Apt changing race

[Rast]

This is a suggestion that could be grafted onto an existing species or form the base for a new species. It only covers skill apts and how they change during the game.

* Starting apts either all 0 like human or all -1 like demigod, depending on how difficult you want the race to be.
* Nothing special happens until XL 5, to cut down on scumming.
* At that levelup and each subsequent levelup, pick one spell school apt to increase by 1 and a different spell school apt to decrease by 1. Then pick a weapon or UC skill to increase by 1 and a different weapon/UC skill to decrease by 1. Then pick one of the remaining skills to increase by 1 and a a different remaining skill to decrease by 1.
* This increase or decrease in apts would have an immediate effect on total skill level, as with Ru apt decreases.
* The skills chosen would not be completely random, but subject to constraints:
* Don't increase a skill already at +3 or decrease a skill already at -3.
* Picks weighed to give already higher apts a better chance of being increased again, and already lower apts a greater chance of being decreased again, because it's boring for all the skills to cluster at +0
* Don't increase a skill that was decreased at one of the two most recent levelups, or vice versa, as that is super boring.

Thoughts?

[Leszczynek]

Doesn't make for an interesting gameplay. Mummies prove that -2 across the board isn't that much of a problem for winning a game. The skill fluctuation would however make for an incredibly frustrating experience and an incentive to reroll characters over and over again for those players who do think of apts as more than they really are. People reroll draconian colors you know, I can't even begin to imagine how much this race would be scummed.

EDIT: Since this may not be clear enough: you'd play this race as if they had mummy or at least demigod apts. You don't know when your main skills will decrease, so you'll always have to overtrain them to account for this happening. This only adds a confusion factor as you need to think of your 18 Long Blades as being potentially 15 or whatever and train it more accordingly so you don't lose 0.2 auts on your main attack in Zot.

[Rast]

That's a good point. My thought was the player would have to adapt to the apts given, but you're right, late in the game it would just mean throwing more xp into existing skills when they get hit with the random nerf bat.

So, how about this version:
* Apt changes only at XL 5 and XL 10. After that the player knows what he has and can skill accordingly.
* All apts start at -1 (or 0 for an easier version)
* At XL 5, randomly choose 2 weapon skills (UC counts) and 4 spell skills , and set their apts to +1
* At XL 5, randomly choose 3 weapon skills and 4 spell skills, and set their apts to -2.
* At XL 10, randomly choose one weapon skill that was decreased before and one that didn't change, and set those apts to +2.
* At XL 10, randomly choose one spell skill that was increased, one that was decreased, and one that didn't change, and set those apts to +2.
* So weapon skills will be two each of +2,+1,-2, and the rest at baseline
* Spell skills will be three each of +2,+1,-2, and the rest at baseline.
* Also at XL10, randomly choose one of the following: increase evocation to +2; increase both stealth and invocations to +2; increase spellcasting to +2 and decrease shields to -2.

It's even more scummable than before but I don't consider that alone disqualifying.

[kuniqs]

A race that improves skill apts in skills it has trained the most?

[Rast]

No, certainly not. The goal is for the player to have to adapt to the apt changes, much as with demonspawn muts

[Rast]

Another version:
* All apts start at +0, except Fighting and Spellcasting and Experience at -1.
* All apt changes listed below are "Set to X" rather than "change by X"
* At each XL from 5 to 11: Randomly pick one spell apt that hasn't been picked before, set it to -1
* Twice each at XL 5 and 6, and once at each XL from 7 to 11, randomly pick one weapon apt that hasn't been picked before, set it to -1
* At XL 12: Of the remaining five spell apts still at +0, randomly pick two to decrease to -1 and three to increase to +3
* Also at XL 12: Of the remaining two weapon apts still at +0, randomly pick one to decrease to -1 and increase the other to +3.
* So the end result is one weapon apt and three spell apts at +3, and the rest of the weapon and spell apts at -1.
* The defensive and misc skill apts could get changes also, haven't thought those through.

[tasonir]

Doesn't make for an interesting gameplay. Mummies prove that -2 across the board isn't that much of a problem for winning a game.

Mummies having -2 is a major reason why they're so weak. It isn't the only one: rF- is a huge risk early on, and a lack of potions gives you far less panic abilities. But the -2 to all aptitudes is a significant part of it, and if they were +0 everything, they'd be much easier.

That being said at first I thought this proposal was that the player chose which skills to raise and which to lower, which would be interesting because you could raise your aptitudes based on what you have actually found. You found a high level fire spellbook, so now you raise your fire skill and everything easier to cast, etc. Having it done randomly doesn't seem as impactful, as you're probably not changing your whole game plan just because something hit +1 or +2 after you've already trained something else. You'd probably be more likely to be penalized when a skill you have already trained a lot of becomes -2.

[Rast]

That being said at first I thought this proposal was that the player chose which skills to raise and which to lower, which would be interesting because you could raise your aptitudes based on what you have actually found.

Effectively that's like having great apts at everything, because you're going to raise the apts where you plan to spend xp.

Having it done randomly doesn't seem as impactful, as you're probably not changing your whole game plan just because something hit +1 or +2 after you've already trained something else.

I realized that, so my latest version has this at XL12: one weapon apt and three spell apts at +3, and the rest of the weapon and spell apts at -1.

The difference between -1 and +3 apt is huge, especially for weapons.

[mattlistener]

Another version:
* All apts start at +0, except Fighting and Spellcasting and Experience at -1.
* All apt changes listed below are "Set to X" rather than "change by X"
* At each XL from 5 to 11: Randomly pick one spell apt that hasn't been picked before, set it to -1
* Twice each at XL 5 and 6, and once at each XL from 7 to 11, randomly pick one weapon apt that hasn't been picked before, set it to -1
* At XL 12: Of the remaining five spell apts still at +0, randomly pick two to decrease to -1 and three to increase to +3
* Also at XL 12: Of the remaining two weapon apts still at +0, randomly pick one to decrease to -1 and increase the other to +3.
* So the end result is one weapon apt and three spell apts at +3, and the rest of the weapon and spell apts at -1.
* The defensive and misc skill apts could get changes also, haven't thought those through.

So for weapon selection the idea would be to under-invest as much as you can stand until level 12 when you find out what you're good at? (Or just ignore it and plan around -1 for your main weapon.)

[Rast]

It sounds bad when you put it that way.

The correct balance of how much to train the best weapon you've found before you hit XL 12 will vary by class and god and game. Remember, each time an apt drops from +0 to -1, you know it won't be your good weapon apt, so you can take that into account immediately. When XL 12 hits, you can then make a final decision based on how you've trained so far and what weapons have dropped.

Same deal with the spell skills, as each one drops to -1 you know it won't be one of the three that end up with a +3 apt.

The numbers are open to adjustment, of course.