | 1377
Spider:3 | 0 | 20343 | 0.0 | 0 | 71 | 0.0 | 616
Spider:4 | 0 | 40912 | 0.0 | 0 | 115 | 0.0 | 809
Orc:1 | 0 | 4294 | 0.0 | 0 | 73 | 0.0 | 879
Orc:2 | 0 | 13706 | 0.0 | 0 | 89 | 0.0 | 1607
Vaults:1 | 1051 | 35764 | 2.9 | 2 | 68 | 2.9 | 1409
Vaults:2 | 0 | 35184 | 0.0 | 0 | 74 | 0.0 | 1514
Vaults:3 | 0 | 59772 | 0.0 | 0 | 77 | 0.0 | 1386
Vaults:4 | 0 | 48423 | 0.0 | 0 | 56 | 0.0 | 1503
Vaults:5 | 0 | 103638 | 0.0 | 0 | 99 | 0.0 | 1578
Depths:1 | 0 | 28509 | 0.0 | 0 | 38 | 0.0 | 842
Depths:2 | 0 | 26174 | 0.0 | 0 | 42 | 0.0 | 740
Depths:3 | 0 | 28286 | 0.0 | 0 | 36 | 0.0 | 765
Depths:4 | 0 | 864 | 0.0 | 0 | 1 | 0.0 | 19
Abyss:2 | 205 | 0 | 100.0 | 1 | 0 | 100.0 | 53
Abyss:3 | 12094 | 0 | 100.0 | 22 | 0 | 100.0 | 160
+---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
The start is very strong, as your starting skill points in UC/Tm get amplified a lot by the +8. The great thing about Tm is while later your UC skill will not be up to par, you have no reason to stick to UC anyway, you can switch to a weapon when you find a nice one and pick up other spells you find. Bladehands does good damage at low UC anyway if you haven't found a decent weapon for lair. I went Ash to amplify the +8's even more, and it's been working well. I have level 8 spells online already.
In terms of tweaks I would suggest that starting skill points from background either reduced or also split evenly over all skills (I prefer the latter). You have this massive amount of power on D:1 which then fades off to a fairly normal char by lair, so maybe +8 would be ok if the strong start is toned down a bit.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 04:29
by gammafunk
mikee wrote:Floodkiller wrote:but gammafunk, elliptic, mikee and others pitched in to put together another version. It's pretty close to what one of my backup plans were, so it's got my approval.
So this is literally just my idea. =P I told elliptic how I thought we could fix gnolls and he said something like, that sounds potentially awful. The next day I'm hearing about elliptic's brilliant idea to fix gnolls and it's just what I'd said to him! That being said, ideas are cheap and I put in zero actual work.
I doubt this version of events! elliptic confirmed that the idea was yours but never said it was bad. And if you'd described it to me in with all the nice specifics and suggestions elliptic gave, you'd have gotten more credit.
...and come to think of it mikee, where is my "Zombie Hands" spell proposal you promised?
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 05:07
by VeryAngryFelid
GnWz is extremely powerful early with those 8 MP at XL 1, all spells are easily castable. Then in Lair it becomes much weaker, I like it, unusual power curve. Also it is unusual to be able to stab confused monsters, normally I don't train Stealth and Short Blades high that early.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 12:12
by emikaela
i like the feel of this version more than the others, but it's likely a bit too strong, maybe try it with +6 or +7 apts. running a gnvm^ash currently with two runes, and so far i've never felt limited by skills at all, i can just use whatever i find as if i've trained for it from the start. i guess if you usually rush to high level spells or large weapon mindelay you'd have to adjust. another way to go would be to lower starting attributes, like go back to 7/7/7 but without the lock.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 12:57
by watertreatmentRL
I think the novelty of a character that has huge skills is going to wear off. Or it will be heavily rebalanced in a way that loses that fresh feel. Then you'll be left with a species where characters gravitate even more strongly toward the same place at the end of the game than they normally do in crawl.
It's weird how essentially the same concept has been out there since May (see upthread) but it has to come out of the core of institutional crawl discourse to go anywhere and the story goes from "omg, that is too radical I would quit crawl if they decided to do that" to "omg, this is awesome guys, look at this new gnoll concept."
The reality is that this is a very conservative take on the xl-based boost. I get the desire to minimize the interaction with Ashenzari, but Ashenzari should not use skill points as the basis of the skill boost either. Hit two birds with one stone: Make the Ash boosts give an easy to understand skill level, not skill point, boost (this would be a major usability improvement, think passive heroism that scales with whatever ash factors, but with easy to predict integer maximum values) and do the same with gnolls, so you're not trying to use the same coarse parameter to encapsulate both the skill growth rate and the magnitude of starting skills.
edit: A commit from this morning seems to bring things closer to what I had in mind, if I understand what's going on there correctly. That seems good.
edit 2: Actually, the commit seems to address issues with having super high aptitudes and the weird way skill points are allocated, so not good.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 13:50
by MainiacJoe
This soundded neat so I rolled up a nuGnoll on CAO. I'm finding that the skills are not all ascending equally, but it doesn't seem to be like autotraining because my long blades for instance has gone up a level, but polearms is still 0, and in the interim I've wielded a club and a hand axe. I get that I cannot choose where my skill points go, but there seems to be a black box doing the choosing instead. How are SP allocated?
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 18:14
by Blink Frog
I roll up a Gnoll Wizard because I figured the cross-the-board skilling would be awesome with the starter book. Wasn't wrong. Book carried him to Lair. Found some great gear. That plus generous Oka gifts is making everything feel super easy. (Oka's gifted me like three sets of +8 arti plate...) Being able to use whatever I find makes play less tedious. Too bad the food clock is still in the game. I'd love to see this guy ported over to Hellcrawl.
- Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-316-g7453ecb (tiles) character file.
Rover the Thaumaturge (Gnoll Wizard) Turns: 29171, Time: 02:09:44
Health: 115/115 AC: 34 Str: 13 XL: 15 Next: 31%
Magic: 39/39 EV: 12 Int: 22 God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold: 1490 SH: 3 Dex: 21 Spells: 19/37 levels left
rFire + . . SeeInvis . a - +3 shortbow
rCold . . . Gourm . (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg . . . Faith . V - +8 shadow dragon scales of Inaction {rF+ MP+9 Str-2 Dex+8 Stlth++++}
rPois + Spirit . C - +1 helmet
rElec . Reflect + n - +0 cloak
rCorr . Harm . D - +0 pair of gloves of Viecsiqe {rPois Str-2 Slay+4}
MR +.... N - +0 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Stlth +++++++... z - +3 amulet of reflection
HPRegen 0.29/turn u - +5 ring of protection
MPRegen 0.26/turn i - +2 ring of strength
@: no status effects
A: distributed training, fangs 1, strong nose
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion
You are on level 13 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.
You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 20 of its levels.
You have also visited: Bailey.
You have collected 1490 gold pieces.
Inventory:
Hand Weapons
a - a +3 shortbow (weapon)
(You took it off a centaur on level 13 of the Dungeon)
b - the +8 quarterstaff of the Heavens {venom, +Blink Str+3 SInv}
(You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
It affects your strength (+3).
It lets you see invisible.
It lets you blink.
w - the +9 sword of Zonguldrok {reap}
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
If a monster killed with it leaves a corpse in good enough shape, the corpse
will be animated as a zombie friendly to the killer.
U - the +1 arbalest "Giant's Curse" {velocity, rElec Int+4}
(You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
Any bolt fired from it inflicts extra damage.
It affects your intelligence (+4).
It insulates you from electricity.
Missiles
e - 179 arrows (quivered)
h - 636 stones
y - 81 bolts
Armour
n - a +0 cloak (worn)
(You took it off Crazy Yiuf on level 2 of the Dungeon)
C - a +1 helmet (worn)
(You took it off Robin on level 2 of the Dungeon)
D - the +0 pair of gloves of Viecsiqe (worn) {rPois Str-2 Slay+4}
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
It affects your strength (-2).
It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
(+4).
It protects you from poison.
N - a +0 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
V - the +8 shadow dragon scales of Inaction (worn) {rF+ MP+9 Str-2 Dex+8 Stlth++++}
(You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
It affects your strength (-2).
It affects your dexterity (+8).
It protects you from fire.
It affects your magic capacity (+9).
It makes you much more stealthy.
Z - the +4 ring mail of Zatoz {rC+ rCorr}
(You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
It protects you from cold.
It protects you from acid and corrosion.
Jewellery
i - a +2 ring of strength (right hand)
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
u - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
(You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
z - a +3 amulet of reflection (around neck)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
Wands
f - a wand of paralysis (?/24)
(You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
v - a wand of scattershot (5/9)
(You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)
H - a wand of paralysis (?/24)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
I - a wand of lightning (?/15)
(You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
O - a wand of confusion (?/48)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
R - a wand of disintegration (?/24)
(You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
W - a wand of acid (?/15)
(You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
Scrolls
c - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
j - 7 scrolls of remove curse
o - 6 scrolls of teleportation
s - a scroll labeled BEUNUO HILIOKK
t - 2 scrolls of identify
G - 3 scrolls of blinking
K - a scroll labeled ZUUMIX IFOYNAH
Q - a scroll of enchant armour
Potions
d - 5 potions of might
g - a metallic blue potion
m - 7 potions of curing
p - 4 potions of ambrosia
q - 4 potions of lignification
r - 3 potions of berserk rage
E - 5 potions of haste
F - a red potion
J - 6 potions of brilliance
M - 4 potions of flight
Books
A - a book of Necromancy
(You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
Miscellaneous
x - a sack of spiders
B - a lamp of fire
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
S - a lightning rod (4/4)
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
Comestibles
k - 13 bread rations
l - 25 fruits
L - 5 chunks of flesh
P - a royal jelly
T - 2 meat rations
Skills:
+ Level 9.8 Fighting
+ Level 9.0 Short Blades
+ Level 9.8 Long Blades
+ Level 9.7 Axes
+ Level 8.8 Maces & Flails
+ Level 9.3 Polearms
+ Level 8.5 Staves
+ Level 9.6 Slings
+ Level 9.2 Bows
+ Level 10.3 Crossbows
+ Level 9.0 Throwing
+ Level 9.6 Armour
+ Level 10.5 Dodging
+ Level 10.1 Stealth
Level 0.0 Stabbing
+ Level 9.4 Shields
Level 0.0 Traps
+ Level 8.8 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 11.5 Spellcasting
+ Level 9.8 Conjurations
+ Level 9.3 Hexes
+ Level 9.6 Charms
+ Level 9.6 Summonings
+ Level 9.1 Necromancy
+ Level 10.6 Translocations
+ Level 8.2 Transmutations
+ Level 10.0 Fire Magic
+ Level 10.3 Ice Magic
+ Level 9.4 Air Magic
+ Level 9.5 Earth Magic
+ Level 9.1 Poison Magic
+ Level 10.4 Invocations
+ Level 10.2 Evocations
You have 19 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger
a - Magic Dart Conj #### 1% 1 None
b - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 4% 3 None
c - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ######.. 5% 3 None
d - Cause Fear Hex ######.... 19% 4 None
r - Regeneration Chrm/Necr ######.... 5% 3 None
s - Call Imp Summ ######.. 2% 2 None
x - Blink Tloc N/A 1% 2 None
Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations
Branches:
Dungeon (13/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (6/6) D:8
Swamp (0/4) Lair:2 Snake (0/4) Lair:4 Slime (0/5) Lair:6
Orc (0/2) D:9
Vaults: D:13-14
Update: this guy feels very, very powerful. More than most of my runners who've cleared the Lair branches. Seriously, I was playing like a moron in Swamp and he couldn't die. He's got a ton of options between spells, weapons, and evocables. The only real decisions I've had to make are what to do with stat upgrades. Otherwise I just grab whatever goodies cross my path and smash the dungeon without worrying about it. I guess he's supposed to have a harder time later in U when he can't get skills above 14? Maybe?
- Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-316-g7453ecb (tiles) character file.
Rover the Thaumaturge (Gnoll Wizard) Turns: 47138, Time: 04:18:51
Health: 147/147 AC: 42 Str: 19 XL: 19 Next: 93%
Magic: 41/41 EV: 19 Int: 23 God: Okawaru [******]
Gold: 1629 SH: 3 Dex: 31 Spells: 1/44 levels left
rFire + . . SeeInvis . x - +5 triple crossbow (velocity)
rCold . . . Gourm . (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg + . . Faith . V - +8 shadow dragon scales of Inaction {rF+ MP+9 Str-2 Dex+8 Stlth++++}
rPois + Spirit . r - +4 helmet "Mumiqu" {*Corrode MR+++ Dex+8 Stlth-}
rElec . Reflect + g - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr . Harm . y - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR +++++ v - +0 pair of boots of Wacedgha {+Fly rN+ Stlth+} (curse)
Stlth +++++++... z - +3 amulet of reflection
HPRegen 0.34/turn u - +5 ring of protection
MPRegen 0.27/turn i - +2 ring of strength
@: no status effects
A: distributed training, claws 1, fangs 1, agile 1, low mp 1, magic resistance
1, strong nose
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, serpentine
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
You are on level 2 of the Orcish Mines.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.
You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 32 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Bailey.
You have collected 3376 gold pieces.
You have spent 1747 gold pieces at shops.
Inventory:
Hand Weapons
a - a +3 shortbow of flaming
(You took it off a salamander on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
b - a +7 lajatang of electrocution
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
x - a +5 triple crossbow of velocity (weapon)
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
Missiles
e - 547 arrows
t - 144 bolts (quivered)
Armour
g - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
(You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
r - the +4 helmet "Mumiqu" (worn) {*Corrode MR+++ Dex+8 Stlth-}
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Snake Pit)
It affects your dexterity (+8).
It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
It may corrode you when you take damage.
It makes you less stealthy.
v - the cursed +0 pair of boots of Wacedgha (worn) {+Fly rN+ Stlth+}
(You found it on level 4 of the Snake Pit)
It protects you from negative energy.
It lets you fly.
It makes you more stealthy.
It has a curse placed upon it.
y - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
(You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
Q - a scarf of cloud immunity
(You found it in a labyrinth)
V - the +8 shadow dragon scales of Inaction (worn) {rF+ MP+9 Str-2 Dex+8 Stlth++++}
(You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
It affects your strength (-2).
It affects your dexterity (+8).
It protects you from fire.
It affects your magic capacity (+9).
It makes you much more stealthy.
Jewellery
i - a +2 ring of strength (right hand)
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
u - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
(You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
z - a +3 amulet of reflection (around neck)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
Wands
f - a wand of paralysis (?/24)
(You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
l - a wand of iceblast (?/15)
(You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
C - a wand of acid (?/15)
(You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)
J - a wand of scattershot (5/9)
(You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)
W - a wand of clouds (4/9)
(You found it on level 3 of the Swamp)
Scrolls
c - 5 scrolls of magic mapping
j - 10 scrolls of remove curse
k - 3 scrolls of fog
o - 9 scrolls of teleportation
A - 2 scrolls of identify
G - 4 scrolls of blinking
I - 2 scrolls of fear
Potions
d - 5 potions of might
m - 9 potions of curing
n - 4 potions of invisibility
p - 4 potions of ambrosia
E - 6 potions of haste
F - 3 potions of berserk rage
H - 6 potions of heal wounds
Z - 2 potions of agility
Miscellaneous
B - a lamp of fire
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
O - a fan of gales
(You found it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
S - a lightning rod (4/4)
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
Comestibles
T - 38 fruits
Skills:
+ Level 12.4 Fighting
+ Level 11.4 Short Blades
+ Level 11.9 Long Blades
+ Level 12.1 Axes
+ Level 11.5 Maces & Flails
+ Level 12.0 Polearms
+ Level 11.7 Staves
+ Level 12.3 Slings
+ Level 12.3 Bows
+ Level 12.8 Crossbows
+ Level 12.1 Throwing
+ Level 12.0 Armour
+ Level 13.1 Dodging
+ Level 12.0 Stealth
Level 0.0 Stabbing
+ Level 12.1 Shields
Level 0.0 Traps
+ Level 11.8 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 13.2 Spellcasting
+ Level 12.8 Conjurations
+ Level 11.9 Hexes
+ Level 12.4 Charms
+ Level 11.9 Summonings
+ Level 12.1 Necromancy
+ Level 12.8 Translocations
+ Level 10.9 Transmutations
+ Level 12.2 Fire Magic
+ Level 12.8 Ice Magic
+ Level 12.3 Air Magic
+ Level 12.3 Earth Magic
+ Level 11.9 Poison Magic
+ Level 12.3 Invocations
+ Level 13.2 Evocations
You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger
a - Magic Dart Conj #### 1% 1 None
b - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None
c - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ######.. 1% 3 None
d - Cause Fear Hex ######.... 1% 4 None
e - Song of Slaying Chrm ######.. 1% 2 None
f - Call Imp Summ ######.. 1% 2 None
g - Shroud of Golubria Chrm/Tloc ######.... 1% 2 None
h - Passwall Tmut/Erth ######.... 1% 2 None
p - Apportation Tloc ###### 1% 1 None
q - Swiftness Chrm/Air ######.. 1% 2 None
r - Regeneration Chrm/Necr ######.... 1% 3 None
s - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summ ######.. 1% 4 None
u - Dispel Undead Necr ######.. 5% 5 ###....
x - Blink Tloc N/A 1% 2 None
z - Spectral Weapon Hex/Chrm ######.. 1% 3 None
X - Passage of Golubria Tloc N/A 1% 4 None
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 18:59
by MainiacJoe
Maybe I'm fooling myself, but the "incredible" sacrifice of Skill to Ru to put my aptitudes from +8 to +7 feels like I swindled her.
Update YASD, not gnoll related: two shafts, and then an orc band where one party went invisible. I did not pay attention to the details, because orc wizards do that--except it was Erolcha who vanished, then I was banished! I feel like I made a good account of myself, but ended up dying.
As for the gnoll itself, quite fun. Having no control over skill allocation is very effective at encouraging me to respond to whatever the RNG is giving me.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Saturday, 30th September 2017, 21:06
by Fingolfin
MainiacJoe wrote:This soundded neat so I rolled up a nuGnoll on CAO. I'm finding that the skills are not all ascending equally, but it doesn't seem to be like autotraining because my long blades for instance has gone up a level, but polearms is still 0, and in the interim I've wielded a club and a hand axe. I get that I cannot choose where my skill points go, but there seems to be a black box doing the choosing instead. How are SP allocated?
Same here, I got 3.3 Earth Magic and 0.8 Fire Magic as a Tm, I don't get why skill allocation is so disparate.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 01:46
by Rast
New gnolls are fun, but there are some minor problems:
- Manuals take forever to use, so your inventory fills up with them. The real fix is for manuals to not take up inventory space, for all races.
- Shields are too much of a boring no brainer, both because of the free skill and because your weapon skill tends to be good to min delay for a one hander but terrible to bad for a two hander.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 03:05
by watertreatmentRL
re: weird looking skill allocation, "black box" stuff... I had to look at some of the skill allocation code to do hellcrawl kobolds and the mechanisms there are... surprising. Roughly, and I didn't read this part too carefully, it was just a piece of spaghetti code I bypassed, you get some skill points from killing a monster, some scaling is done, and then it goes through a loop over 10 point increments randomly allocating each according to the weight given in the skill menu to skills that are currently being trained. When you throw in all skills and very high aptitudes into the mix, you get very weird, very noisy behavior, which accounts for the ragged skill distribution people have seen.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 13:19
by advil
Fingolfin wrote:MainiacJoe wrote:This soundded neat so I rolled up a nuGnoll on CAO. I'm finding that the skills are not all ascending equally, but it doesn't seem to be like autotraining because my long blades for instance has gone up a level, but polearms is still 0, and in the interim I've wielded a club and a hand axe. I get that I cannot choose where my skill points go, but there seems to be a black box doing the choosing instead. How are SP allocated?
Same here, I got 3.3 Earth Magic and 0.8 Fire Magic as a Tm, I don't get why skill allocation is so disparate.
This has been tweaked a bit since Gn were released and these problems should be gone now. (There were at least two issues: randomness with assigning small amounts of skill points leading to differences over time, and not using the finest grain resolution of skill points leading to big jumps for low values -- everything at 0 would jump from 0 to 0.8 in one go. There was probably also a complex interaction with skill cost increases.)
It's worth noting explicitly that Gn don't start with flat skill points, they get their background+starting weapon boost still, so any differences from that will still be noticeable for a long time.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 14:03
by Floodkiller
Quick summary of changes:
Gnolls no longer get told about stopping/starting training when dropping objects. They didn't actually stop training the skill, but it did turn off the plus on the skill menu and the messages were annoying.
Gnoll skills will now rise evenly. Before, it would randomly assign any leftover skill points if it wasn't evenly divisible by all your enabled skills, which sometimes led to Gnolls randomly getting one non-starting skill higher than others. Now, it will hold leftover skill points back until it can give every skill an equal amount. There were also a couple commits to improve the backend (as advil said) to make it more granular and avoid dumb things like not getting any skill training until XL 3 under this system (as that would have been the earliest point in which you could train every single skill evenly by one point).
Gnolls no longer train other skills faster if they sacrifice a skill under Ru, and
sacrificed skills are no longer trained (along with Stabbing and Traps&Doors). This also
re-enables Sacrifice Arcana, but Gnolls do not get extra piety when sacrificing it.
Finally,
Trog worship/Beserker starts are re-enabled, as Trog has become more forgiving of the poor Gnolls and their addled minds. Trog will not give penance to Gnolls training magic skills (but still hates memorizing or casting spells, so don't try anything funny).
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 21:54
by charlatan
I can finally have a pain weapon with Trog! This is a pretty fun iteration of Gnoll, possibly because it is so strong as a race. And being able to use anything without worry about wasting skill XP is pretty cool as well.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Sunday, 1st October 2017, 23:12
by MainiacJoe
This may just be me being badplayer, but my latest gnoll really wanted more amnesia than I had as I kept finding books and I think I might want to try Sif next time.
UPDATE: the moral of the story is to be more selective in what you memorize. Sif still is SOOOO SLOOOOOOOW
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 05:09
by VeryAngryFelid
I suggest to give gnoll racial amnesia ability. Once per 3XLs, for example.
It won't do much early but will be very useful later. Unlike other species it cannot train exclusively spellcasting to get more slots
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 05:16
by watertreatmentRL
Just give them more spell levels per level. That's how I dealt with this issue in the hellcrawl version. I went further and made spell levels independent of spellcasting (which will probably be removed in hellcrawl before long anyway), but that isn't strictly necessary.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 06:37
by Majang
Here's my update: I splatted a good number of GnEE's before getting the first rune, but all because of my own stupidity. I finally decided that Elemental Caster is really not the best way to start a Gnoll, because there is a fairly long plateau phase in mid game where the early spells are too weak to take care of everything, and the higher-level spells are not quite where you'd want them. Of course you could just use weapons, but your stats do not quite support that.
So I started a fighter of Chei, and this guy had very little trouble making it to U5. Although his INT is well in the 30s, he is still a long way off from casting a level 9 spell, so my earlier prediction is proven wrong. I guess even in my other builds there are long phases where I don't train more than three or four skills at once. Like emikaela said above, rushing high-level spells is not something a Gnoll can do. Certainly a Gnoll would benefit from being able to focus his spellcasting skill. Lack of MP and spell hunger bothered me a lot in this game.
But then, it really is fun. I am tanking along with 30+ AC in lightning dragon scales, with huge stealth (thanks to the boots of the Assassin), one-tapping everything with my staff of earth that doesn't wake up before I reach it, and one-shotting everything with Iron Shot that does.
This brings me to the main benefit of this Gnoll manifestation. If you live long enough to make it to the Vaults, you can try out all these things that you have not been able to try before because you didn't want to risk the skills investment. Now everybody can find out how awesome Bolt of Magma really is, or fighting with an elemental staff. I now finally did try out Summon Lightning Spire and really do like it, as it is so much nicer than other kinds of allies. So I'm sure I will play a few more games with this to see what else this game has on offer, because it all comes practically for free. And this Gnoll screams at me to be taken into the extended game.
But all this means that I get the feeling this Gnoll is really too good to be true. These aptitudes, without ceiling and with these favourable stats - if I were to design this game, I wouldn't let it stand. Something probably needs to happen to get this character down to earth again. All newbies will probably just take this species and never have to learn anything about skill training to get their first win. It shouldn't be that easy.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 07:15
by VeryAngryFelid
Majang wrote:But all this means that I get the feeling this Gnoll is really too good to be true. These aptitudes, without ceiling and with these favourable stats - if I were to design this game, I wouldn't let it stand. Something probably needs to happen to get this character down to earth again. All newbies will probably just take this species and never have to learn anything about skill training to get their first win. It shouldn't be that easy.
Why? Is it really stronger than MiBe who trains nothing but weapon/fighting/armour/dodging all game? Even if it is, what is wrong with adding the strongest species (assuming there is nothing wrong with adding the weakest species like Barachi) ? Gnoll provides unique experience, changes value of many gods, spells, shield, 2h weapon, its versatility is awesome. I like that new players can learn tactics while completely ignoring skill training because autotraining is pretty far from optimal as we know, especially for casting characters.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 07:34
by Majang
I wouldn't mind if Gnolls stay as they are. But I can't believe that they will. Maybe they will if developers allow a species that provides undiluted and unmitigated fun.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 13:01
by Leszczynek
Without reading the comments above, the new gnolls are stronger than even the first iteration. This also means two things: they're fun to play as and they should be moved to "Easy" column in race selection.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 14:02
by MainiacJoe
I think these gnolls are fun. I've also discovered that while they are indeed an "easy race" for beginners because there are no skilling decisions, also makes the import of the one decision you do have that affects skills, background, all the more important. So to satisfy my curiosity I compiled this list. The first column is the total number of skill points given at character creation (based on 0 aptitudes, so these will stay the same even as the +8 is tweaked as long as all skill stay at the same aptitude as each other).
- Code:
1050 Fi 8S I 4D Fgt 3 Wpn 2 Arm 3 Shd 3
1050 Mo 2S 2I 7D Fgt 3 Wpn 3 Ddg 3 Sth 2
1000 As 3S 3I 6D Fgt 2 Sbl 2 Thr 2 Ddg 1
1000 Wr 3S 5I 4D Fgt 2 Wpn 2 Thr 1 Arm 1 Ddg 2 Spc 2 Trl 3
950 En S 7I 5D Sbl 1 Ddg 2 Sth 3 Spc 2 Hex 3
950 Cj S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Coj 4
950 Su S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Sum 4
950 Ne S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Nec 4
950 VM S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Poi 4
900 Gl 6S I 6D Fgt 2 Wpn 3 Thr 2 Ddg 3
900 Hu 4S 3I 5D Fgt 2 Sbl 1 Thr 4 Ddg 2 Sth 1 (javelins)
900 Be 9S-1I 4D Fgt 3 Wpn 3 Arm 2 Ddg 2
850 Sk 3S 5I 4D Fgt 2 Wpn 2 Arm 1 Ddg 1 Spc 2 Cha 3
800 Tm 2S 5I 5D Fgt 1 UC 3 Ddg 2 Spc 2 Trm 2
800 FE S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Coj 1 Fir 3
800 IE S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Coj 1 Ice 3
800 AE S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Coj 1 Air 3
800 EE S 7I 5D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 2 Coj 1 Ear 3
750 Hu 4S 3I 5D Fgt 1 Wpn 4 Ddg 2 Sth 1 (launcher)
750 Wz -1S10I 3D Ddg 2 Sth 2 Spc 3 Coj 1 Sum 1 Trl 1
700 AK 4S 4I 4D Fgt 3 Wpn 2 Arm 1 Ddg 1 Inv 2
700 AM 2S 5I 5D Fgt 1 Wpn 2 Ddg 2 Spc 1 Hex 3
650 CK 4S 4I 4D Fgt 3 Wpn 3 Arm 1
600 Ar 3S 4I 5D Fgt 1 SBl 1 Ddg 2 Sth 1 Evo 3
Wn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It seems to me to come down to, which skills would you like to be boosted for most of the game? For instance, a GnVM was very strong, able to easily cast OTR on D:3, but eventually I'm not going to need that extra poison magic. GnFI is very strong, because your effective skill cap is going to push you towards 1-handed weapons and Fi gets extra Shd skill, but your INT is so bad your spellpower sucks when you find books. I'd think based on the above that As and Hu, and maybe even Mo, might be added as suggested backgrounds for Gn.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 14:40
by MainiacJoe
Another reason Gn would be a good beginner race: it is very powerful early, meaning that new players get to see more of the game before their inexperience catches up to them.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 17:17
by pedritolo
Leszczynek wrote:Without reading the comments above, the new gnolls are stronger than even the first iteration. This also means two things: they're fun to play as and they should be moved to "Easy" column in race selection.
That may not suffice - I think they're in a category all of their own.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Monday, 2nd October 2017, 23:02
by MainiacJoe
I have noticed that gnolls don't cross-train. If for instance I start with some Long Blades skill from my background, I am expecting based on my experience with other races that my Short Blades skill will always be a little bit higher than the other skills that started at zero. I don't think gnolls necessarily need any more help in the early game, but I did want to point this out in case it wasn't intentional.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 00:16
by mibe420
I think this version of gnolls is fantastic!
I love it, everyone I have talked to loves it, veteran experienced players love it, new players love it!
It provides a unique and fresh way of playing the game, the gimmick is unobtrusive and it works well. Ive had tons of fun playing gnolls over the past several days and experimenting with what I can do and get away with.
I played a
gnoll who died on level 24 of a zig, and I won a
gnoll at xl22.
Ill admit, both of my gnoll games got great luck with items, and I think perhaps choosing gods that gift spells may have also changed my perception somewhat. Both of my newnewnewgnoll games were Gnoll Wizards. I think gnoll wizard is overpowered currently, you start with 8 MP, and 8!! spellcasting. You can learn every spell in the book at xl3. You also get to start with 20 int, which is pretty nuts. DeWz starts with 22 and most DE book starts get 19.
I think gnoll might actually be a little too strong, in the early game. Starting with 8+ in any relevant skill is a huge boon and getting tons of XL1 mana points and earlier access to spells sort of makes it really good. I also think that an experienced player can press this advantage well into the mid game and beyond, through the entire game, making gnolls a little bit too powerful the entire time. All it takes is one really good spell or weapon and suddenly you can do the lair branches easily. Newer or less experienced players might not see such opportunities as readily. Towards the end game you can just pick the best spells that have dropped and use the best items, I dont think gnolls get any weaker as the game goes on. They easily have 12 in skills when they finish lair, and 14-16 after getting 2 runes. This is enough for level 7-8 spells(if you have enough int, and light armour) and any 1 handed weapon.
But upon further thought, this isnt really a bad thing. Its a fun race that everyone likes, so what if its a little too powerful? Its a great way to try out spells, abilities, items you never otherwise would! For example my winning gnoll wizard learned 'Alistair's Intoxication', a spell I had never used before, because I had an opportunity to stab due to finding Boots of the Assassin. It seems like a great way for newer players to learn and try out things, and a great way for veteran power gamers to push the limits or blow off steam.
Maybe it could do with a bit of balancing, especially in the early game. And maybe it sort of breaks the way a few things are balanced. (Freezing cloud and other 3 school spells come to mind.) But if everyone thinks its fun and everyone is playing it, maybe its pretty close to how it should be already.
Best version of gnolls yet!
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 02:28
by Floodkiller
MainiacJoe wrote:I have noticed that gnolls don't cross-train. If for instance I start with some Long Blades skill from my background, I am expecting based on my experience with other races that my Short Blades skill will always be a little bit higher than the other skills that started at zero. I don't think gnolls necessarily need any more help in the early game, but I did want to point this out in case it wasn't intentional.
This was intentional in the implementation, with the logic that gnolls would always be crosstraining anyway so it makes more sense to just increase the melee apittudes if they actually need the boost.
mibe420 wrote:Maybe it could do with a bit of balancing, especially in the early game. And maybe it sort of breaks the way a few things are balanced. (Freezing cloud and other 3 school spells come to mind.) But if everyone thinks its fun and everyone is playing it, maybe its pretty close to how it should be already.
Best version of gnolls yet!
If they need a nerf (I'm not arguing one way or the other at this moment), it might be worth taking a look at Fangs 1 which might be causing too much damage in the early game now that Gnolls start with very good stats instead of average/pitiful:
- Code:
(fang mutation level * 2) + ((strength-10) / 5, randomly rounded)
Not only is it more likely to have better than the minimum damage, it is also way more likely to trigger with the increased strength+dex.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 02:54
by Rast
I suggest the following apt modifications. These are relative to baseline (currently +8):
Fighting -1
All weapon skills +1
Shields -2
Spellcasting +1
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 03:45
by Hellmonk
If species are supposed to be balanced relative to one another, then gnolls are obviously above average power and need to be nerfed. If species are meant to serve as difficulty levels (my understanding is that this is a widely held position among the dev team; I disagree but I'm not going to argue it in this thread) then gnolls are fine, perhaps the best candidate for an easy difficulty species in DCSS. Crawl's skilling system is really obtuse until you've played the game a while. A species that eliminates this aspect of the game is good for helping new players get into it. Everybody here has seen players do crazy bad skilling and most of us have probably done crazy bad skilling, consulted a guide to help with skilling, or even both at the same time. If species are difficulty levels then the ideal easy species simplifies the game in addition to being powerful, and gnolls do this pretty well imo.
Species which are overpowered and don't do this well include Deep Dwarf and Centaur. Both are relatively little-played by new players because they have unintuitive, annoying gimmicks (especially Centaur - does anyone actually like them?). If you want to avoid an increase to average species power, I would suggest nerfing both of these species before taking another look at gnoll balance.
All that said, Gnoll would still be fine if it got human-level stats and no fangs. It probably makes sense to look at the shields apt, though there is at least a tradeoff against the low delay 2H weapons and the good launchers there.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 04:35
by VeryAngryFelid
For the record I don't use any shield (I have just started Snake) because my best weapon is a halberd (no good gifts from Oka yet despite faith) so arguably there is no need to nerf Shields aptitude.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 08:18
by 4Hooves2Appendages
Hellmonk wrote:(especially Centaur - does anyone actually like them?)
Yep.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 12:17
by thevogonpoet
My
current GnEn dumpis not accessable right now (is underhound where I am meant to find my CLAN dump, it seems to not work like, most of the time, but CLAN itself is fine), but if you want Gn to be more of a use what you get from the floor kinda guy, more spell levels, or an amnesia ability, would be great.
((My enchanter went Kiku, and has loads of necromancy spells he would like, competing with BoFire, freezing cloud, shadow creatures, translocations, etc. I will amnesia dazzling spray, and I know I should amnesia tukima's dance or whatever its called, but then I find Sonja, and Rupert, and distortion weilding Nagas, and there are all those Vaults guys with weapons coming up next... stupid spell is too fun to be forgotten))
tl;dr: would gladly have all other skill apts adjusted down to +6 to get spell casting up to +10
Also: fun race is fun
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 14:55
by MainiacJoe
Update to my amnesia thoughts from above: I've decided that the best plan (absent Sif) is to only memorize spells you'll be likely to use for a large chunk of the game. So my GnVM found Callings one level above the Lair stairs. Even though I could cast Imp now and Canine soon, I waited and just leaned IB and Spire, because I thought that eventually I'd not want Imp or Canine anymore, and I didn't need them at the time to survive. So while there is certainly an element of TRY ALL THE SPELLS!!!!! there is also learning curve in managing the opportunity cost of spell levels available. In this way, I think it is good for both novices to gain exposure to novel spells, but also good for skilled players who can develop a very robust spell set that other races' skilling doesn't easily allow. Increasing Spellcasting to give more levels is IMO short-term fun for the newbies at the expense of fewer interesting choices and replayability for the species.
Re: Bultungin/Gnoll Feedback
Posted:
Tuesday, 3rd October 2017, 20:38
by ohmi
My reaction is the same as most here - I really like the new game play and I noticed many of the points already made:
Amnesia is much more valuable and important
Background choice means permanent +s for those skills -- min delay comes much sooner for melee than spellcasters and that's good to know.
Found branded weapons are more important and usable throughout the game
Buckler is a no brainer for lots of the game but bigger shields seem less useful.
Wanderer can generate particularly interesting combinations that can survive early
Staves with melee effects have greater utility
Agree that Elemental starts aren't as good as VM or Wz
Chei is stronger earlier because any found low level spells could be immediately useful
Definitely Easy
I haven't gotten a rune yet, but have been thoroughly enjoying all the games so far.
Console UI tweak: I would like the n level up to level-x messages to be collapsed if n > 4.
Manuals: One can argue this as an intentional weakness -- manuals simply don't work as fast
Spellcasting: I'm not sure we need MORE levels sooner -- again, it's a trade-off for the species?
Sif Muna: From a flavor perspective, Gnolls should earn Sif Muna rewards as fast or faster than any other species/background/skill% as befits their aptitudes.