Aut scoring

[ONIchinchin]

You're talking about buffing and nerfing things, which no one has proposed

What part of x>=speed 10 chars getting advantage compared to x<speed 10 chars in this kind of scoring do you not understand? These are a buff and nerf like any other and aut scoring affects not just speedruns but every single win in Crawl since it's just another method of playing. Giving further advantages to already advantaged x>=speed 10 chars in terms of survival introduces further imbalance.

Speed < 10 is an advantage for speedrunners

It isn't. You can't win if you die and dying without the privilege of zero cost walking away is way too easy that's why this kind of playstyle is labelled as a challenge.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Giving further advantages to already advantaged x>=speed 10 chars in terms of survival introduces further imbalance.

Fast species are easy difficulty, IMHO it is reasonable that they would get higher score. The best solution for that would be to classify all species into difficulty levels (which they really are) and multiply scores by difficulty coefficients.

[bel]

The supposed problems with turn scoring could be eliminated by (a) removing breadswinging (b) reverting the regen commit I linked to above.

From what I understand, in the past, these things were kept in the game because speedrunning is not considered of any importance while making changes. This can be read in two ways:

- There's no problem with turn scoring, because the two things I listed above aren't important
- There's no problem with aut scoring, because the two things I listed above aren't important. Also, the other things I listed (like repeatedly casting spider form while exploring on a Naga) aren't important either.

Perhaps the best solution would be to remove score. It doesn't really capture anything meaningful. For instance, a 20k turn 3-rune win has a lower score than a 100k turn 15-rune win.

[johlstei]

You're talking about buffing and nerfing things, which no one has proposed

What part of x>=speed 10 chars getting advantage compared to x<speed 10 chars in this kind of scoring do you not understand? These are a buff and nerf like any other and aut scoring affects not just speedruns but every single win in Crawl since it's just another method of playing. Giving further advantages to already advantaged x>=speed 10 chars in terms of survival introduces further imbalance.

Wait what? Playing for score means you're speedrunning. That's what score is, for the most part - a measure of how well you speedran, given the number of runes you collected. It's a bit more complicated than that, but it makes no sense to talk about it without speedrunning as the context, whether you call it that or not.

You absolutely can win if you die - you roll another character and try again. That's the nature of how speedrunning works. If you never die on a speedrunning attempt, you're playing too safely to be competitive.

I do like the change to make regeneration use at most 10 aut of any action, but now we're changing the actual game to suit scoring instead of just changing scoring itself. I don't think it's an especially bad change though and it's much less of a change to speedrunning goals than aut scoring.

Removing score and just listing the runes, auts taken, and turns taken of each game is probably a reasonable course of action. That way what your "score" is entirely determined by the community at the time. This nicely separates mechanism from policy, with the game providing the former and the community providing the latter.

[ONIchinchin]

You absolutely can win if you die

I absolutely want whatever this guy's having

So there's one person who implies that there's something wrong with the current system of giving more multiplier for getting more runes than turncount...
And another one who unironically thinks that Survival = HP not equal to 0 is not the most important part of both winning and speedrunning.

I think I've already pointed out some major flaws of this scoring system. I can give a whole lot more but seeing as what I've mentioned so far are unchallenged, I think going further is just pointless.

[pseudopseudonymous]

If chei is one of the best gods for turn count why can't it be one of the worst for aut count? I mean you could work around it but does it matter. Anyway why switch if what's currently working is good. Could always run aut scoring as seperate measure