New background idea: "Disciple"

[dolemite99]

This has probably been kicked around in some fashion in the past, or perhaps attempted, built and scrapped, but here goes.

Character starts in some 'extra-dimensional'
version of the ecumenical Temple, with all Temple gods available.

You pick a God and leave via a portal to D:1. At that point the game builds you a somewhat "randomized" starting kit:
* Low tier unenchanted gear, and no consumables. Like a robe, a club and some stones. Or leather armour and a dagger.
* Some randomized skills and distribution of STR/DEX/INT, adjusted for your species aptitudes and taking into account any rules that your god enforces, like "no magic skills if you took Trog', or 'No Invocations if you took Vehumet'.
* Maybe a L1 spell memorized, of any school not forbidden by your god (Like no necromancy on a TSO start.). No spells for Trog starts of course. I suppose Sif followers would have to get a spell or they'd have a tough time building any piety?
* For challenge purposes, start at zero piety with your chosen god.

The flavor theme here is that you are highly devoted to your chosen deity and willing to risk a very rough beginning setup to prove yourself worthy of their attention. Someone choosing this background would have to risk the RNG giving them very limited ability to kill D:1 monsters.

I'm not sure how to deal with certain OP species in this scenario ... would this result in "Troll takes Okawaru start, focuses UC exclusively, hits * piety by D:2, gets gifted some dragon armour by Lair and then steamrolls the rest of the game?"

Anyway, have at it, let's see if this is a non-starter or may have potential. I have zero coding skills and no gaming design experience background but after 7+ years of DCSS'ing I thought this might be an interesting twist on Crawl.

[dracos369]

This is essentially a zealot background for a god of your choosing. Weren't devs against more zealots? Weren't most zealots removed?

[dolemite99]

This is essentially a zealot background for a god of your choosing. Weren't devs against more zealots? Weren't most zealots removed?

I do remember the days when Death Knight and Priest were available backgrounds. I know they had very fixed/limited available gods to begin with, wasn't it just Ely and Beogh for Priest, and Yred for DK? I am forgetting the Dev reasoning for their removal but I am sure someone will chime in here.

[ion_frigate]

This is essentially a zealot background for a god of your choosing. Weren't devs against more zealots? Weren't most zealots removed?

It's more like "slighty nerfed Wanderer with a god."

I'd say take a cue from the other class proposal up right now (Archaeologist) and just make the start really crappy instead of random. Something like a robe and a club, with crappy stats and no skills.

I will also point out that, unless it's changed, zero piety means excommunication. I think you should just start with normal starting piety.

Regardless of all that, though, I'm not optimistic about this making it in. As dracos369 said, the devs are against more zealots, and I don't think that even a really challenging start gets around the issues you yourself have mentioned - some species/god combinations are just going to steamroll the early game, and are therefore forbidden with good reason.

[dolemite99]

This is essentially a zealot background for a god of your choosing. Weren't devs against more zealots? Weren't most zealots removed?

It's more like "slighty nerfed Wanderer with a god."

I'd say take a cue from the other class proposal up right now (Archaeologist) and just make the start really crappy instead of random. Something like a robe and a club, with crappy stats and no skills.

I will also point out that, unless it's changed, zero piety means excommunication. I think you should just start with normal starting piety.

Regardless of all that, though, I'm not optimistic about this making it in. As dracos369 said, the devs are against more zealots, and I don't think that even a really challenging start gets around the issues you yourself have mentioned - some species/god combinations are just going to steamroll the early game, and are therefore forbidden with good reason.

I'd be fine with guaranteed crappy starting gear, skill kit and non-randomized stats. I would say this possible background would be no more OP than a Berserker is today. Personally I'd rather have this new background available, have Berserker and Abyssal Knight backgrounds removed, make Lugonu a Temple-eligIble god, and if I really missed playing Trog or Lugonu, start out as some non-book background and hope for an altar by or within Temple.

[chequers]

Zealots have been removed because they didn't add much to the game, and took away more.

Zealots add to the game a way to experience the game with a chosen god from d:1, rather than ~d:4. This experience doesn't really add much to the experience of most gods. In exchange, you give up the need to pick a god based on the order of altar appearance, the game gets a little easier, and altars become irrelevant. It's not a good tradeoff, in terms of aggregate fun.

[dolemite99]

Zealots have been removed because they didn't add much to the game, and took away more.

Zealots add to the game a way to experience the game with a chosen god from d:1, rather than ~d:4. This experience doesn't really add much to the experience of most gods. In exchange, you give up the need to pick a god based on the order of altar appearance, the game gets a little easier, and altars become irrelevant. It's not a good tradeoff, in terms of aggregate fun.

I can see your point, I'm just wondering if there is some reason Ak and Be still exist as starting backgrounds if the majority-held developer philosophy is that it's not good to start the game with a pre-selected god? I do not propose scrapping those backgrounds without replacing them with something. Maybe other backgrounds are being considered for future introduction in trunk or in an experimental branch.

In my opinion, having a choice of starting the game as a Demonspawn of Kiku, with crummy gear and hoping I find a good weapon before D:4, might be just as fun as starting as a Fighter with a good kit and hoping for a decent altar sooner vs. later. Or an Octopode of Makhleb, etc etc.

[chequers]

The current zealots are all considered exceptions:

AK: It's otherwise practically impossible (especially for newbies) to play with Lugonu
Be: Easy-mode
CK: Xom

Ultimately, starting with a god reduces the number of important choices you have to make in-game. Which is something seen as a Bad Thing.

[Sprucery]

I do remember the days when Death Knight and Priest were available backgrounds. I know they had very fixed/limited available gods to begin with, wasn't it just Ely and Beogh for Priest, and Yred for DK?

Removed zealots:
Paladin: TSO
Healer: Ely
Death Knight: Yred (originally Yred or a book of necromancy)
Priest: originally Zin, then also Beogh (for HO) and for a while Yred

[prozacelf]

The current zealots are all considered exceptions:

AK: It's otherwise practically impossible (especially for newbies) to play with Lugonu
Be: Easy-mode
CK: Xom

Ultimately, starting with a god reduces the number of important choices you have to make in-game. Which is something seen as a Bad Thing.

I'm gonna riot if CK gets removed. Make me go find a Xom altar like some common plebe?!?

[Midn8]

Pretty Sure that anyone who chooses to play Xom isn't a common pleb.