New Experimental: Cyno Species


Although the central place for this kind of discussion is on the CDO wiki, some may find it helpful to discuss potential requests and suggestions here first.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:05

New Experimental: Cyno Species

Play with webtiles at CBRO (WebTiles build won't be up to date) or grab the branch directly! (OP updated Mar 7, 2017)

Cynos
Cynos are humonids with the heads of dogs. They are quick to train the basics of any skill, but struggle to master any.

Attributes:
7 Str/8 Int/9 Dex
+0% HP/+0 MP/-2 XP/+3 MR per level
+1 Str/Int/Dex every 5 levels

Aptitudes:
"+0" flat aptitude (see below for details)

Mutations:
See Invisible

You have a short attention span - You are very excited and quick to learn new skills, but grow disinterested in them the longer you train them. Your aptitude for any skill is dependent on how many skill points you currently have in that skill, based on the table below:
  Code:
Skill Level   Aptitude
0.0-6.0       +4
6.1-12.0      +0
12.1-18.0     -4
18.1-27.0     -8


Strong Nose - You can sniff out items in a 7 tile radius.

Please provide any feedback you may have about the species from playing it here! In particular, morgue files are especially useful, as well as any subjective feedback on how easy/difficult you felt the early/mid/late game was.

Edit: Cyno are now in Trunk as Bultungin! Someone can make a new thread for discussion if they want, I'll make one later if there isn't one and I'm less busy.
Last edited by Floodkiller on Friday, 7th April 2017, 15:08, edited 6 times in total.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:20

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Wz should not be recommended background IMHO. I know the species is assumed to be powerful early but my game showed that it is very painful to start as Wz, too low Int and HP. I trained nothing but Cj before XL 2 and still have 10% miscast rate.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:35

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Why are its stats so low? ._.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:39

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Wz should not be recommended background IMHO. I know the species is assumed to be powerful early but my game showed that it is very painful to start as Wz, too low Int and HP. I trained nothing but Cj before XL 2 and still have 10% miscast rate.


Recommended backgrounds are currently just placeholders. If you have recommendations as to what they should have, please provide a list and I'll change them. Otherwise, I'll wait to change them until they have reached a revision that it looks like they will not receive any more major changes.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Why are its stats so low? ._.

When I originally created them at human stat levels, they were ridiculously easy and had a very homogeneous end game build. This current revision is attempting to change both with very low base stats. A future revision may raise the stats again, but probably at the cost of something else (like lowering the skill cap).

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:47

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Floodkiller wrote:When I originally created them at human stat levels, they were ridiculously easy and had a very homogeneous end game build. This current revision is attempting to change both with very low base stats. A future revision may raise the stats again, but probably at the cost of something else (like lowering the skill cap).


I mean the only bonus they get is better apts. It sounds a lot like you would find plain ol' Hu too easy as well.

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:59

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Skill cap makes little difference considering 14 is the skill level required, more or less, to win the game (14 in Fighting/Weapon/Dodging/Armour + Evocations). With +2, you can expect to hit the cap with all 5 skills around your 1st rune.
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Rast

Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 15:40

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

PowerOfKaishin wrote:I mean the only bonus they get is better apts. It sounds a lot like you would find plain ol' Hu too easy as well.


Give a list of what bonuses you think they should have, then! I may work some of them into any future revisions if this one doesn't pan out. I will say, however, that having high apts and high stats let me tab a CyFi^Mak to two runes without using consumables, and many of my other test runes at the 8/8/8 and 7/7/10 stat distribution revision were also ridiculously easy and mainly lost because I tried to do stupid stuff like tab Rupert without using anything. If that combination is going to come back, they need to take a hit elsewhere to stop it from being as easy.

kuniqs wrote:Skill cap makes little difference considering 14 is the skill level required, more or less, to win the game (14 in Fighting/Weapon/Dodging/Armour + Evocations). With +2, you can expect to hit the cap with all 5 skills around your 1st rune.

The tentative plan for the next version is to drop the cap down to 10 along with other modifications, but I wanted to let this one have some solid playtesting first to confirm if this is the direction I should take.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 16:03

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Plays like a much much weaker hill orc.

Cool idea though.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 16:35

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Rast/Rast.txt
  Code:
CyGl   
D:11
XL:11
 - Level 13.4 Fighting
 - Level 5.0(5.5) Axes
 - Level 3.1(6.6) Maces & Flails
 + Level 7.3(7.6) Staves
 - Level 2.4 Throwing
 - Level 5.1 Armour
 - Level 11.4 Dodging
 + Level 1.0 Stealth
 - Level 4.2 Evocations


Pretty easy. I tend to pump fighting hard, especially on races with good fighting apt, but that's a personal preference. The dodging was a mistake, wasn't paying attention. I could easily have the laj at min delay if I wanted.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 22:22

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Rast wrote:http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Rast/Rast.txt


XL: 15
- Level 14.0 Fighting
- Level 5.0(5.5) Axes
- Level 3.1(10.3) Maces & Flails
- Level 13.8(14.0) Staves
- Level 2.4 Throwing
- Level 14.0 Armour
- Level 14.0 Dodging
- Level 8.4 Stealth
+ Level 10.4 Evocations


Maxed out my main skills, could have done it much sooner if I'd ignored evocations and stealth. So, theoretically, this is the part where the game should start getting harder. Problem with that is:
* 14 skill in everything is enough to win the game. Laj is at min delay. As others have pointed out, there are many good one handed weapons that can get to min delay with 14.0 skill. Medium shield at 14.0 has minuscule penalty. A typical endgame melee-only character has 25 in armour and 15 in dodging or vice versa; 14.0 in each is OK. The main penalty here is lower Fighting
* Regardless, a late game penalty doesn't make up for the amazing early game with minotaur-like apts. Better than minotaur for hybrid characters, who will be like a combination minotaur+DE.
* If the goal here is an easy-mode character that will allow new players to experience more of the game, fine, but we already have minotaur and half orc and gargoyle and VS.

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Floodkiller
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 22:33

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I really like this general idea.

Rast wrote:* 14 skill in everything is enough to win the game. Laj is at min delay. As others have pointed out, there are many good one handed weapons that can get to min delay with 14.0 skill. Medium shield at 14.0 has minuscule penalty. A typical endgame melee-only character has 25 in armour and 15 in dodging or vice versa; 14.0 in each is OK. The main penalty here is lower Fighting
* Regardless, a late game penalty doesn't make up for the amazing early game with minotaur-like apts. Better than minotaur for hybrid characters, who will be like a combination minotaur+DE.
* If the goal here is an easy-mode character that will allow new players to experience more of the game, fine, but we already have minotaur and half orc and gargoyle and VS.

I think lowering the skill cap might fix some of these issues for goodplayers, but it's worth pointing out that beating the game with 14 skill is probably non-trivial for newer players. I haven't tried this yet, but I find it hard to believe it's really as easy as Gr/Mi/HO/VS.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 01:30

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

archaeo wrote:I think lowering the skill cap might fix some of these issues for goodplayers, but it's worth pointing out that beating the game with 14 skill is probably non-trivial for newer players. I haven't tried this yet, but I find it hard to believe it's really as easy as Gr/Mi/HO/VS.
Have you seen the equipment/spell/god/skill selection on peoples' first wins? A cap at 14 might leave them better off, honestly.

Anyway if you recognize a problem with the game, like the late game being too easy or the early game being too hard, you should really try to work towards solving it at its source, instead of trying to "solve" it in a contrived way for 1 out of 27 species that has the side effect of removing a bunch of weapons and spells from the game.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 01:43

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

duvessa wrote:Have you seen the equipment/spell/god/skill selection on peoples' first wins?

--Be? Chei? Thats legit playtesting for you.(i didnt check, so just wreck me if im wrong on this one)

I will just go with my classic "i dont see the point of this race" opening line. Is it to force hybrid playstyles? avoid extensive grinding? Worship busted gods? Why are those things being embedded on a race?
You shall never see my color again.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 02:40

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Beating the game at all is non-trivial for newer players... the thing that makes this race not quite on the level of the power races isn't the skill cap, but the fact those the power races have extra goodies (regen, AC bonus, hp bonus, high str+retaliate, etc).

The low stats are meant to be a little tough, but I started as Gl (good stats) and didn't notice problems, and then found rings of +5 STR on d:6 and d:7. So I didn't feel it.

  Code:
Rast the Fighter (Cyno Gladiator)                  Turns: 40443, Time: 02:49:12

Health: 120/152    AC: 36    Str: 24    XL:     19   Next: 47%
Magic:  35/35      EV: 19    Int: 11    God:    Gozag
Gold:   1851       SH: 16    Dex: 21    Spells: 36/42 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis +    O - +8 demon trident (vamp)
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    r - +7 storm dragon scales of Vudi Dao {rElec rPois Int+5}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    n - +1 shield {rN+}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    S - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR+ Slay+3 SInv}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    s - -1 cloak of Indemnity {+Inv rC+ Str+4 Dex+3}
rCorr  .          Harm     .    G - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
MR     ++...                    M - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth  +++.......               Z - amulet of regeneration
                                u - +5 ring of protection {=R}
                                W - +5 ring of strength


 - Level 14.0 Fighting
   Level 14.0 Axes
   Level 4.6(13.3) Maces & Flails
 - Level 6.8(14.0) Polearms
   Level 13.8(14.0) Staves
 - Level 2.4 Throwing
 - Level 14.0 Armour
 - Level 14.0 Dodging
 - Level 14.0 Stealth
 - Level 14.0 Shields
 - Level 12.3 Spellcasting
 + Level 7.6 Charms
 + Level 7.5 Air Magic
 - Level 14.0 Evocations


  Code:
14083 games for * (lastyear won): median(ac+ev)=65
14083 games for * (lastyear won): median(sh+ac+ev)=80


At XL 19 I have ten points less of defenses than a typical winning character, but I'm likely to improve on that as I gain more stat increases or find better shield or cloak.

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Floodkiller
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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 02:51

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

duvessa wrote:Anyway if you recognize a problem with the game, like the late game being too easy or the early game being too hard, you should really try to work towards solving it at its source, instead of trying to "solve" it in a contrived way for 1 out of 27 species that has the side effect of removing a bunch of weapons and spells from the game.

I think the idea is interesting in and of itself and does absolutely nothing to fix Crawl's difficulty curve. Personally, I think the early game is and always has been at the appropriate level of difficulty, and that the late game drop-off is/was mostly due to a glut of XP and items in the midgame, but even if you tightened up the latter, I'd still be interested in a species like this. It's a tournament banner that isn't very difficult to turn into a species, and the skill cap can be adjusted to whatever level provides a fun challenge.

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Implojin

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 22:13

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 214950.txt

Lategame was harder than I am used to, not sure if that was the lower AC and HP, or the difference between 0.17 and trunk. Compared to my average lastyear wins, I had 15 less AC and 55 less max HP.

I learned that spell of silence absolutely destroys ancient liches. I learned that spellpower-dependent spells suck hard with only 8 int.

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Floodkiller

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Post Wednesday, 11th January 2017, 01:46

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I rolled up a wizard to see if it plays differently... will take suggestions for what god to pick.

Edit: The weapon I'm looking at for the near future is [D:7] the +9 short sword of Gluttony {elec, Dex+5} (840 gold)

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-444-g3734ce0 (console) character file.

Rast the Thaumaturge (Cyno Wizard)                  Turns: 8148, Time: 00:39:46

Health: 62/62      AC:  5    Str:  5    XL:     8   Next: 97%
Magic:  20/20      EV: 12    Int: 17    God:   
Gold:   167        SH:  0    Dex: 10    Spells: 15/23 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    T - +4 hand axe "Nytet" {drain, Dex+2}
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    H - +0 leather armour {rC+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    b - +0 hat
rElec  .          Reflect  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Harm     .    W - +0 pair of gloves
MR     .....                    (no boots)
Stlth  ++........               (no amulet)
                                V - ring of protection from cold
                                R - ring of protection from cold

@: no status effects
A: limited potential
a: no special abilities


You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You are very hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 8 of its levels.

You have collected 317 gold pieces.
You have spent 150 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 B - a +0 trident
 G - a +3 war axe
 L - a +0 shortbow
 M - a +0 blowgun
 O - a +0 rapier of speed
 P - a +1 battleaxe of chopping
 T - the +4 hand axe "Nytet" (weapon) {drain, Dex+2}
   (You took it off an orc warrior on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
Missiles
 f - 115 stones (quivered)
 o - 22 sling bullets
 y - 83 arrows
 S - 18 bolts
 U - 8 javelins
Armour
 b - a +0 hat (worn)
 w - a runed shield
 H - a +0 leather armour of cold resistance (worn)
 W - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
Jewellery
 D - an uncursed ring of flight
 R - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 V - a ring of protection from cold (right hand)
Wands
 u - a wand of clouds (2/9)
 E - a wand of disintegration (?/24)
 Q - a wand of iceblast (6/15)
 Y - a wand of flame (?/48)
 Z - a wand of paralysis (?/24)
Scrolls
 h - 3 scrolls labeled PAELUMOG MAZY
 i - a scroll labeled LAAREKIQIO
 j - 5 scrolls labeled ROWINO SIGOAR
 m - 2 scrolls labeled UNESOS HIGETOUMI
 q - a scroll labeled YNELEIDAA
 s - a scroll labeled CIHYJA ENTI
 z - 2 scrolls labeled XYELU IMUFUCK
 C - a scroll labeled WOUSUKUMEXE
 I - 2 scrolls of fear
 J - a scroll labeled OPAORUPEUF
 K - a scroll labeled WASALE SYKEAL
 X - a scroll of identify
Potions
 e - a potion of curing
 k - a potion of magic
 p - a potion of agility
 r - a potion of resistance
 t - 2 potions of flight
 x - a potion of might
 F - 2 potions of haste
 N - 2 potions of heal wounds
Books
 c - a book of Minor Magic   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Magic Dart                   Conjuration                   1
    b - Blink                        Translocation                 2
    c - Call Imp                     Summoning                     2
    d - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    e - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    f - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    g - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
Comestibles
 d - 2 bread rations


   Skills:
 - Level 5.3 Fighting
 + Level 4.4 Axes
 - Level 6.3 Armour
 + Level 3.4 Dodging
 + Level 3.2 Stealth
 + Level 8.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 3.2 Conjurations
   Level 1.2 Summonings
 - Level 1.2 Translocations
 - Level 1.7 Air Magic
 - Level 2.1 Poison Magic
 + Level 3.2 Evocations


You have 15 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ###.         4%          1    None
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          17%         2    None
c - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ##....       21%         2    None
d - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ###.....     21%         3    #......


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (7/15)             Temple (1/1) D:7         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 ?   D:7 (

Annotations:
D:2 Terence
D:7 Duvessa

Message History

Found eight altars.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
There is a sacrificial altar of Ru here.
You are feeling very hungry.
Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
There is a glowing golden altar of the Shining One here.
Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
There is an opulent altar of Gozag here.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.

     â–’â–’â–’â–’â–’         â–’â–’â–’â–’â–’
     â–’···▒         â–’···▒
     â–’·_·▒         â–’·_·▒
     â–’···▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒···▒
     â–’▒▒▒·▒▒·▒ â–’@▒▒·▒▒▒▒
        ▒▒··▒▒ ▒▒··▒▒
        ▒▒·▒▒   â–’▒·▒▒
â–’â–’â–’  ▒▒▒▒·▒·▒   â–’·▒·▒▒▒▒  â–’â–’â–’â–’â–’
··▒  ▒···▒▒·▒▒ ▒▒·▒▒···▒  ▒···▒
_·▒  ▒·_·▒▒▒·▒▒▒·▒▒▒·_·▒  ▒·_·▒
··▒▒▒▒···▒▒▒▒···▒▒▒▒···▒▒▒▒···▒
▒▒·▒▒·▒▒▒·▒▒▒·_·▒▒▒·▒▒▒·▒▒·▒▒▒▒
 â–’▒··▒▒▒▒▒·▒▒···▒▒·▒▒▒▒▒··▒▒
 â–’▒·▒··▒▒▒▒·▒▒·▒▒·▒▒▒▒··▒·▒▒
▒▒·▒▒▒▒·▒▒▒▒·▒·▒·▒▒▒▒·▒▒▒▒·▒▒▒▒


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A water moccasin (D:6)
  2 sky beasts (D:7)
  An orc warrior (D:5)
  2 ice beasts
  4 ogres
  A centaur (D:5)
  3 bullfrogs
  A scorpion (D:6)
  2 crimson imps
  2 hounds (D:5)
  4 orc priests
  Jessica (D:3)
  An iguana (D:6)
  Ijyb (D:2)
  4 orc wizards
  4 worker ants
  A worker ant zombie (D:7)
  6 gnolls
  7 adders
  A shadow imp (D:7)
  An ooze (D:1)
  2 worms
  2 dart slugs
  5 leopard geckos
  12 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  2 bats (D:1)
  A giant cockroach (D:3)
  9 goblins
  4 hobgoblins
  13 jackals
  3 quokkas
  7 frilled lizards
  5 kobolds
  A quokka skeleton (D:5)
  A quokka zombie (D:5)
  4 rats
122 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Rast the Cyno Wizard began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 5/5
   102 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
   510 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 7/21 MP: 0/7
  1096 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 26/26 MP: 5/8
  1100 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
  1340 | D:2      | Noticed Ijyb
  1348 | D:2      | Killed Ijyb
  1434 | D:2      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
  1444 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1631 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 34/34 MP: 0/10
  1976 | D:3      | Noticed Jessica
  1982 | D:3      | Killed Jessica
  1982 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  2056 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 11/41 MP: 0/12
  2419 | D:4      | Found Vyodiush's Magic Scroll Emporium.
  2607 | D:3      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  2780 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3010 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  3010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
  3015 | D:4      | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
  3249 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 49/49 MP: 5/15
  3267 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
  3299 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3498 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  3568 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
  3674 | D:4      | Bought 2 scrolls of fear for 70 gold pieces
  3674 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  3674 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  3674 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  3677 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  3791 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  3852 | D:5      | Noticed an orc warrior
  4413 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 13/55 MP: 0/16
  4857 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  4916 | D:5      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  5362 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  5378 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  5387 | D:5      | Got a twisted hand axe {drain}
  5388 | D:5      | Identified the +4 hand axe "Nytet" {drain, Dex+2} (You took it off an orc warrior on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  5618 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Axes
  5618 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 58/62 MP: 14/17
  5762 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
  6852 | D:7      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  7071 | D:7      | Found Uvic's Weapon Shoppe.
  7321 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
  7821 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  7937 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7945 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 |
---------------+-------------------------+-----
Fighting       |  1     2  3  4     5    |  5.3
Conjurations   |  2  3                   |  3.2
Spellcasting   |           5  6        8 |  8.3
Poison Magic   |                 2       |  2.1
Air Magic      |                 1       |  1.7
Armour         |                 3  6    |  6.3
Evocations     |                    1  3 |  3.2
Axes           |                    1  4 |  4.4
Dodging        |                       3 |  3.4
Stealth        |                       3 |  3.2
Summonings     |                         |  1.2
Translocations |                         |  1.2

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Trident           |       |    30 |       ||    30
       Battleaxe         |       |       |    12 ||    12
       Hand axe          |       |       |   132 ||   132
 Fire: Shortbow          |       |       |    35 ||    35
Throw: Javelin           |     8 |       |       ||     8
       Stone             |       |     8 |    31 ||    39
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    88 |   151 |   113 ||   352
       Repel Missiles    |     1 |     1 |       ||     2
       Blink             |     1 |     3 |     3 ||     7
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |     9 |     9 ||    18
Evoke: Wand              |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Use: Scroll            |       |     9 |     2 ||    11
 Stab: Confused          |       |     1 |     2 ||     3
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     9 |     6 ||    17
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Robe              |    13 |     4 |       ||    17
       Leather armour    |       |     5 |    43 ||    48
Dodge: Dodged            |    36 |    40 |   110 ||   186
       Deflected         |       |     6 |       ||     6

User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 195

Joined: Friday, 6th November 2015, 01:35

Post Wednesday, 11th January 2017, 06:48

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

This particular specimen suffered from "early Strorm dragon scales and acquirement" phenomenon, so I don't think I can judge the early game difficulty fairly.
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-444-g3734ce0 (webtiles) character file.

dracos369 the Reanimator (Cyno Gladiator)          Turns: 35398, Time: 04:30:05

Health: 145/145    AC: 26    Str: 18    XL:     18   Next: 22%
Magic:  32/32      EV: 14    Int: 12    God:    Gozag
Gold:   5351       SH:  0    Dex: 20    Spells: 3/37 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    K - +10 demon whip of Uquanen {venom, *Noise Dex+5}
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    q - +2 storm dragon scales
rNeg   . . .      Faith    +    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    c - +0 helmet
rElec  +          Reflect  .    w - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Harm     .    Q - +1 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
MR     ++...                    n - +0 pair of boots
Stlth  ++........               U - amulet of Linearity {Faith Slay+5}
                                j - ring of protection from magic
                                l - ring "Ated" {Int+4 Stlth+}

@: repel missiles
A: limited potential, yellow scales 1, fire resistance 1, strong 1
}: 1/15 runes: serpentine
a: Potion Petition, Call Merchant, Bribe Branch, Renounce Religion


You are on level 4 of the Snake Pit.
You worship Gozag.
Gozag is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 28 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 12543 gold pieces.
You have spent 6614 gold pieces at shops.
You have paid 578 gold pieces to Gozag.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +7 lajatang of Fucoqam {pain, rPois rN+ Int+4}
   (You acquired it on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 x - the +8 quarterstaff "Nuomam" {holy, rN+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead
   and demons.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 K - the +10 demon whip of Uquanen (weapon) {venom, *Noise Dex+5}
   (You took it off a naga ritualist on level 4 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
   It may make noises in combat.
 W - a +6 demon trident of pain
Missiles
 b - 17 javelins
 d - 4 throwing nets
 y - 11 tomahawks (quivered)
Armour
 c - a +0 helmet (worn)
 n - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 q - +2 storm dragon scales (worn)
 w - a +0 cloak (worn)
 Q - a +1 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 X - a shield
Jewellery
 j - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 l - the ring "Ated" (left hand) {Int+4 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of stealth]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It makes you more stealthy.
 U - the amulet of Linearity (around neck) {Faith Slay+5}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [amulet of faith]
   
   It allows you to gain divine favour quickly.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
Wands
 h - a wand of enslavement (15/24)
 o - a wand of digging (20/24)
 A - a wand of paralysis (7/24)
 D - a wand of flame (16/48)
 E - a wand of clouds (0/9)
 H - a wand of acid (0/15)
 R - a wand of iceblast (1/15)
 S - a wand of enslavement (4/24)
 T - a wand of scattershot (0/9)
 Y - a wand of polymorph (?/24)
Scrolls
 t - 9 scrolls of fog
 v - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 z - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 F - a scroll of fear
 G - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 L - 2 scrolls of blinking
 M - a scroll of summoning
Potions
 e - a potion of ambrosia
 g - 2 potions of lignification
 i - 3 potions of magic
 k - 2 potions of invisibility
 m - 8 potions of curing
 p - 3 potions of cancellation
 r - 2 purple potions
 B - a potion of agility
 I - 3 potions of flight
 J - a potion of brilliance
 O - a potion of haste
Books
 V - a book of Necromancy   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Pain                         Necromancy                    1
    b - Animate Skeleton             Necromancy                    1
    c - Vampiric Draining            Necromancy                    3
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Animate Dead                 Necromancy                    4
    f - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
 Z - a book of Burglary   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Swiftness                    Charms/Air                    2
    b - Passwall                     Transmutation/Earth           2
    c - Passage of Golubria          Translocation                 4
    d - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction   Earth                         5
    e - Darkness                     Hexes                         6
    f - Invisibility                 Hexes                         6
Miscellaneous
 s - 2 boxes of beasts
 C - a lightning rod (4/4)
 N - 4 phantom mirrors
 P - 3 sacks of spiders
Comestibles
 f - 22 bread rations
 u - 26 fruits


   Skills:
 + Level 13.9 Fighting
 - Level 11.0(13.2) Maces & Flails
 - Level 7.1(10.7) Polearms
 - Level 12.4(14.0) Staves
 - Level 10.0 Throwing
 - Level 11.0 Armour
 - Level 11.0 Dodging
 - Level 9.0 Stealth
 + Level 3.1 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 4.0 Hexes
 + Level 11.1 Charms
 - Level 5.0 Summonings
 - Level 14.0 Necromancy
 + Level 8.1 Translocations
 - Level 7.0 Air Magic
 + Level 13.4 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Airstrike             Air            ###.......   56%         4    ####...
b - Song of Slaying       Chrm           ####....     1%          2    None
c - Control Undead        Necr           #####.....   2%          4    ####...
d - Dispel Undead         Necr           #####...     10%         5    #####..
f - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #####.....   1%          3    ##.....
g - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ####......   2%          2    None
l - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ###.....     14%         1    None
n - Noxious Vapours       Pois/Air       ##....       34%         2    None
p - Passage of Golubria   Tloc           N/A          34%         4    ####...
u - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ####..       3%          2    None
w - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ###.....     14%         3    ##.....
T - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ####....     3%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:10
 Shoals (1/4) Lair:3        Snake (4/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:11            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:6 *   D:7 ?   D:9 ?(   D:10 (   D:12 }   Orc:2 }[}:

Annotations:
D:9 exclusion: obsidian statue
Snake:1 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have limited potential (max skill of 14).
You are partially covered in yellow scales. (AC +2)
Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+)
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

You see here a battleaxe.
Items here: ))) [
a hand axe; a scimitar; a robe; a glaive
Things that are here:
an uncursed arbalest; an uncursed hand axe; 7 bolts
Things that are here:
a battleaxe of chopping; a flail
Things that are here:
2 bolts; a mace; a robe
Things that are here:
an uncursed arbalest; an uncursed glaive; 20 bolts
You see here a bolt.
You see here a flail.
Things that are here:
a battleaxe; a robe
Done exploring.
You are alive. You repel missiles. Your movement speed is average.
Your attack speed is very fast (and cannot be improved with additional weapon skill).
Your base attributes are Str 16, Int 8, Dex 12.
Char dumped successfully.

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.(..##..............##
(...##..............#
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.(.................##
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.(................#
.(.)..............#
.....#####........#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Bai Suzhen (Snake:4)
  Jorgrun (Snake:4)
  Rupert (Lair:3)
  Asterion (Snake:3)
  13 nagarajas
  Louise (Snake:1)
  Aizul (Snake:3)
  2 very ugly things (IceCv)
  A red draconian (Volcano)
  A merfolk javelineer (Shoals:1)
  A fire dragon (Lair:6)
  An ice dragon (Snake:3)
  4 hydras
  A rakshasa (D:14)
  25 naga warriors
  5 ogre magi
  A merfolk avatar (Shoals:1)
  4 centaur warriors
  A two-headed ogre (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  An alligator snapping turtle (Shoals:1)
  A tengu warrior (D:13)
  20 two-headed ogres
  10 anacondas
  The ghost of mibe the Cruncher, a novice CyGl of Cheibriados (D:9)
  5 shock serpents
  26 naga sharpshooters
  Sonja (Orc:2)
  Nergalle (Lair:1)
  2 salamander mystics (Snake:4)
  The ghost of rageheart7 the Quickloader, a novice CyWn of Okawaru (D:8)
  8 sea snakes (Shoals:1)
  A swamp dragon (Lair:6)
  2 wizards
  8 naga ritualists
  Pikel (D:5)
  2 harpies (Shoals:1)
  4 oklob plants (Lair:6)
  11 mana vipers
  An orc knight (D:11)
  An orc sorcerer (Orc:2)
  5 cyclopes
  3 manticores
  12 salamanders
  6 guardian serpents
  12 naga magi
  Maurice (D:8)
  33 black mambas
  A water nymph (Shoals:1)
  A merfolk siren (Lair:3)
  3 ice statues (IceCv)
  A molten gargoyle (Volcano)
  15 spiny frogs
  2 gargoyles
  8 komodo dragons
  2 freezing wraiths (D:13)
  7 rime drakes
  A tengu conjurer (D:13)
  A queen bee (Lair:2)
  A wind drake (Shoals:1)
  A harpy zombie (D:14)
  8 merfolk
  A golden dragon simulacrum (IceCv)
  10 polar bears (Lair:6)
  4 trolls
  The ghost of grandjackal the Charmwright, an amateur CySk (D:3)
  The ghost of TwoGrow the Cutter, an amateur CyAs (D:5)
  Prince Ribbit (D:8)
  A harpy skeleton (D:14)
  6 slime creatures
  2 hornets
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  A raiju (Lair:6)
  12 blink frogs
  A snapping turtle (Shoals:1)
  7 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  6 hippogriffs
  A shadow (D:11)
  49 yaks
  8 redbacks (D:14)
  2 dire elephant simulacra (IceCv)
  A wraith (D:14)
  7 wyverns
  A spriggan (D:7)
  5 basilisks
  2 fire bats (Volcano)
  3 hungry ghosts
  Grum (Lair:1)
  4 steam dragons (Lair:6)
  72 nagas
  7 wargs
  A harpy simulacrum (IceCv)
  An acid dragon (D:13)
  17 water moccasins
  2 hydra simulacra (IceCv)
  Duvessa (D:7)
  14 hell hounds (Lair:6)
  9 porcupines
  A slave (D:5)
  14 orc warriors
  11 ice beasts
  2 phantoms
  2 sky beasts
  A swamp drake (Lair:6)
  15 black bears
  31 wolves
  34 ogres
  4 centaurs
  18 crocodiles
  2 big kobolds (D:8)
  A wyvern zombie (D:6)
  23 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:8)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:8)
  Dowan (D:7)
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:7)
  10 wights
  35 killer bees
  7 howler monkeys
  9 crimson imps
  4 centaur zombies
  6 lava snakes (Volcano)
  9 jellies
  A bullfrog zombie (D:11)
  3 hounds
  9 orc priests
  2 centaur skeletons
  4 bullfrog skeletons
  6 iguanas
  Ijyb (D:2)
  19 orc wizards
  11 worker ants
  A hell rat (Lair:2)
  A killer bee zombie (D:9)
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  2 hound skeletons
  4 gnolls (D:8)
  13 adders
  A river rat (Lair:2)
  4 shadow imps
  A worm (D:2)
  A dart slug (D:3)
  2 leopard geckos
  56 orcs
  4 ball pythons
  5 bats
  3 giant cockroaches
  8 goblins
  6 hobgoblins
  7 jackals
  9 quokkas
  5 frilled lizards
  A giant cockroach zombie (D:5)
  14 kobolds
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  7 rats
  A bush (D:1)
  A plant (D:1)
1019 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  3 naga warriors (Snake:1)
  2 salamanders (Snake:1)
  2 ice statues (IceCv)
  2 harpy simulacra (IceCv)
  An ettin simulacrum (IceCv)
10 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An unseen horror (D:13)
  A salamander (Snake:1)
  5 dream sheep (D:9)
  A howler monkey (D:5)
  An orc (D:13)
  9 fungi
  17 plants
  5 spectral weapons (Snake:4)
40 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1069 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | dracos369 the Cyno Gladiator began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 17/17 MP: 1/1
   214 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/23 MP: 2/2
   680 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
   939 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/28 MP: 3/3
  1412 | D:2      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  1462 | D:2      | Noticed Ijyb
  1474 | D:2      | Killed Ijyb
  1474 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  2004 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/34 MP: 4/4
  2163 | D:3      | Noticed grandjackal's ghost (amateur CySk)
  2277 | D:3      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  2367 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  2386 | D:3      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  2653 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
  2653 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/41 MP: 5/5
  2663 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  2676 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  2678 | D:5      | HP: 1/41 [ogre/giant spiked club (10)]
  2682 | D:5      | Noticed a sky beast
  2702 | D:5      | HP: 2/41 [hound (2)]
  3118 | D:5      | Noticed a centaur
  3128 | D:5      | Killed a centaur
  3139 | D:5      | Killed a sky beast
  3139 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 28/49 MP: 6/6
  3147 | D:5      | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [mutagenic meat]
  3148 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales. (AC +2) [mutagenic meat]
  3191 | D:5      | Noticed an ice beast
  3200 | D:5      | Killed an ice beast
  3200 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  3318 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 56/56 MP: 7/7
  3333 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
  3483 | D:5      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  3498 | D:5      | Became a worshipper of Gozag Ym Sagoz the Greedy
  3674 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  3695 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  3695 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 50/67 MP: 8/8
  4204 | D:5      | Noticed TwoGrow's ghost (amateur CyAs)
  4215 | D:5      | Killed TwoGrow's ghost
  4289 | D:4      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  4628 | D:3      | Killed grandjackal's ghost
  4628 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  4717 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 74/74 MP: 9/9
  4781 | D:6      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4781 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4791 | D:6      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  5104 | D:6      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+) [potion of beneficial mutation]
  5119 | D:6      | Found Ariuryob's Serpentskin Sales.
  5721 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5731 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
  5876 | D:7      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  5888 | D:7      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  6038 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  6038 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  6062 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  6063 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  6391 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 80/80 MP: 11/13
  6478 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6785 | D:8      | Noticed Maurice
  6804 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  6819 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  6819 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
  6917 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  6932 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  6932 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  6987 | D:8      | Killed Maurice
  7112 | D:8      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  7131 | D:8      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  7131 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
  7212 | D:8      | Noticed rageheart7's ghost (novice CyWn)
  7239 | D:9      | Found Vicsev's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
  7325 | D:9      | Noticed mibe's ghost (novice CyGl)
  7330 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 76/86 MP: 16/16
  7631 | D:7      | Bought a scroll of fog for 28 gold pieces
  7631 | D:7      | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 105 gold pieces
  7908 | D:9      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  7955 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
  7976 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  8002 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  8002 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
  8002 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
  8032 | D:9      | Noticed an obsidian statue
  8120 | D:9      | Killed mibe's ghost
  8237 | D:9      | Found Qoth's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
  8244 | D:9      | Bought a scroll of summoning for 123 gold pieces
  8358 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8434 | D:9      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  8447 | D:9      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  8449 | D:9      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  8613 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8640 | D:10     | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
  8864 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  8979 | D:10     | Found Daucsacs's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  9285 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  9504 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 10019 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 10364 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 54/92 MP: 18/18
 10407 | Lair:1   | Noticed Grum
 10412 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 10422 | Lair:1   | Killed Grum
 11247 | Lair:1   | Noticed Nergalle
 11262 | Lair:1   | Killed Nergalle
 11266 | Lair:1   | Got a steaming quarterstaff
 11267 | Lair:1   | Identified the +8 quarterstaff "Nuomam" {holy, rN+ MR+} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11423 | D:8      | Killed rageheart7's ghost
 12225 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 12361 | Lair:2   | Identified Edeysupt's Volume of Aerial Malediction
 13124 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 13430 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 14113 | Lair:3   | Noticed Rupert
 14121 | Lair:3   | Killed Rupert
 14121 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
 14245 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 88/101 MP: 22/22
 14394 | Lair:3   | Got a sparkling lead ring
 14398 | Lair:3   | Identified the ring "Ated" {Int+4 Stlth+} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14685 | D:7      | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 728 gold pieces
 14686 | D:7      | Got an ancient lajatang
 14687 | D:7      | Identified the +7 lajatang of Fucoqam {pain, rPois rN+ Int+4} (You acquired it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 15328 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15358 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 15830 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 15842 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 15915 | Orc:2    | Found a dark tunnel.
 15933 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 16504 | Volcano  | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 16512 | Volcano  | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 16609 | Volcano  | Noticed a red draconian
 16628 | Volcano  | Killed a red draconian
 16628 | Volcano  | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 17128 | Orc:2    | Noticed Sonja
 17137 | Orc:2    | Killed Sonja
 17230 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 17235 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 14. HP: 79/113 MP: 23/23
 17303 | Orc:2    | Found Enylowk's Book Emporium.
 17303 | Orc:2    | Found Jodyast's Antique Armour Boutique.
 17307 | Orc:2    | Found Ihanidde's Gadget Boutique.
 17307 | Orc:2    | Found Bota's Gadget Shoppe.
 17316 | Orc:2    | Bought a pair of runed gloves for 336 gold pieces
 17326 | Orc:2    | Bought a book of Death for 1120 gold pieces
 17332 | Orc:2    | Learned a level 5 spell: Dispel Undead
 17519 | Orc:2    | Bought a tiger eye-encrusted plate armour for 896 gold pieces
 17529 | Orc:2    | Identified the +2 plate armour "Vafi" {rC+ Str+4} (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
 17606 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 17954 | D:11     | Reached skill level 2 in Necromancy
 18109 | D:9      | Bought a glowing blowgun for 170 gold pieces
 18331 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 18357 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 3 in Necromancy
 18630 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 4 in Necromancy
 18985 | Lair:4   | Got a fine leather armour
 18996 | Lair:4   | Identified the +1 leather armour of the Tired Shrikes {rPois rF- Slay+3} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19640 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 20061 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 6 in Necromancy
 20600 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 20644 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 20666 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 7 in Necromancy
 20772 | Lair:6   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20773 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 21306 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 8 in Necromancy
 21727 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 109/120 MP: 24/24
 21918 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 9 in Necromancy
 21927 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
 22855 | Lair:6   | Identified Muocser's Incunabulum of the Noxious Entourage
 22910 | Lair:6   | Got a twisted scale mail
 22921 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed +0 scale mail "Puathyr" {MP+9 Str+3 SInv} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 23148 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 2 spell: Noxious Vapours
 23856 | D:12     | Found Xetarch's Gadget Emporium.
 23864 | D:12     | Bought a sack of spiders for 280 gold pieces
 23864 | D:12     | Bought a sack of spiders for 280 gold pieces
 23864 | D:12     | Bought a phantom mirror for 420 gold pieces
 23864 | D:12     | Bought a box of beasts for 280 gold pieces
 24023 | Orc:2    | Bought a phantom mirror for 420 gold pieces
 24023 | Orc:2    | Bought a box of beasts for 280 gold pieces
 24023 | Orc:2    | Bought a box of beasts for 280 gold pieces
 24023 | Orc:2    | Bought a phantom mirror for 420 gold pieces
 24023 | Orc:2    | Bought a box of beasts for 280 gold pieces
 24027 | Orc:2    | Bought a wand of enslavement (10/24) for 168 gold pieces
 24321 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Necromancy
 24630 | D:13     | Identified the Papyrus of the Birds and Conjuration
 24633 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 25372 | D:14     | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 25803 | D:14     | Reached skill level 11 in Necromancy
 25994 | D:14     | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Butterflies
 26408 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 27100 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 12 in Necromancy
 27100 | Snake:1  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 77/127 MP: 28/28
 27196 | Snake:1  | Noticed Roxanne
 27267 | Snake:1  | Noticed Louise
 27318 | Snake:1  | Killed Louise
 27901 | Snake:2  | Got a twitching iron amulet
 27902 | Snake:2  | Identified the amulet of Linearity {Faith Slay+5} (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
 28141 | Snake:2  | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 28470 | Snake:2  | Learned a level 2 spell: Shroud of Golubria
 28475 | Snake:2  | Learned a level 3 spell: Spectral Weapon
 28478 | Snake:2  | Learned a level 2 spell: Song of Slaying
 28511 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 10 in Throwing
 29144 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 4 spell: Airstrike
 29227 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 29235 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 13 in Necromancy
 29325 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
 29589 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
 30169 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 30558 | Snake:3  | Noticed Asterion
 30597 | Snake:3  | Found a frozen archway.
 30613 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 31473 | Snake:3  | Killed Asterion
 31473 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 14 in Necromancy
 31717 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 31721 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
 31953 | Snake:3  | Noticed Aizul
 31981 | Snake:3  | Killed Aizul
 31989 | Snake:3  | Learned a level 4 spell: Passage of Golubria
 32156 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Polearms
 32156 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 32440 | Snake:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Snake Pit
 32456 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 119/133 MP: 27/31
 32924 | Snake:4  | Noticed Jorgrun
 32932 | Snake:4  | Killed Jorgrun
 33177 | Snake:4  | Noticed Bai Suzhen
 33335 | Snake:4  | Killed Bai Suzhen
 33383 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations
 33617 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms
 33901 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Charms
 34054 | Snake:4  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 34286 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 92/144 MP: 14/32
 34379 | Snake:4  | Learned a level 4 spell: Control Undead
 35037 | Snake:4  | Got a crystal demon whip {venom}
 35038 | Snake:4  | Identified the +10 demon whip of Uquanen {venom, *Noise Dex+5} (You took it off a naga ritualist on level 4 of the Snake Pit)

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------+-----
Staves         |  4  5                             7 11 12             | 12.4
Armour         |        1  2           5  8 10 11                      | 11.0
Fighting       |           3  4  5  7  8           9 11 12       13    | 13.9
Maces & Flails |           1  3  4  7  9 11                            | 11.0
Evocations     |                          4  7  9    10 12       13    | 13.4
Dodging        |                             7  9 10 11                | 11.0
Charms         |                                4  7           8 10 11 | 11.1
Air Magic      |                                5  7                   |  7.0
Spellcasting   |                                3  6        8 10       | 10.0
Throwing       |                                3  4     6  9 10       | 10.0
Stealth        |                                   2  4     7  9       |  9.0
Necromancy     |                                         8 12 14       | 14.0
Summonings     |                                               5       |  5.0
Hexes          |                                               4       |  4.0
Translocations |                                               2  7  8 |  8.1
Polearms       |                                               1  6  7 |  7.1
Shields        |                                               1  3    |  3.1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Quarterstaff      |   175 |    80 |       |   288 |   214 |    11 ||   768
       Flail             |       |    71 |    70 |       |       |       ||   141
       Whip              |       |       |   317 |   782 |       |       ||  1099
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |       |  1117 |   683 ||  1800
       Demon whip        |       |       |       |       |       |    20 ||    20
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Throw: Tomahawk          |       |     9 |    17 |    69 |   106 |   291 ||   492
       Stone             |       |     3 |       |     5 |       |       ||     8
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |     6 |       |       ||     6
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |    38 ||    38
 Cast: Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |     2 |     4 |    11 ||    17
       Noxious Vapours   |       |       |       |       |     5 |    14 ||    19
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |    46 ||    46
       Shroud of Golubri |       |       |       |       |       |    26 ||    26
       Spectral Weapon   |       |       |       |       |       |    27 ||    27
       Song of Slaying   |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Summon Butterflie |       |       |       |       |       |    13 ||    13
Invok: Call Merchant     |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
 Abil: Stop Singing      |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |     4 |     4 |    19 |    21 |    25 |    43 ||   116
       Box of beasts     |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 ||     4
       Sack of spiders   |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
       Lightning rod     |       |       |       |       |       |    16 ||    16
  Use: Scroll            |       |     6 |    10 |    11 |    20 |    19 ||    66
       Potion            |       |     4 |     2 |     1 |     3 |    11 ||    21
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |     1 |     5 |    12 |     7 ||    25
       Paralysed         |       |       |     3 |    10 |       |       ||    13
       Confused          |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |       ||     3
       Sleeping          |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |    16 |     7 |     2 |       |       |       ||    25
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 |     4 |     8 |     3 ||    16
       Pizza             |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |       ||     3
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |     1 |       |     1 ||     2
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Bread ration      |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Armor: Ring mail         |    28 |       |       |       |       |       ||    28
       Leather armour    |     4 |       |       |       |       |       ||     4
       Storm dragon scal |    21 |   137 |   180 |   420 |   604 |   376 ||  1738
Dodge: Dodged            |    66 |    69 |    82 |   328 |   613 |   383 ||  1541
       Deflected         |       |       |       |     3 |    20 |    67 ||    90
Block: Other             |       |       |    14 |    82 |   109 |       ||   205
       Reflection        |       |       |     2 |     4 |     3 |       ||     9


e: I think they should get a higher tier skill title upon reaching skill 14.
Memento mori

Snake Sneak

Posts: 103

Joined: Wednesday, 10th December 2014, 18:51

Post Wednesday, 11th January 2017, 16:41

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I'm not sure I can say much about this gnoll like species with out another play but I generally liked it.
I did do more than 3 runes because I knew 3 runes would be fairly easy but I did not do hell and pand. I probably could have because of statue form and the gear I had.

I would say it a little stronger than Hu depending on where you are in the game but not as strong as gr, troll, dd, vs, orc, etc.

I think the max 14 apts are fine. I realize that people will think that is OP for 3 rune and I would agree but I think late game it will get fairly challenging (depending on your tactics) of only having a max of 14 with out some serious god help.

If you don't mind ninja runes then 14 is probably enough for hell and pand. Otherwise you probably need some massive buffs (statue form), summons, and god help to take out some pand lords.

Overall I liked the species. Just needs some more novel flavor (muts or something). I recommend +faith as something but that might be overkill.

Full morgue here:

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 154943.txt

Abbreviate here:

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-444-g3734ce0 (webtiles) character file.

4443453 agentgt the Blocker (level 27, 397/397 HPs)
             Began as a Cyno Gladiator on Jan 10, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 6 runes on Jan 11, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 04:23:45 (65908 turns).

agentgt the Blocker (Cyno Gladiator)               Turns: 65908, Time: 04:23:46

Health: 397/397    AC: 30    Str: 16    XL:     27
Magic:  41/41      EV: 37    Int: 32    God:    Ashenzari [******]
Gold:   4792       SH: 20    Dex: 28    Spells: 3/54 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    a - +7 rapier of Sunlight {pierce, +Inv rC- Int+6 Dex+4}
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    (armour currently unavailable)
rNeg   + + .      Faith    .    O - +5 shield {reflect} (curse)
rPois  ∞          Spirit   .    n - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr} (curse)
rElec  +          Reflect  +    B - +2 cloak {MR+} (curse)
rCorr  +          Harm     .    (gloves currently unavailable)
rMut   +          Clarity  +    (boots currently unavailable)
MR     ++++.                    S - amulet of regeneration (curse)
Stlth  ..........               L - +5 ring of slaying (curse) {mikee}
                                K - ring of Eckuwnom {rC+ Int+10} (curse)

@: mighty, brilliant, agile, berserking, statue-form, flying, deflect missiles
A: limited potential, antennae 1, (slimy green scales 0), agile 1, mutation
resistance 1, weak 1
0: Orb of Zot
}: 6/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, abyssal
a: End Transformation, Curse Item, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You escaped.
You worshipped Ashenzari.
Ashenzari was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You were a stone statue.

You visited 14 branches of the dungeon, and saw 62 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 4 times.
You also visited: Trove and Sewer.

You collected 10456 gold pieces.
You spent 5664 gold pieces at shops.


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have limited potential (max skill of 14).
You have a pair of small antennae on your head.
((You are partially covered in slimy green scales. (AC +2)))
You are agile. (Dex +2)
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You are weak. (Str -2)


   Skills:
 - Level 14.0 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Short Blades
 - Level 14.0 Long Blades
 - Level 14.0 Staves
 - Level 14.0 Throwing
 - Level 14.0 Armour
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Dodging
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Stealth
 - Level 14.0(16.0) Shields
 - Level 14.0 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 14.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Conjurations
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Hexes
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Charms
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Summonings
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Necromancy
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Translocations
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Transmutations
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Fire Magic
   Level 2.5(6.1) Ice Magic
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Air Magic
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Earth Magic
 - Level 14.0(18.0) Evocations


You had 3 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   0%          3    None
b - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ########     0%          1    None
c - Confuse               Hex            ########     0%          3    None
d - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          1%          6    ###....
i - Control Undead        Necr           ########..   0%          4    None
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ########     0%          2    None
v - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          0%          2    None
x - Dispel Undead         Necr           ########     1%          5    None
z - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ########..   0%          2    None
A - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   0%          1    None
C - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ######       0%          3    None
F - Ring of Flames        Chrm/Fire      ########..   1%          7    #####..
R - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ########..   1%          6    ###....
S - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      ########.    1%          6    ###....


Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +7 rapier of Sunlight (weapon) {pierce, +Inv rC- Int+6 Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 b - a +9 double sword of holy wrath
 o - a +9 demon blade of chaos
Missiles
 d - 13 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 n - the cursed -2 hat of the Alchemist (worn) {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
   It protects you from mutation.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 B - a cursed +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 J - a cursed +2 pair of boots (melded)
 O - a cursed +5 shield of reflection (worn)
 U - the cursed +3 pair of gauntlets of War (melded) {Slay+5}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 W - a cursed +2 robe of the Archmagi (melded)
Magical Staves
 w - an uncursed staff of energy {!a}
Jewellery
 c - a cursed amulet of the gourmand
 g - a cursed amulet of regeneration
 h - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 i - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration
 p - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration
 H - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 K - the cursed ring of Eckuwnom (left hand) {rC+ Int+10}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+10).
   It protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 L - a cursed +5 ring of slaying (right hand) {mikee}
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 S - a cursed amulet of regeneration (around neck)
 Z - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Wands
 r - a wand of digging (10/24)
 t - a wand of acid (9/15)
 T - a wand of disintegration (21/24)
 X - a wand of iceblast (14/15)
Scrolls
 e - 5 scrolls of identify
 j - a scroll of enchant armour
 m - 14 scrolls of fog
 q - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 D - 2 scrolls of holy word
 I - a scroll of summoning
 N - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 V - 10 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 s - 8 potions of curing
 v - 3 potions of heal wounds
 x - 4 potions of brilliance
 A - a potion of magic
 C - 2 potions of cancellation
 E - a potion of ambrosia
 M - 5 potions of cure mutation {!q}
 Y - 9 potions of flight
Books
 P - a book of Annihilations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Poison Arrow                 Conjuration/Poison            6
    b - Chain Lightning              Conjuration/Air               8
    c - Lehudib's Crystal Spear      Conjuration/Earth             8
    d - Glaciate                     Conjuration/Ice               9
    e - Fire Storm                   Conjuration/Fire              9
Miscellaneous
 k - a phial of floods
 l - a lamp of fire
 R - a lightning rod (2/4)
Comestibles
 f - 7 bread rations


Message History

You slice the ice devil!! The ice devil convulses!!
You kill the ice butt!
There is a stone butt leading down here.
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon butt.
Butt, then.
You feel very mighty all of a sudden.
You feel very buoyant.
Butt fly up into the air.
You feel agile all of a sudden.
You feel clever all of a sudden.
Okay, then.
Your +9 double sword of holy wrath stops glowing.
a - the +7 rapier of Sunlight (weapon) {pierce, +Inv rC- Int+6 Dex+4}
Really quaff z - a potion of berserk rage {!q}?
A red film seems to cover your butt as you go berserk!
You feel yourself moving faster! You feel mighty!
You can't go down here!
You feel a strong urge to attack something.
You have escaped!

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Floodkiller

Snake Sneak

Posts: 103

Joined: Wednesday, 10th December 2014, 18:51

Post Wednesday, 11th January 2017, 18:30

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Ehh just tried again... I'm going to regret saying this but the species is too powerful. I don't know if lowering the apt max will fix it.
Instead maybe make everything +1 but keep fast leveling (I believe it is XP multiplier)?

Gozag is a damn good god but with Cyno it seems to be extremely good. You can bank up an enormous amount of buffs that you can probably use for when the game gets hard.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Thursday, 12th January 2017, 03:04

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

agentgt wrote: - Level 14.0(18.0) Dodging
- Level 14.0(18.0) Stealth
- Level 14.0(16.0) Shields
- Level 14.0(18.0) Conjurations
- Level 14.0(18.0) Hexes
- Level 14.0(18.0) Charms
- Level 14.0(18.0) Summonings
- Level 14.0(18.0) Necromancy
- Level 14.0(18.0) Translocations
- Level 14.0(18.0) Transmutations
- Level 14.0(18.0) Fire Magic
Level 2.5(6.1) Ice Magic
- Level 14.0(18.0) Air Magic
- Level 14.0(18.0) Earth Magic
- Level 14.0(18.0) Evocations

That's odd, I thought I fixed it so that Ash didn't boost skills past 14. This is a bug that will be fixed as soon as I find where the problem is.

agentgt wrote:Ehh just tried again... I'm going to regret saying this but the species is too powerful. I don't know if lowering the apt max will fix it.
Instead maybe make everything +1 but keep fast leveling (I believe it is XP multiplier)?

Gozag is a damn good god but with Cyno it seems to be extremely good. You can bank up an enormous amount of buffs that you can probably use for when the game gets hard.


I feel bringing the apts down to +1 is too close to other flat apt species to remain unique. I would prefer to find another way to make them more difficult.
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 30

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Thursday, 12th January 2017, 10:19

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

How about Skill cap being based on character level? (I'd risk increasing it to 2/3) An even higher aptitude?

Between this and low(er) XP affinity they would have a harder time, no?

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1608

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Thursday, 12th January 2017, 17:40

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

How about this... a race that doesn't gain skill xp normally, but all skills are set to (XL+3)*2/5. In other words, starting the game with 1.6 in everything, gaining 0.4 to every skill at each level up, and maxing out at 12.0 in everything at XL27.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Saturday, 14th January 2017, 04:45

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Deso wrote:How about Skill cap being based on character level? (I'd risk increasing it to 2/3) An even higher aptitude?

Between this and low(er) XP affinity they would have a harder time, no?

Rast wrote:How about this... a race that doesn't gain skill xp normally, but all skills are set to (XL+3)*2/5. In other words, starting the game with 1.6 in everything, gaining 0.4 to every skill at each level up, and maxing out at 12.0 in everything at XL27.


Both of these suggestions would just lead to an overly frustrating early game (lack of getting a good 'kill monsters' skill and lack of defenses). With the first suggestion, it would lead to an increase in the cap for the late game compared to now, which is already considered too high from the feedback I've received. The second suggestion makes me prefer to just play a mummy or demigod with a voluntary skill conduct instead at that point, unless I give the species a massive bonus somewhere else to make up for it.

However, I am looking at uploading a new revision soon, as the current 'low stats' version doesn't seem to be encouraging the type of game I'm aiming for with the species. I'm looking at putting in one of the following versions next to see if that works any better:
A) Raise stats to human (probably 7/8/9), reduce XP aptitude to -4, reduce max skill cap (10-12). Just a straight numbers change, with the emphasis on going for incredibly slow leveling instead of dramatically low base stats.

B) Set static skill level of (10-12) at start of game, disallow skill training. Potentially allow for sacrificing 1-3 skills once every 6 levels (either at random, pick from random, or full choice) to raise the cap/training on all other skills; if I do this, make the static skill level start somewhere around 4-8. Probably keep stats and XP aptitude the same. This method would have to be developed in a way that prevents startscumming or turning the skill system into a manipulated mini-game.

C) Set skill cap extremely low (4-5), add an ability that heavily drains you to increase the cap by 1-2. Maybe raise stats and XP aptitude to make up for it. Eventually removes the downside of the species, and may have an issue with optimal strats of saving easier areas to work off drain to grind the skill cap higher. Would need balancing on when the ability is available, how much drain it should give for each level, etc.

No matter which revision I choose to develop and push, I'll also be adding a flavor mutation of 'sense monsters and items' to the species for the moment (unless it gets bikeshed into something else) that will grow at certain level milestones (TBD). This should help to make the species a bit more fun to play without heavily influencing/affecting their power level.

If anyone has more proposals, feel free to throw them out. Even if I don't like how they are as written, I may want to rework it into something that fits the species design better and use it.

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Deso
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 30

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Saturday, 14th January 2017, 10:57

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Here's an idea
1 - Have aptitudes set to 0 to compute initial skills based on background. A skill tome could increase a skill cap by 1-2 <--- This would keep backgrounds relevant (higher skill cap for some skills and usable starting values).
2 - Remove skill training and and gain skill levels in everything based on level (maybe something like 1 skill every 2 levels) <--- Important to avoid early

I wonder how Xom would attempt to troll this character with gifts... Still this might be the opposite


Another idea:
Aptitudes = 4 (learns twice as fast than humans)
Skill cap = 9 + background modifier (i.e. a Warper would have 12 for translocations "the 3 starting value") <-- adds some value for stating backgrounds (tomes could work as above)
Some god related advantage (Able to change gods without retribution, worship multiple gods, lose less piety, gain twice as much piety) <-- more usage out of god abilities (it has low invocations anyway)
Extra Mana (low spell power/success rate anyway)
Reduced armor and shield skill penalty

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Friday, 20th January 2017, 15:13

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

A new revision has been pushed last night, and will be up on CBRO whenever experimentals are rebuilt:

Skill cap remains 14 until I implement a new system (see below).

Stats changed from 5/5/5 to 7/8/9. Low stats weren't meaningfully differentiating end game builds; either you went high strength or high int and had mostly the same loadout/spell set, or you found enough stat+ to go with everything anyway.

To attempt a different method of making the game more difficult at an earlier point (again, to attempt to prevent a stockpile of consumables from the early/mid game making the lategame trivial despite the skill cap) is the XP attribute has been dropped from -1 to -4. I may tweak this later with a reform of the skill cap (see below).

There were complaints about the species being overly bland: the skill cap did not give enough flavor/distinctness to the species. Thus, I've added a species mutation, Strong Nose. This mutation provides detect items and monsters in a 3/5/7 tile radius, and is given at XL 1/XL 11/XL 22 respectively. This should add some flavor (similar to hound/wolf blood scent, can sniff out danger and treasure) without being overly powerful or stepping on Ash's toes too much.

In a future version, I also plan on revamping the current skill cap system. As a static number, it is either too easy for pro players, or too limiting for casual players. In order to avoid tilting the scale in either direction too hard while balancing, I will be attempting to implement the following change:
-Lower the starting skill cap to a much lower number (probably 9)
-Give the player the ability to sacrifice any 'mastered' skill (any skill that trained up to the current skill cap) to increase the skill cap for all remaining skills by 2
This should allow players to create more diverse builds while still making the skill cap meaningful by attaching the opportunity cost of spending the XP to raise a skill to max in addition to losing a skill. Players who prefer flexibility might prefer to only sacrifice a couple useless skills (say, Poison Magic or Short Blades after the early game) and play through with a lower skill cap, while those who prefer specialization will have something to work towards over the course of the game instead of just maxing out their useful skills early on and picking other skills for filler (but still making this more challenging to do than the average species).
Last edited by Floodkiller on Saturday, 21st January 2017, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Implojin

Spider Stomper

Posts: 221

Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 09:40

Post Friday, 20th January 2017, 20:31

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Floodkiller wrote:Give the player the ability to sacrifice any 'mastered' skill (any skill that trained up to the current skill cap) to increase the skill cap for all remaining skills by 2


Oooh. I like that idea.

It'd be interesting to play a Cyno of Ru, since you'd have to decide between sacrificing skills for piety or for improving your skill cap.
You hear the distant roaring of an enraged eggplant.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Monday, 23rd January 2017, 16:38

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I got the dynamic-ish skill cap thing developed and tested, but I won't be pushing it because it was crap. There was a lot of busywork of constantly topping off your primary skills every time you bumped the cap up, which got annoying very quickly. I'll have to see if there's a different approach I can take with dynamic skill caps, or if I should just leave it static and stick with the fact that some will always say it is too easy/hard.

Joke implementation that I may try just for fun: eat books to increase your skill cap (dog ate my homework). Banned from worshipping Sif Muna.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Monday, 30th January 2017, 14:25

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Cyno changes that I should be pushing today (hopefully) once I work out the bugs and fix my hack coding to at least be somewhat acceptable:

-Cyno XP aptitude from -4 to -2

-Cyno flat aptitudes reduced from +2 to 0 (for display purposes only, see below)

-Static skill cap has been removed

-Cyno now uses a different skill cost table compared to any other species. It bakes the aptitude's skill cost modifier into the table itself to simulate the aptitude decreasing through training without futzing with the experience pools, and displays the current 'aptitude' in the manual bonus column (which stacks with manuals if you have one). The skill costs per skill level will be as if you had the following aptitudes:
  Code:
0 - 3: +3
3.1 - 6: +2
6.1 - 9: +1
9.1 - 12: 0
12.1 - 15: -1
15.1 - 18: -2
18.1 - 21: -3
21.1 - 27: -4

This system should keep the spirit of the skill cap alive for the most part (you can still train up to 12.0 at a roughly better than +1 aptitude, higher than ~15.0 will be worse than Human, higher than ~20.0 and you could have just picked Mummy), while alleviating the feeling of having 'nothing to train' that starts occuring around the first rune.

I'll post another update when I actually push this (although I'm unsure when CBRO will update the branch after the push).

Edit: Pushed these changes, it should update on CBRO eventually.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 60

Joined: Tuesday, 24th January 2017, 21:44

Post Wednesday, 1st February 2017, 21:41

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Anyone have play advice for my old-style Cyno? Probably putting acid scales on and tackling Slime next.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... pingle.txt

Quibble with the new system:

Training from 0 to 3 is already a freebie, a +3 apt doesn't mean much there. The now-lowered 9sk to 15sk change will have greater impact. Could maybe push the apt slowdowns a bit later, like -1 apt every 4sk, or apts could start 1 higher, or they could be doubled to be more dramatic (start at +4, go down by 2 apt every 5sk or something).

I think I'd like a dramatic option, like mine or different, for creating very impactful tiered sections. Because right now your cyno skills that are coming in with the next build, are mostly just intensifying the existing skill system. That feeling of "hitting" the skill cap and deciding which skills to diversify into next is gone, but with very dramatic skill gradations might be back. "Getting to 10 was super easy, could hit 15sk if I wanted, but may be time to diversify now" sorta thing.
Yiufcrawl, a dcss fork with extra species
Pu, LO, HE, SE, "MD", Im, ST, BK, viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23209

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Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 689

Joined: Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 13:10

Post Wednesday, 1st February 2017, 22:15

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Cynos are humanoids with the head of a dog

distressingly furry

I like the skill cap idea though.
Dearest Steve
thanks for the gym equipment
the plane crashed

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 268

Joined: Sunday, 23rd March 2014, 23:51

Post Wednesday, 1st February 2017, 23:53

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

shping wrote:Anyone have play advice for my old-style Cyno? Probably putting acid scales on and tackling Slime next.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... pingle.txt

Quibble with the new system:

Training from 0 to 3 is already a freebie, a +3 apt doesn't mean much there. The now-lowered 9sk to 15sk change will have greater impact. Could maybe push the apt slowdowns a bit later, like -1 apt every 4sk, or apts could start 1 higher, or they could be doubled to be more dramatic (start at +4, go down by 2 apt every 5sk or something).

I think I'd like a dramatic option, like mine or different, for creating very impactful tiered sections. Because right now your cyno skills that are coming in with the next build, are mostly just intensifying the existing skill system. That feeling of "hitting" the skill cap and deciding which skills to diversify into next is gone, but with very dramatic skill gradations might be back. "Getting to 10 was super easy, could hit 15sk if I wanted, but may be time to diversify now" sorta thing.


I originally put it at +3/-1 every 3 levels just to try to match the growth somewhat closely to the +2/14 skill cap without being overly dramatic in steps, but I think you are right that making the steps more dramatic and farther apart may be better at bringing back the skill cap feel. I'll give it a few more playtests with the current system, but I'll probably change it to your +4/-2 every 5 levels suggestion. However, with such a dramatic step, I definitely need to make sure to add a notification message to indicate the aptitude has changed at each of the step points (I didn't feel the need to do this as much with the slower, more frequent steps although I probably should have).

Edit: Did some charts comparing skill costs to match up the different systems, as well as some playtesting. The smaller steps never really felt like a wall until I started hitting skill level 21 or so, which is way too late to provide pressure to spread around. However, I also noticed that starting at +4 for a -2 aptitude per 5 levels also gave enough of a surplus of experience to throw off the balance (it was still better than Human until skill level 17-18, which is way too high). I'm currently debating between starting at +3 or +2, decreasing by -2 per 5 levels for both, but I'll need to compare the costs first before I decide on it.

As a side note, the commit I made implementing the embedded skill costs originally was very lazy and didn't actually embed the skill costs properly, making a wall of experience that had to be made up after each step! Whoops! I'll make sure they are properly embedded once I've changed the steps around on the next commit.

Edit 2: Erring on the side of more power and giving them the +3 starting point. I can always reduce it down to +2 later if it is too easy. The new chart looks like:
  Code:
0.0-5.0: +3
5.1-10.0: +1
10.1-15.0: -1
15.1-20.0: -3
21.1-27: -5

Halls Hopper

Posts: 60

Joined: Tuesday, 24th January 2017, 21:44

Post Thursday, 2nd February 2017, 12:00

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I am the second-greatest Cyno in all the land!

Image

Also, this is my first online win overall.
Yiufcrawl, a dcss fork with extra species
Pu, LO, HE, SE, "MD", Im, ST, BK, viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23209

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Floodkiller

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Post Sunday, 5th February 2017, 02:14

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Cyno branch is now updated on CBRO! Since the species has changed a decent bit, here's a new species summary:

Cynos
Cynos are humonids with the heads of dogs. They are quick to train the basics of any skill, but struggle to master any.

Attributes:
7 Str/8 Int/9 Dex
+0% HP/+0 MP/-2 XP/+3 MR per level
+1 Str/Int/Dex every 5 levels

Aptitudes:
"+0" flat aptitude (see below for details)

Mutations:
You have a short attention span - You are very excited and quick to learn new skills, but grow disinterested in them the longer you train them. Your aptitude for any skill is dependent on how many skill points you currently have in that skill, based on the table below:
  Code:
Skill Level   Aptitude
0.0-5.0       +3
5.1-10.0      +1
10.1-15.0     -1
15.1-20.0     -3
20.1-27       -5

This new system replaces the old hard skill cap of 14. This should resolve the situation where you ran out of thing you cared about training around your first/second rune, while still keeping the feel of the skill cap in the end.

Strong Nose - Three level species mutation. You can sniff out items and monsters in a 3/5/7 tile radius. Given at XL 1/XL 11/XL 22.

Future updates may have me adjust the starting apittude/aptitude difference/distance between steps for the XP chart to adjust for difficulty, as well as possibly modifying the aptitudes from flat 0 to a slight bump up/down wherever I feel a dog joke is appropriate and it won't heavily impact skilling. Please provide feedback if you do decide to play it!

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Post Monday, 20th February 2017, 04:24

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Coming soon to an experimental branch on CBRO near you:

-Strong Nose only detects monsters up to three tiles at all mutation levels. The 5/7 tile radius was stepping on Formicids and Ashenzari too much, so this change should keep the pseudo SInv flavor without getting crazy. The detect item radius still grows at the same rates, but the mutation growth has changed from 11/22 to 12/24 (as the numbers were originally created for the -4 XP attribute version of the species).

-Adjusted the Cyno soft skill cap from starting at +3 apt/-2 apt every 5 levels, to starting at +4 apt/-4 apt every 6 levels. This is mainly a nerf, as the old system had you still earning skill levels at a rate better than a mummy until roughly skill level 21, which pretty much defeats the point of the soft skill cap for all but the highest level items. This new system should bring that down a significant degree without severely altering the earlier skill levels, as well as provide a better encouragement to jump to other skills with the larger decrease in aptitude per step. This also has the side effect of speeding up the earlier skill levels, which should be fine.

Unless it still turns out to be ridiculously easy to train mid-to-higher skill levels (or something else comes up in feedback/testing), I feel I'm mostly done developing the core of the race, so the last thing I feel is left is a bit more flavor. I'm considering adding Shoutitis 1 (bark at mean things), but I feel like I might need to add something positive to compensate, as Cyno already has the -2 XP and skill cap thing going on. If anyone wants to leave feedback on whether or not this is a good idea (despite my decent amount of wins, I still give little to no regard for noise and don't notice the effects of any noise below Qazlal/Gong levels), or any other ideas for small flavor things to add (positive or negative), feel free to chip in! Likewise, I'm always looking for more player feedback on the species if you do decide to play it!

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Post Monday, 20th February 2017, 13:53

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I'd like Shoutitist 1 if only for flavor sake. Perhaps give them the first step up of fur? (AC+1)? That might be a little strong, but strong isn't bad.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out

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Post Monday, 20th February 2017, 14:08

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

New skilling makes dogs quite fun and semi-unique in a non invasive way.

Shoutitis would screw with that oh so nice +4 early stealth mod so i'm not entirely sold on this. Quazlal level noise while berserking would be interesting though.

Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 20th February 2017, 18:59

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I wouldn't mind shoutitis - if cynos shout at a reduced volume. (Your doglike yips and barks are difficult to distinguish from the natural hounds of the dungeon or something.)
Yiufcrawl, a dcss fork with extra species
Pu, LO, HE, SE, "MD", Im, ST, BK, viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23209

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 21st February 2017, 06:12

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Cynos are canines so they should flat out have SInv.

Shoutitis, although hilarious and incredibly appropriate, sounds like something for a different race. It could be an amusing way to spice up encounters though. You're guaranteed to have good stealth unless you have heavy body armour so you can consider that an advantage that you could randomly lose, sort of like magic misfire chance.

Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 21st February 2017, 17:44

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I don't like Shoutitis as that seems to just be punishing stealth on the everyman sort of stealth builds that the race encourages.

I do think it'd be appropriate to change the shout messages to bark or howl though, similar to how barachians now croak.

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Post Tuesday, 21st February 2017, 18:45

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Shoutitis could be interesting as a species innate, but I don't think I'd want to play with it unless there was a linked upside, something like a small amount of damage when you bark, a-la Singing Sword, or a chance at weakness or -wiz effects on monsters. Fear would be more appropriate but also a huge pain in the ass to chase stuff around (as much as a dog would love that...squirrel!). Having it happen at high tension, with increased chance of good side-effects would fit well with the theme lately of encouraging fights against more than 1 opponent.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 03:11

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Cynos are canines so they should flat out have SInv.

I based the revised Strong Nose detect monsters off of the 'sense invisible' that jackals/hounds/wolves/wargs used to have, which is why they don't have straight up SInv; make up the excuse that it is weaker since they are a hybrid instead of a purebreed canine. However, if the 3-tile detect monsters still steps over Fo/Ash, or is too complicated, I'll probably cut the detect monsters portion entirely and just replace it with SInv.

Also, thanks for the feedback with Shoutitis, to everyone who provided it! I was not aware it was considered as bad as people think it is, probably because I have a problem with actually thinking about noise while playing.

minstrel wrote:Fear would be more appropriate but also a huge pain in the ass to chase stuff around (as much as a dog would love that...squirrel!). Having it happen at high tension, with increased chance of good side-effects would fit well with the theme lately of encouraging fights against more than 1 opponent.


This would be interesting in the revision of starting with a species ability to Cause Fear at the cost of making a loud noise and being tied to Breath/Exhaust, but I'm not sure how overpowered that would be (in comparison to how long it would take to find and power up the Cause Fear spell vs starting with it innately). Another proposal for flavor I found was to have a chance for Cynos to become mesmerized by a monster whenever one enters LoS, but I definitely wouldn't want to add that without an upside (which I would likely combine with the Cause Fear idea and have it also break Mesm). I am also wary of adding too many gimmicks to the species that have an impact on the game, considering the skill system is already supposed to be the main focus.

Doesnt wrote:I don't like Shoutitis as that seems to just be punishing stealth on the everyman sort of stealth builds that the race encourages.

I do think it'd be appropriate to change the shout messages to bark or howl though, similar to how barachians now croak.

I would feel guilty about adding yet another special case to the shout code, but I'm tempted to do so anyway if they do make it into Trunk.

As a separate issue, I would like to ask everyone (regardless if they have played the species or not) for feedback on the following:
Current information displayed to the player is their current aptitude per skill, the amount of skill points it costs per level (through the existing approximate skill cost system in the skill menu), and a message that appears whenever the aptitude increases/decreases as it hits one of the level breakpoints.
Here's how the skill screen currently looks:
Image

Here's the message that appears when you hit one of the skill level breakpoints:
Image

And, in case you're an Ashenzari worshipping Cyno, here's what happens when you Transfer Knowledge and drop below one of the skill level breakpoints:
Image

However, it currently does not present which levels are the breakpoints (6/12/18, or every 6 levels starting from zero except for skill level 24), nor does it inform the player how much the aptitude drops at each breakpoint (start at +4, -4 per breakpoint). The only current explanation is the species selection information of "They are quick to train the basics of any skill, but struggle to master any", the custom mutation "You have a short attention span.", and the manual explanation of "This comes at the cost of a poor attention span, making it more difficult to train a skill the higher it gets." Thus, the player has no in-game accessible knowledge of when these breakpoints specifically will occur, nor how much the aptitude will be affected, until it happens. On one hand, there aren't defined numbers for when species mutations occur for many other species (other than Draconians in the species selection), such as how the Demonspawn mutation system functions. On the other hand, most species mutations are beneficial, and the negative ones are usually visible and take effect from XL 1, so having one that creates negative effects that aren't immediately observable may require more information displayed in some fashion to the user. Thus, I'm wondering if A) this is an issue and B) if it is, how to provide this specific information without breaking immersion.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 03:51

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

You could perhaps provide the information as the mutation description in the A screen:
  Code:
Your skill aptitudes start at +x and reduce by y every z skill levels.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 12:38

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

chequers wrote:You could perhaps provide the information as the mutation description in the A screen:
  Code:
Your skill aptitudes start at +x and reduce by y every z skill levels.

I wouldn't mind it, but the way mutations are currently worded, they do not display a number unless it refers to an attribute (Str/Dex/Int/HP/MP) or a defensive stat (AC/EV/SH), with the exception of encumbrance rating, experience level, and accuracy (for eyeballs, and why???). Additionally, when they do reference numbers, it is usually in parenthesis off to the side. Stuff like Fast or Slow Movement requires you to reference the movement speed yourself by acting, or stuff like Mutation Resistance requires you to reference out of game resources to figure out how effective it is at each level.

If the exact numbers need to be given to the player, are skills important enough to distinguish as the entire mutation description, breaking immersion/flavor to do so? Alternatively, are they able to be condensed into parenthesis after the "short attention span" species mutation in a way that makes sense ('+4 apt/-4 apt per 6 levels' is simultaneously wordy and obscure). Or, is the system okay to be inferred based off of what is displayed in those screenshots?

As an off-shoot (which should probably be split off into a new thread for further discussion), if more information is important to display, and is displayed in the mutation information screen, what other mutations need to have their description altered to provide more information about the mutation in-game versus needing to look up outside materials?

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Post Monday, 6th March 2017, 14:22

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I've decided to leave the skill cap system as is, without breaking flavor to define the exact mechanical details. Skill growth through experience gain is slow enough that unspoiled players won't "waste experience" before learning how the system works with the current information and messages. There may be an edge case in regards to potions of experience, but I think players are more concerned about their resulting skill level over their aptitudes on that screen (and the resulting skill level is accurate).

I've removed the detect monsters portion of Strong Nose and replaced it with SInv (to keep the flavor attachment to other dog enemies). Even at a 3 radius, I felt it was infringing on Fo too much. It may come back in a future revision of the species, who knows. I've also changed Strong Nose to be a single level mutation granted at XL 1 for the full 7 tile detect items radius, as it felt overly complicated for such a weak flavor effect.

Cynos also have their own unique shout verbs, because everyone kept asking to be able to bark at things.

Finally, I cleaned up and rebased the branch for the dev team to consider for addition to Trunk. There were no other serious criticisms to address from #crawl-dev (from the members present at the time) about their current state, and I am unable to think of any other major changes that I would like to make to the species. Balancing tweaks at this point would require more data to make an informed change. As a side effect of this, the CBRO experimental branch will not contain these updates, and may break at some point if rebuilt. If Cyno are rejected but still fixable, I'll look into asking about getting it relinked for further in-development testing.

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Post Monday, 27th March 2017, 15:14

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I've mainly been working through ##crawl-dev and GitHub comments on the pull request the last month or so, but here's some updates:
-I changed the skill system scaling after receiving feedback on it being too lenient at higher levels. It now starts at +4 and lowers by 2 every skill level after 7 until it reaches -6:
  Code:
0.0-7.0: +4
7.1-8.0: +2
8.1-9.0: +0
9.1-10.0: -2
10.1-11.0: -4
11.1-27.0: -6

The early levels are still similar in total exp cost to the previous system, but the 'soft cap' has been lowered somewhat to bring it closer to 12 instead of 15. The drop rate is also a bit more gradual by being -2 per drop instead of -4, which may make it look less intimidating.

-Changed the XP modifier from -2 to 0, reduced MR gain from +3 per level to +2 per level. The experience modifier being low, after more playtesting, was only causing the early game consumable use to be dependent on finding OOD monsters that could be easily abused by the early high skill levels: either you found some and it was still a stockpile by lategame, or you didn't find any and fell behind quickly. Instead, I reduced the MR gain as an alternative to encouraging consumable use by making Hex using monsters much more dangerous, as well as giving Cyno another niche that other species don't currently explore. Reduced MR also fits the 'short attention span' flavor of the skill system for a bit of icing on the cake.

-There's a bikeshedding discussion on renaming Cyno to something else (current frontrunner is Gnoll on other sources), but that can be discussed here.
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Post Friday, 7th April 2017, 02:38

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species


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Post Friday, 7th April 2017, 07:44

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

I'll spare you the sarcasm and just say that calling de facto gnolls "bultungins", as well as the general direction of choosing as obscure names for new things as possible is pretty silly. I mean player gnolls would even fit within the game as monster gnolls are a threat very early on and a joke later.

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Post Friday, 7th April 2017, 08:47

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

We could call them buttplugins.
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Post Friday, 7th April 2017, 15:35

Re: New Experimental: Cyno Species

Names are always weird until you get accustomed to them, and Crawl has intentionally been trying to draw from non-Western sources in recent years.

I don't really have a problem with them being named Gnolls, but I think here is an opportunity to draw from a fresh source that hasn't been endlessly iterated on in other media. Hyena people are neat!
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