Make swiftness spriggan speed.


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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 16:49

Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Currently it reduces movement delay by 25%. It should just straight up make your delay .6. The spell already has a downside to prevent it from being stupid overpowered.

Making it spriggan speed lets it be used to outrun hasted enemies as well as adders, increasing its utility. However, the detrimental effect means you still have to get close enough to the stairs before using it to get away, so it's not a braindead strategy by any means. Any problems with stairdancing aren't made significantly worse by this spell, and even if they were it still wouldn't be the spell's fault that such a degenerate strategy exists.

For reference, the only things a spriggan cannot outrun before the end of lair are I believe Killer Bees and Black Mambas.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 16:54

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

I would remove the spell instead. It is boring and time-consuming to run away to stairs and have a guaranteed way to escape there.
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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 17:02

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I would remove the spell instead. It is boring and time-consuming to run away to stairs and have a guaranteed way to escape there.


You have to be close enough in the first place. Swiftness cannot carry you all the way to the stairs unless you do nothing but stay right by them, which is an issue with stairdancing itself.
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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 17:09

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I would remove the spell instead. It is boring and time-consuming to run away to stairs and have a guaranteed way to escape there.

Sure, I agree, but what happens to Charms once its removed?
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 17:36

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Charms is already barely a spell school.

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 18:15

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Swiftness cannot carry you all the way to the stairs


It can. You can walk 200+ tiles at normal speed and cast Swiftness once when stairs are in your view. I mean swiftness can bring the whole level close to stairs. I don't use Swiftness even when trying to play optimally, it is close to cheating IMHO.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 18:32

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I don't use Swiftness even when trying to play optimally, it is close to cheating IMHO.

I only use Swiftness when I'm in deep trouble and need it to survive. I almost always memorize it when I find it but end up casting it under 5 times.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 18:49

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Sprucery wrote:I only use Swiftness when I'm in deep trouble and need it to survive. I almost always memorize it when I find it but end up casting it under 5 times.


Yes, that's what I meant. It's like playing Felid in body armour and with weapon.
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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 20:44

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
PowerOfKaishin wrote:Swiftness cannot carry you all the way to the stairs


It can. You can walk 200+ tiles at normal speed and cast Swiftness once when stairs are in your view. I mean swiftness can bring the whole level close to stairs. I don't use Swiftness even when trying to play optimally, it is close to cheating IMHO.


That's valid, but has nothing to do with my suggestion. That's if you're fighting a speed 10 monster. Swiftness already does exactly what you mentioned to a speed 10 monster.

If you walk 200 steps with an adder chasing you on D:2, you are almost guaranteed to die. I assume you meant 20 steps (200 auts), but even then an adder will still mess you up.

My suggestion just makes it possible to escape from adders and hasted speed 10 monsters.

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 21:12

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

I was talking about normal speed monsters and 200 steps. Great that we have fast monsters like adder.
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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 21:19

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I was talking about normal speed monsters and 200 steps. Great that we have fast monsters like adder.


Well please don't talk about that, because it's off-topic. Your first post was fine because you were explaining the reasoning behind your opinion, but whether or not swiftness should be removed and how it affects normal-speed monsters are not parts of this thread.

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 22:18

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid is trying to politely explain to you that Swiftness is already "stupid overpowered". If you want to make it even better, you should come up with a better justification than "I want Swiftness to be better".

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 22:54

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

duvessa wrote:VeryAngryFelid is trying to politely explain to you that Swiftness is already "stupid overpowered". If you want to make it even better, you should come up with a better justification than "I want Swiftness to be better".


It's intended use is to put distance between the player and monsters, and it should be able to do this against the more dangerous early game threats, since, you know, it's an emergency spell

This change has no bearing on the part of the spell that's actually considered overpowered, which is that you can effectively "extend" the duration against speed 10 monsters and then run up a flight of stairs to safely. You can already do this with blink by retreating to a cleared area, except with blink you don't take another attack. Should we remove blink too?

It's easy enough to balance Swiftness by just making it drain the player in addition to its already detrimental effect.

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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 23:07

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Well, giving it Sp speed is like bringing back a pseudo haste 4 levels lower.
Maybe that may a bit excessive
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Post Monday, 27th February 2017, 23:21

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Should we remove blink too?

Sounds good to me.

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Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 02:47

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Elitist wrote:Sure, I agree, but what happens to Charms once its removed?

It gets rejoined with Hexes into Enchantments. Spectral Weapon becomes 4th level or shares a school with Summoning.

Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 03:59

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:It is boring and time-consuming to run away to stairs and have a guaranteed way to escape there.


Can the devs just remove Translocations already? Especially PoG, how is that even a spell? Let alone a level 4 single school that screams of a no-brainer no matter how you look at it

duvessa wrote:VeryAngryFelid is trying to politely explain to you that Swiftness is already "stupid overpowered"


Spells being overpowered are somehow tolerated, no? Then there should be nothing wrong with making a tiny buff since it's already strong. It's not like they'll be moving 10x faster than a Spriggan if this gets through and the drawback part is already settled and very solid.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 05:33

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

Yes, I would change/remove Blink, Passage of Golubria and Controlled Blink too.
Blink should have a chance to blink you into a tile you cannot see (so you cannot have very easy time after turning around a corner or closing a door).
Passage of Golubria must take as much time to cast as Passwall, probably even more (or depend on distance), because it can move you much further and works everywhere no matter if there are rock walls around or not.
Controlled Blink must give temporary -Tele status or drain all MP so you would not be able to cast it several times in a row.
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Post Tuesday, 7th March 2017, 14:38

Re: Make swiftness spriggan speed.

This suggestion sounds like the dawning of the age of the NaAE

Swiftness, even with the drawback, is also much, much better than Blink ever could hope to be. In fact, Blink isn't even playing the same game. To compare them in the context of buffing Swiftness doesn't make a ton of sense

And I think Blink sucks and should be changed

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