Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 08:31

Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Mechanics
This spell hits one target and is smite-targeted (because the meteor would come from above the target) like Airstrike, but checks the target's EV because it is possible to dodge a solid object coming from above. Deals partially-resistible damage like bolt of magma.

Reason
This spell could be a good replacement for inner flame, that one spell nobody likes. It can also strengthen fire-earth synergy (which is pretty weak as it is now).

Advantages
1. Cool flavor;
2. AFAIK there is currently no attack in the game that is both smite-targeted and not entirely accurate, so this spell is somewhat unique.
Last edited by pratamawirya on Friday, 17th February 2017, 09:08, edited 3 times in total.

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 08:51

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

So it's smite-targeted fireball? Cool flavor but you need a gameplay justification. We have enough fireball variants already IMO

If you mean it would be single target, the flavor gets really shitty because what meteor is so tiny that it only hits one guy? And, as you point out, its just Airstrike.
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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 08:59

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Rast wrote:So it's smite-targeted fireball? Cool flavor but you need a gameplay justification. We have enough fireball variants already IMO

If you mean it would be single target, the flavor gets really shitty because what meteor is so tiny that it only hits one guy? And, as you point out, its just Airstrike.

Good critique, thanks.

To make it less similar to Airstrike, it could:
1. Miss (I don't know how hard it is, code-wise, to implement a smite-targeted attack that can miss)
2. Deals more damage than Airstrike, but partially-resistible.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 09:12

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

It might have shape of cross

  Code:
.....
..#..
.###.
..#..
.....


Edit. Or make it Summoning/Ice and shape of a ring.

  Code:
.....
.###.
.#.#.
.###.
.....
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 09:32

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

I think it's interesting because it's smite-targeted and can miss, which are two characteristics of a flaming rock coming from above. If it hit multiple targets, the "can miss" part would look weird.

EDIT: Though, it could work like this...

  Code:
.....
.###.
.#x#.
.###.
.....


The x and the #'s are the targets. The x is the primary one; it cannot dodge the meteor, whereas the #'s can. (This could be hard to code, I dunno...)

This way, the spell would be more than just "a smite-targeted fireball", because it's:
1. Partially-resistible like bolt of magma
2. Checks EV at the outer ring of the explosion/damage

Obviously the level would have to be increased to compensate.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 10:00

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Dungeonmans has a meteor spell, but in that game you mark a spot for it to come down and it takes a turn to actually arrive. Which is cool because you have to plan ahead where enemies are going to be one turn in advance, which situationally can be a bit tricky. Kind of the opposite of Delayed Fireball, I suppose. Fun to combo with abilities that hold enemies still, because you can lock them in place and then call down a bunch of meteors-could have something sort of like that via Gell's gravitas?

If the flavor of calling down something from the sky is too weird indoors, it could also be an eruption of magma from underground.

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bel

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 10:54

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Flavour-wise it's ok, but I don't really see why Fire (or Earth) school needs this spell. I also think that it's not sufficiently different from airstrike. I also don't see what it has to do with inner flame (inner flame is ok, it's situationally useful).

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 13:20

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Inner flame is a spell plagued by degeneracy, as the optimal way to use it is on your own summons. I like this as a replacement, and I especially like the proposed variant that takes 1 turn to hit.

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 13:40

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Inner flame is also a spell which isn't worth learning once you realize how amazing conjure flame is. Most of the time people use inner flame it's on something behind a conjured flame, but all that means is you kill a group of orcs or whatever somewhat faster than if you just cast flame tongue on them a bunch. When you have enemies trapped behind flame the fight is already won, you don't need to "win more" by inner flaming them.

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 14:06

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Wow, I didn't realize conjure flame is so strong....
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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 14:26

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

The second part of why it's good is how most enemies that have enough HP to be willing to walk into the flame(sometimes takes a few turns, it's a random roll if they decide to based on their HP) will get demolished by it. You can kill hydras, death yaks, etc like this.

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 16:06

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Shard1697 wrote:Inner flame is also a spell which isn't worth learning once you realize how amazing conjure flame is. Most of the time people use inner flame it's on something behind a conjured flame, but all that means is you kill a group of orcs or whatever somewhat faster than if you just cast flame tongue on them a bunch. When you have enemies trapped behind flame the fight is already won, you don't need to "win more" by inner flaming them.


Note that for the section of the game for which it is relevant, inner flame can take out things that you just don't have the mana and time to kill with flame tongue, say i have 12 mp and am looking at two regular orcs and an orc warrior, i can blow my whole mana bar on flame tongue and not kill the warrior, behind a conjure flame, or inner flame one of his orc pals and kill all three for much less mp.

By your argument all fire spells other than flame tongue and conjure flame should be removed.

Also while inner flaming things behind a conjue flame wall is a pretty good use, it is not the only use of inner flame.

Inner flame is a spell plagued by degeneracy, as the optimal way to use it is on your own summons.


Note you have not actually been able to cast inner flame on summons in a really long time now.
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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 16:27

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Siegurt wrote:Note you have not actually been able to cast inner flame on summons in a really long time now.

True, but you can inner flame your skeletons/zombies.

Anyway, this isn't really related to this spell, which doesn't have anything to do with inner flame, as far as I can see.

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 16:36

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

This spell could be a good replacement for inner flame, that one spell nobody likes.


[citation needed]

Inner Flame works on manufactured undead, sticks to snakes, your ancestor, and even that most common and intended of targets: That Random Orc Over There. Clocking in at 3d20 for 3 MP, it's a very powerful and underrated spell, though slightly overshadowed in utility by its big brother Conjure Flame.

The actual spell is cute but I think it would be better served as some sort of Ice effect, Fire is kind of overloaded with cool toys right now.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 19:57

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Doesnt wrote:
This spell could be a good replacement for inner flame, that one spell nobody likes.


[citation needed]

Inner Flame works on manufactured undead, sticks to snakes, your ancestor, and even that most common and intended of targets: That Random Orc Over There. Clocking in at 3d20 for 3 MP, it's a very powerful and underrated spell, though slightly overshadowed in utility by its big brother Conjure Flame.

The actual spell is cute but I think it would be better served as some sort of Ice effect, Fire is kind of overloaded with cool toys right now.

Disagree, the only thing Fire does is damage. Every single fire spell that's Fire/Conj does damage. Imagine Stone Arrow/Iron Shot/Lehudib's Crystal Spear, but for the entire spellbook. Even Throw Icicle and Bolt of Cold are different enough to not be a straight upgrade from the lower to the higher.
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Post Friday, 17th February 2017, 22:38

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Siegurt wrote:
Shard1697 wrote:Inner flame is also a spell which isn't worth learning once you realize how amazing conjure flame is. Most of the time people use inner flame it's on something behind a conjured flame, but all that means is you kill a group of orcs or whatever somewhat faster than if you just cast flame tongue on them a bunch. When you have enemies trapped behind flame the fight is already won, you don't need to "win more" by inner flaming them.


Note that for the section of the game for which it is relevant, inner flame can take out things that you just don't have the mana and time to kill with flame tongue, say i have 12 mp and am looking at two regular orcs and an orc warrior, i can blow my whole mana bar on flame tongue and not kill the warrior, behind a conjure flame, or inner flame one of his orc pals and kill all three for much less mp.
Or I could kill one, walk away safely because they are trapped, then come back and do it again to kill the others.

All enemies that will not kill themselves on the flame can be killed fairly easily with flame tongue, it doesn't take that long.
Siegurt wrote:By your argument all fire spells other than flame tongue and conjure flame should be removed.
No, because later on you reach a point where enemies have enough HP(and you don't want to stand by them long) that you want to blow them up from range. But by that point you have also eclipsed inner flame's usefulness. I don't want to use conjure flame or inner flame on TRJ, I want to use bolt spells and spellforged servitor. (And Ignition, now that it exists.) I don't want to use conjure flame or inner flame on a lich, I want to use bursty ranged damage spells. But earlier on in the earlygame/midgame conjure flame already wins you every fight inner flame could speed up, and I'm not going to spend spell schools on something which is basically just convenience-especially since it also makes Fireball level noise!

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Post Saturday, 18th February 2017, 16:47

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

I strictly oppose the removal of the 2nd best spell in the book of flames for this hot garbage.
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Post Saturday, 18th February 2017, 22:13

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

that's sticky flame(or depending on how you argue it, Flame Tongue could be "best" because FE need it to survive the very beginning, then conjure flame #2, but for other starts that find that book it's Conjure Flame then Sticky Flame)

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Post Sunday, 5th March 2017, 06:35

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

Well let's break down the uses of the spells and see where it could fit "best".

1. Flame Tongue
The old standard attack for 1mp.

2. Throw Flame
for the price of 1 extra mp you can hit things at the edge of LoS instead of dying to that first centaur out in the open.
Best use = casting it on sources of water. Kills early game eel threats.

3. Conjure Flame
The best use for this spell is to let the mindless undead walk right into it. They seem to take a lot of hits from Flame Tongue.
Dumb and high HD monsters tend to walk right into it like sheep. Works well with Hexes that can control monster movement in some form. I don't remember if it blocks ice attacks.

4. Inner Flame
A great spell. Works on just about anything, and combos with all the FE starter spells for high damage. Can be used for the whole game. Easy way to deal with early game packs. A combo i rarely hear about is casting Inner Flame, then Sticky Flame on the same monster. When kiting this monster, the IF will go off after the SF kills it, so you will be out of the 3x3 blast radius when it's adjacent to you, and you move away. Of course, movement speeds need to be considered. Probably the only spell worth keeping in the book, as it works with a lot of other spells to great effect.

5. Sticky Flame
What's there to say. It just works great at close range. Great melee dps buff when u graduate from using level 1&2 spells.

6. Fire Ball
What's there to say. It just works great at range.

So in conclusion, your spell would best replace the level 2 spell, throw flame.
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Post Monday, 6th March 2017, 05:59

Re: Proposal: lv. 3 Fire/Earth Spell, Meteor

pratamawirya wrote:This spell could be a good replacement for inner flame, that one spell nobody likes.

Inner flame is a good spell that generats a lot of !fun!. My last VpFE used it 160 times!

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