The Tavern

The purpose of this god (gonna call it @ for now) is to encourage players to experience god wrath, and to give the player a unique set of single-use powers. To some degree, TSO/Zin accomplish the god-wrath thing, but they aren't worth switching to in a 3-5 rune game (and 15 rune games aren't particularly appealing imo).

So: Altars to @ may appear on levels w/ runes. To join @, you must have full piety with another god. I imagine that Gozag/Xom worshipers wouldn't be accepted, and @ is evil (so you have to face good god wrath). @ does not have piety; all powers/passive boosts are available from the moment you join.

Passive abilities: @ worshipers get +3 to all defenses and +3 to slaying. Numbers can be tweaked if this is not powerful enough to ever justify sacrificing your god. Could, for example, be +6.

Active abilities: @ worshipers get 3 single-use active abilities.
Brood of @: summons a powerful randompanlord style ally, which does not expire and which cannot leave the level.
Blood of @: Fully heals HP/MP, and makes the player invincible for a short period of time.
Breath of @: Makes the player invisible and hasted, until they leave the level.

Right now I am not sure if the god is balanced, so tips on balance are welcome. Feedback on the core design is likewise welcome.

While the idea of a god that only accepts worshipers who already worship a different god is interesting, I would never choose this particular god even if I didn't have to deal with wrath from another. The passive abilities, while nice, are not enough be worth worshiping on their own, and the 3 abilities, while powerful, being one-time use only means that for the vast majority of the game, they may as well not exist.

Also, I would waive the full piety requirement to join, as it doesn't seem necessary, and it would be awkward with certain gods and with piety decay in general.

I like the idea!

How about preventing the wrath of other gods from timing out while you worship @?

That might make the god really good for the orb run, which might or might not be a problem.

I don't get it. Why would I risk a god wrath for inconsequential and boring benefits when other Gods do it better? If you attempt to raise numbers, it'll just be ugly design equivalent to wearing a randart; something like Heroism but worse.

@Nekoatl: I have minimal experience swapping gods (except for a couple Oka/Trog-->TSO swaps for extended), so I was unsure how powerful this god needed to be to be at least a tempting option. +6 to all defenses and to slaying would be quite powerful, but an issue w/ @'s design is that you can't make it so powerful that swapping becomes a no-brainer. I disagree with your "for the vast majority of the game, [one-time abilities] may as well not exist" argument based on my experience w/ Borg's Revivification which (in my opinion) makes a character feel more powerful/resilient even if you never actually cast it.

@chequers: How would unending god wrath be beneficial during the orb run? Unending god wrath could be cool, but in some cases it would be miserable (Hepl) and @ would probably have to be a lot more powerful to compensate.

@ONIchinchin: Ideally the active abilities make this god unique and powerful (not sure that this is the case as-written). However, @ would probably be at least somewhat of a challenge god. It is definitely problematic that the player requires spoilers to asses the danger of god wrath, given that you can't experiment with @ until you've already invested considerable time in a character. It's also worth noting that I don't want the #s to be pumped too much for a reason you touched on: generic character buffing is the main benefit of several other gods already (oka, ash, chei, etc).

Does anyone know if god wrath is more lenient at lower xls?

Many gods' wrath scales with XL. But it's not a good idea to abandon gods at low XL because you're weaker and even a weaker wrath effect is more likely to kill you.

The idea of encouraging abandoning gods sounds cool, but the current god powers seem boring to me.

The simple mechanics and one time abilities makes me think of an item that sacrifices the god slot rather than a full god. Call it the Amulet of the Heretic or something. See this old proposal for inspiration.

Regarding the proposed abilities, it feels that if the god is always available, there will always be a point in the game when a player would think, "hmm if I switch to this god now, I can rely on the one time abilities to win". That point will change from game to game, but as currently designed this god will be a consideration in *every* game. IMO it should be rare spawn for this reason.

My complaint with the passive abilities is not just about power level, especially since you said the numbers weren't final. It's more an issue that they're all bonuses that can be provided by items, and I expect gods to offer something qualitatively different. Also, this isn't necessarily a problem, but the slaying bonus is limited to weapon/unarmed combat, which limits the appeal of the bonuses to characters who rely more on other skills. A bonus to all skills that could exceed the cap of 27 could be unique enough to justify the switch, especially to extended game characters who actually have enough XP to cap skills... but I'm not sure that would fly, as the entire game is designed around the expectation that skills can't go beyond 27.

Having an extra panic button or three may feel reassuring, but if you play less cautiously because of that reassurance, then you risk wasting them unnecessarily. If you're not playing less cautiously, then you're playing as you would if you didn't have the abilities, except at the times you use them. I'm not saying that the abilities wouldn't be very nice to have at those times, it's just that for the rest of the game, the passive abilities would be all you're using, so they need to be worthwhile on their own. Generally god abilities that can only be used once provide some benefit that lasts the rest of the game, like branding a weapon or gifting a spellbook, and those come alongside other benefits that aren't available from items.

You can cheese this god by abandoning one of the good gods, or Xom.

Hm, i like the "god wrath" god, which is intended as a late game god, so what if:

1. Only accepts worship from worshippers from piety gaining and using gods.
2. Puts you under permanant god wrath from that god.
3. You retain all features and benefits from the god you abandoned, but piety costing abilities no longer cost piety, you don't keep getting gifts from the original god, however.
4. You get some unique benefits from this god. (Presumably not super powerful, since stealing your original gods powers and using them for free is a pretty big benefit)
5. You can only start mollifying you original god by abandoning this one (losing all benefits from both and putting you in wrath from both until both are mollified)

That sounds really cool, especially when you consider that it's possible to have wrath from multiple gods at once.