Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

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Post Tuesday, 3rd January 2017, 22:17

Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

TL;DR: Much simpler incarnation of the council god. If you want to go straight to what will be the new mechanics, click on the last spoiler tag.

EDIT: The rework is done and shoult hit CBRO soon!

First of all, apologies for opening a new post for what I'm sure some people would think belongs to the other Ieoh Jian Council thread. However, I hope I make a good case for this topic requiring a different discussion, because it involves a set of changes so radical that the god would be quite unrecognizable, so the thread would be immediately out of context.

We've been testing IJC in one form or another for around three months now. I've tested, tweaked and hopefully improved the formula, and in exchange had a lot of fun spectating testers. The feedback has been quite positive, with most players reporting the god as being quite fun. People have been enthusiastic about the idea, and some devs such as dpeg have expressed their intention for the god to be in trunk soon. If nothing else, I can claim that the god is fun to play!

Fun is not everything I'm looking for though, and everything hasn't been as great as I've wanted. There are some inelegant mechanics, substantial inventory fiddliness, and balance issues. The more advanced players and devs in particular have been focusing their criticism on the god's complexity. While it took me a while to agree (partially because of, I must admit, a bit of attachment to the design), I don't mind accepting my mistakes and I now wholeheartedly agree. For the past two weeks I've been cutting superficial mechanics, like stealing, tiered wrath, piety prompts on divine weapons... But it just isn't enough. The god needs a more substantial overhaul.

I think I've found a possible new incarnation of the Ieoh Jian Council that is radically simpler than the former while retaining the elements that people have liked the most. I'm quite sure this is the direction I want to take the god in, but I want to run it through you guys first, specially those who have taken the god to the endgame.

Major change #1: There are no summoned weapons.
Spoiler: show
Wait what? Isn't that the whole point of the god?

A week ago I'd have said yes. My initial god proposal, years ago, revolved entirely around collecting and summoning weapons. However, developing this god has been an organic process and people have expressed time and again that the fun part of IJC is the dynamic combat, so the focus is going to be squarely on that.

Under the new model, you won't spawn weapons when hitting enemies at all, and the weapon swapping mechanic is gone. Divine weapons remain but tied to a completely different mechanic. There are multiple reasons for this change; when inspected closely, spawned weapons don't add enough to the god to warrant their multiple issues. Balance, in that you're given too much of an advantage in terms of positioning and body blocking. Fiddliness, in that your inventory management is complicated by the constant flux of weapons, and finally the unpleasant situations that arise from having a too strong or too weak main weapon.

Naturally, this change means Recall Weapon is gone, but Project Weapon remains essentially unmodified (and you'll still be unable to wield a different weapon when yours is projected). I'm renaming it to Steel Dragonfly because nostalgia + theme.


Major change #2: Pressure Points and Afterimage are no more.
Spoiler: show
These two passives don't exist anymore, and their mechanics are instead merged with the martial attacks (see the next point).


Major change #3: Martial attacks rework.
Spoiler: show
First off, the martial cross-training from 0 piety remains, so you'll be able to use any weapon you pick as usual. Martial attacks remain, although their properties and how you acquire them changes significantly. To begin with, they're separate passives obtained at different levels (lunge at *, whirlwind at **, wall jump -formerly pole vault- at ***). They apply on all weapon types, as well as unarmed. These are their new descriptions:

  • Lunge (*): Deal a powerful lunging strike when moving towards an enemy. Lunging attacks deal extra damage against distracted or slowed enemies.
  • Whirlwind (**): Attack all adjacent monsters by moving around them. Whirlwind can slow down enemies by hitting pressure points in quick succession.
  • Wall jump (***): Jump against a solid obstacle by moving towards it, damaging all enemies near your landing spot. The maneuvre can cause nearby enemies to be briefly distracted.

My reasoning for these changes comes from the realization that it isn't necessary (or desirable) to tie different martial attacks to different weapons. Instead, the martial attacks can be designed to naturally lead into each other regardless of your weapon type. The debuffs applied by the abilities are meant to minimize tedium and kiting. Whirlwind gets a non-stacking debuff to discourage whirlwind spam, while Lunge is optimal only when the enemies are already unable to follow you, discouraging excessive kiting. This new method of obtaining passives is more streamlined and can be explained better in the UI, rather than forcing you to look at weapon descriptions. Finally, the kit now works with unarmed, which is something that people expected from a god themed around martial arts.


Major change #4: Divine weapon rework.
Spoiler: show
If there's anything I can take from spectating testers, is that divine weapons are a complete hit. People love the infrequent combat boost in the form of a mobility based weapon, and since the god is in dire need of a late game piety sink, I decided to change the divine weapon mechanic while keeping the weapons themselves. Divine weapons are now summoned via an active ability gained at *****:
Heavenly Blade(active, 6 MP, 12 piety) Unequips your current weapon, and summons a random divine weapon from Ieoh Jian's vault to aid you in combat for some time. They can be projected as normal, but unwielding them manually will cause them to be recalled by the Council.


Major change #5: Dragon Palm for unarmed users. Not really necessary.
Spoiler: show
Unarmed combat worshippers can't use Steel Dragonfly (formerly project weapon) so they get a different active ability. Technically it applies to weapon users too, because you can cast it after projecting your own, and it can apply to off hand strikes and kicks.
Dragon Palm (Active, 3 mp, 4 piety): Your dragon tatoo comes to life, granting your limbs the Electrocution or Flaming brand for a period of time. Unarmed attacks apply the effect of that brand for the duration of the buff.


Final god ability list:
Spoiler: show
Piety level (-) "Young Dog"
  • Substantially increases the effects of crosstraining. All weapon types + Unarmed Combat crosstrain at 80% rate.
Piety level (*) "Young Crane"
  • Lunge: Deal a powerful lunging strike when moving towards an enemy. Lunging attacks deal extra damage against distracted and slowed enemies.
Piety level (**) "Young Tiger"
  • Whirlwind: Attack all adjacent monsters by moving around them. Whirlwind can slow down enemies by hitting pressure points in quick succession.
Piety level (***) "Red Sash"
  • Wall jump: Jump against a solid obstacle by moving towards it, damaging all enemies near your landing spot. The maneuvre can cause nearby enemies to be briefly distracted.
Piety level (****) "Golden Sash"
  • Steel Dragonfly: (Active, 4 MP, 6 piety): If you have a weapon equipped, you project it to an enemy or a target tile, dealing damage and animating the weapon at the target location, making it capable of attacking for a brief period of time.
Piety level (*****) "Red Dragon"
  • Heavenly Blade(active, 6 MP, 12 piety) Unequips your current weapon, and summons a random divine weapon from Ieoh Jian's vault to aid you in combat for some time. They can be projected as normal, but unwielding them manually will cause them to be recalled by the Council.
Image
Piety level (******) "Golden Dragon"
  • No new abilities.
Last edited by Steel Neuron on Thursday, 5th January 2017, 17:13, edited 21 times in total.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 00:58

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

I like this better than the original concept. Does project weapon really need to prevent you from using another weapon? It doesn't seem that powerful, compared to other gods' summons.
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 01:20

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

These changes all sound great. I didn't play much Ieoh because of all the weapon swapping, but I'd be excited to try this new version.
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 08:29

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

After our conversation today I am extremely excited to playtest this.

Slime Squisher

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 08:53

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

duane wrote:I like this better than the original concept. Does project weapon really need to prevent you from using another weapon? It doesn't seem that powerful, compared to other gods' summons.


It's not so much a balance issue but a way to prevent a few problems and edge cases. Retracing weapons back to your inventory becomes more complicated if you get multiples floating around. Also, the chance to spawn multiples in a really tight situation would lead to weapon hoarding to satisfy a very specific and rare scenario. Lastly, I like this restriction as a way to get weapon users to work unarmed into their kit as well.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 09:02

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Overall, I think this is a healthy direction to take the concept, but I think tying the slow effect to lunge like this is going to be a problem. In the success case, you lunge at a monster, slowing it, then follow up with whirlwind attacks for extra damage and paralysis. But, in the failure case, you need to position for another lunge in order to start the combo, which I predict will often mean kiting monsters until the +/-10% speed modifiers create an empty space between you and your target.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 09:08

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Nekoatl wrote:Overall, I think this is a healthy direction to take the concept, but I think tying the slow effect to lunge like this is going to be a problem. In the success case, you lunge at a monster, slowing it, then follow up with whirlwind attacks for extra damage and paralysis. But, in the failure case, you need to position for another lunge in order to start the combo, which I predict will often mean kiting monsters until the +/-10% speed modifiers create an empty space between you and your target.


That's something that I've worried about too, and I've spent a lot of time testing and deciding which effect to assign to which attack. The idea is to make wall jump enticing enough for its defensive benefits that you would use it to kite instead of lunge, but that could indeed be a problem. I might end up making both Lunge and Whirlwind to cause slow, but only lunge to deal extra damage against slowed enemies, or some permutation of that.

An alternative:
  • Wall Jump causes slow.
  • Whirlwind gives MR + EV for a bit (and is therefore not optimal to spam, but can get you that little bit of useful movement as you set up for a second wall jump).
  • Lunge deals extra damage in general and exploits slow by paralyzing.

This seems free of kiting issues? the problem with this one would be that you'd absolutely need a place to wall jump in order to start the chain, and sometimes you just can't have it.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 09:45

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Good changes IMO. Personally I was more interested in the weapon collection aspect, but in practice it is indeed the movement while attacking aspect that proved popular.

Some comments:
* Lunge was always problematic because of kiting. It's just something you'll have to live with, I think. Other than possibly coming up with a new move to replace it.
* That said, I'd prefer it if all martial attacks give the chance to slow, then slowed enemies get a chance for paralysis (which was the original concept). Maybe give higher chances for inflicting debuff (slow or paralysis) if consecutive moves are not the same (i.e. you're not as likely to debuff by spamming only lunge or only whirlwind). Btw this addresses the issue Nekoatl raised.
* IMO EV/MR bonus is out of place and not that thematic. In keeping with the debuff nature of the god, apply blindness or antimagic or something of that sort instead.
* Since weapon swapping on the fly isn't a thing anymore, I'd change Project Weapon to simply be a stronger form of Spectral weapon, i.e. the weapon won't fly out of your hand anymore. This should simplify inventory and lost weapon issues too.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 09:57

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

DracheReborn wrote:Good changes IMO. Personally I was more interested in the weapon collection aspect, but in practice it is indeed the movement while attacking aspect that proved popular.

Some comments:
* Lunge was always problematic because of kiting. It's just something you'll have to live with, I think. Other than possibly coming up with a new move to replace it.
* That said, I'd prefer it if all martial attacks give the chance to slow, then slowed enemies get a chance for paralysis (which was the original concept). Maybe give higher chances for inflicting debuff (slow or paralysis) if consecutive moves are not the same (i.e. you're not as likely to debuff by spamming only lunge or only whirlwind). Btw this addresses the issue Nekoatl raised.
* IMO EV/MR bonus is out of place and not that thematic. In keeping with the debuff nature of the god, apply blindness or antimagic or something of that sort instead.
* Since weapon swapping on the fly isn't a thing anymore, I'd change Project Weapon to simply be a stronger form of Spectral weapon, i.e. the weapon won't fly out of your hand anymore. This should simplify inventory and lost weapon issues too.


More brainstorming based on your points:

Wall jump can cause a brief distraction (obvious thematic reasons).
Whirlwind can cause slow.
Lunge deals extra damage in general, and more against distracted/slowed enemies.

This, I think, takes care of the two main issues: whirlwind spamming and lunge kiting. Lunge is fine because both conditions that make it desirable also make kiting unnecessary, while whirlwind is not optimal to spam because there is no point in slowing an enemy further, while the other two have repeatable beneficial effects.

Yes, I really like this one. I think distraction is a much more thematic mechanic to tie to wall jump than MR+EV. Will update the main post with it.

I disagree about spectral weapon though, I enjoy the thematic idea of throwing your own weapon, it's very crouching tiger/hidden dragon.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 10:31

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Pretty sad that you have to cut out those floating weapons since it's one of the major reasons why that 80% crosstraining is attractive.

So I guess the meta now would be to main UC while just having a sidearm melee weapon to dump your enchant weapons with? Idk seems very awkward to me that a 12 MP ability, even though the divine weapons are very good, is the only reliable source of weapons.
Last edited by ONIchinchin on Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 10:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 10:32

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Steel Neuron wrote:I disagree about spectral weapon though, I enjoy the thematic idea of throwing your own weapon, it's very crouching tiger/hidden dragon.


Just to clarify, in case I wasn't clear. I'm proposing Project weapon to not unequip the weapon in your hand. The "spirit", if you will, still flies towards the target, inflicting direct damage and creating a summoned ally.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 10:37

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

DracheReborn wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:I disagree about spectral weapon though, I enjoy the thematic idea of throwing your own weapon, it's very crouching tiger/hidden dragon.


Just to clarify, in case I wasn't clear. I'm proposing Project weapon to not unequip the weapon in your hand. The "spirit", if you will, still flies towards the target, inflicting direct damage and creating a summoned ally.


I know, I mean I don't necessarily like the idea of having a "clone" of your weapon around, I prefer the player losing access to it while the effect is active. I could keep it in the inventory however and just force an unwield for the duration of the effect, if that simplifies things.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 10:40

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

ONIchinchin wrote:Pretty sad that you have to cut out those floating weapons since it's one of the major reasons why that 80% crosstraining is attractive.

So I guess the meta now would be to main UC while just having a sidearm melee weapon to dump your enchant weapons with? Idk seems very awkward to me that a 12 MP ability, even though the divine weapons are very good, is the only reliable source of weapons.


I wouldn't say the meta is necessarily UC, not more than when worshipping any other god at least. Having access to all weapon types means you'll probably end up converging to whichever unrand you find is best. Also, weapons have some secondary synergies with the kit (you can stab or cleave while lunging, exploit polearm reach + wall jump, etc). Also, weapon users get a stronger panic button with weapon projection that unarmed users don't have access to. Obviously this will all depend on aptitudes, so as a merfolk you'll probably be maining polearms with the option to use something else if it's very good.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 19:43

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Steel Neuron wrote:
DracheReborn wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:I disagree about spectral weapon though, I enjoy the thematic idea of throwing your own weapon, it's very crouching tiger/hidden dragon.


Just to clarify, in case I wasn't clear. I'm proposing Project weapon to not unequip the weapon in your hand. The "spirit", if you will, still flies towards the target, inflicting direct damage and creating a summoned ally.


I know, I mean I don't necessarily like the idea of having a "clone" of your weapon around, I prefer the player losing access to it while the effect is active. I could keep it in the inventory however and just force an unwield for the duration of the effect, if that simplifies things.

You could have wielding the weapon after projecting it simply dispel the summoned weapon. (Flavored as you bring your weapon back to your hand)
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 20:29

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Sounds great!

Some things not made explicit:
- What is the range on Lunge?
- What is the specific movement pattern for Wall Jump?
- Can you project a weapon and then wield a different weapon while the former remains animated?
- Can you spam project weapon on a succession of weapons, or only have one animated at a time?
- What is interaction with ranged weapons? eg does Whirlwind smack every adjacent with your bow (like the DC hero Green Arrow does in melee)? Or is the damage of these abilities independent of what you're wielding?
- If I Whirlwind with a foo of poison can everyone get poisoned?

Feedback:

Divine Blade seems redundant on paper. If you're proficient in all weapon types, then your best weapon is the best weapon of *any* type that the dungeon has generated, rather than the best weapon of just the type you focused on training up in the midgame. That's usually going to be pretty darn good. Is a DB going to be that much better that it's worth the action/MP cost? If so, I guess we'll only be using this best-weapon-in-the-game in popcorn fights?

If LJC does not cater to a ranged weapon style, then make this more explicit by having the cross-training boost apply just to melee weapons and unarmed. Ranged is still there as a divinely-unsupported option like it is under most gods.
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 20:33

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

mattlistener wrote:Sounds great!

Some things not made explicit:
- What is the range on Lunge?
- What is the specific movement pattern for Wall Jump?
- Can you project a weapon and then wield a different weapon while the former remains animated?
- Can you spam project weapon on a succession of weapons, or only have one animated at a time?
- What is interaction with ranged weapons? eg does Whirlwind smack every adjacent with your bow (like the DC hero Green Arrow does in melee)? Or is the damage of these abilities independent of what you're wielding?
- If I Whirlwind with a foo of poison can everyone get poisoned?

Feedback:

Divine Blade seems redundant on paper. If you're proficient in all weapon types, then your best weapon is the best weapon of *any* type that the dungeon has generated, rather than the best weapon of just the type you focused on training up in the midgame. That's usually going to be pretty darn good. Is a DB going to be that much better that it's worth the action/MP cost? If so, I guess we'll only be using this best-weapon-in-the-game in popcorn fights?

If LJC does not cater to a ranged weapon style, then make this more explicit by having the cross-training boost apply just to melee weapons and unarmed. Ranged is still there as a divinely-unsupported option like it is under most gods.


Sorry, the post isn't as informative as it should because it assumes knowledge of the previous implementation of the god :). You can answer those questions by playing on CBRO! http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#lobby I'll reply in more detail when I get back home.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 20:44

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Steel Neuron wrote:Lunge is fine because both conditions that make it desirable also make kiting unnecessary


Slowing doesn't make kiting unnecessary, it makes it stronger. It does make it less tedious, but this still encourages repeatedly backing away from enemies to create space, then lunging, which doesn't sound like a particularly fun pattern.

I feel like you might be overcomplicating things with all the bonus effects on the movement abilities. Not that having extra effects isn't cool, but I feel like the main incentive to use them should still be the ability to reposition and deal damage at the same time, not to chain them together for status effects. Encouraging you to whirwind until you slow the enemy, then repeatedly back away and lunge them seems like it mostly just makes the god's play pattern way more complicated.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 20:48

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Quazifuji wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:Lunge is fine because both conditions that make it desirable also make kiting unnecessary


Slowing doesn't make kiting unnecessary, it makes it stronger. It does make it less tedious, but this still encourages repeatedly backing away from enemies to create space, then lunging, which doesn't sound like a particularly fun pattern.


I don't have a problem with that, honestly. You could say the same about reach, and I enjoy poking worms to death in the early game precisely because it breaks the common combat pattern a bit. The idea is not for every fight to be driven by this combo, but for the player to respond to opportunities that arise, in a way that mimics the good part of reacting to spawned weapons.

Quazifuji wrote:I feel like you might be overcomplicating things with all the bonus effects on the movement abilities. Not that having extra effects isn't cool, but I feel like the main incentive to use them should still be the ability to reposition and deal damage at the same time, not to chain them together for status effects. Encouraging you to whirwind until you slow the enemy, then repeatedly back away and lunge them seems like it mostly just makes the god's play pattern way more complicated.


Unfortunately, something that I've witnessed first hand is that, without incentive, testers will resort to tabbing. It's reasonable because it's the simplest option, some degree of added power on the martial attacks is necessary to make them more desirable than simply retreating into a killhole. Figuring out what exactly these effects must be is tricky because I don't want any of the three to be overcentralizing, but I'm confident about the distract -> slow -> punish triangle.

In the build I'm writing at the moment, chance to distract is increased against slowed enemies, and chance to slow against distracted enemies, so if you get an enemy slowed, you still have a choice on what to do. Distracting first may be optimal because lunge will deal massive damage if both debuffs are on. Not that great an idea. Chances will be independent of one another, but lunge benefits from punishing both, so you're incentivized to not go for the lunge directly after the first debuff.
Last edited by Steel Neuron on Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 21:15

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

Nice work editing down your proposal here. This is exactly the direction I was hoping you would take this god after playing through it myself.

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Post Thursday, 5th January 2017, 08:57

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

I'm also retracting the dragon palm idea. I've been toying with it but it's not necessary. Unarmed users aren't completely out of luck because they can still project the divine weapons.

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Post Thursday, 5th January 2017, 09:34

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council, a radical change.

mattlistener wrote:Sounds great!

Some things not made explicit:

So... To answer your questions more in detail. Most of these are the same on the current CBRO implementation of the god, but it's good to clarify them here too.

mattlistener wrote:- What is the range on Lunge?

1 (adjacent). The way lunge works is as follows: You need to walk to the tile directly in front of a monster, aiming towards it.

mattlistener wrote:- What is the specific movement pattern for Wall Jump?

Walking into an obstacle moves you two tiles in the exact opposite direction, provided the landing spot is free, and that the tile in between isn't an impassable obstacle (you can jump over monsters).
mattlistener wrote:- Can you project a weapon and then wield a different weapon while the former remains animated?

You can't. I explicitly want to disable this to discourage weapon hoarding and to encourage some unarmed play.
mattlistener wrote:- Can you spam project weapon on a succession of weapons, or only have one animated at a time?

You can't, as a consequence of the previous point.
mattlistener wrote:- What is interaction with ranged weapons? eg does Whirlwind smack every adjacent with your bow (like the DC hero Green Arrow does in melee)? Or is the damage of these abilities independent of what you're wielding?

I'm still undecided on this. I might make the abilities work regardless of what you're wielding, and count as unarmed with a penalty.

mattlistener wrote:- If I Whirlwind with a foo of poison can everyone get poisoned?

Yep, it's not too dissimilar to cleave in that sense (note that whirlwind can't actually trigger cleave).

mattlistener wrote:Divine Blade seems redundant on paper. If you're proficient in all weapon types, then your best weapon is the best weapon of *any* type that the dungeon has generated, rather than the best weapon of just the type you focused on training up in the midgame. That's usually going to be pretty darn good. Is a DB going to be that much better that it's worth the action/MP cost? If so, I guess we'll only be using this best-weapon-in-the-game in popcorn fights?


The current incarnation of Divine Blades is quite brutal, and they are specially designed to work with the martial attacks. Getting one will be a noticeable boost regardless of your main equipment. If they need to be buffed to guarantee this holds true, I'll reduce their duration or increase their piety cost accordingly.

mattlistener wrote:If LJC does not cater to a ranged weapon style, then make this more explicit by having the cross-training boost apply just to melee weapons and unarmed. Ranged is still there as a divinely-unsupported option like it is under most gods.


I might not have made that clear, but the x-train boost already only applies to melee skills. You're on your own for ranged weapons :)
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Post Friday, 6th January 2017, 21:25

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-554-gbf3359a (webtiles) character file.

2089802 removeelyvilon the Middleweight Champion (level 27, 266/266 HPs)
             Began as a Yellow Draconian Transmuter on Jan 5, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Ieoh Jian.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Jan 6, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 05:19:02 (93246 turns).

removeelyvilon the Middleweight Champion (DrTm)    Turns: 93246, Time: 05:19:03

Health: 266/266    AC: 20    Str: 19    XL:     27
Magic:  41/41      EV: 31    Int: 31    God:    Ieoh Jian [******]
Gold:   3448       SH:  0    Dex: 24    Spells: 0/54 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis .      - Unarmed
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    (armour unavailable)
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    B - +1 hat of Ujazeuv {rElec Str-2 Int+3}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    z - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    S - +0 pair of gloves "Viokuesk" {rPois rF++}
MR     +++++                    U - +1 pair of boots of Honesty {Dex+4}
Stlth  ++........               C - amulet "Eqeikor" {Regen+ Str+4 Int+4}
                                y - ring of protection from magic
                                x - ring of Qeinoso {MR+ Int+6 Dex+4}

@: no status effects
A: spit acid, acid resistance, unfitting armour, acidic bite, cold-blooded, AC
+13
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, abyssal
a: Breathe Acid, Steel Dragonfly, Heavenly Blade, Renounce Religion


You escaped.
You worshipped Ieoh Jian.
Ieoh Jian was exalted by your worship.
You were completely stuffed.

You visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and saw 59 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Desolation.

You collected 7402 gold pieces.
You spent 3954 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 z - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 B - the +1 hat of Ujazeuv (worn) {rElec Str-2 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 S - the +0 pair of gloves "Viokuesk" (worn) {rPois rF++}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)   
   
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
 U - the +1 pair of boots of Honesty (worn) {Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
Jewellery
 m - the ring of the Dozen Gods {rN+ Int+3 Stlth+}
   (You took it off an ancient champion on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 v - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 x - the ring of Qeinoso (left hand) {MR+ Int+6 Dex+4}
   (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 y - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 A - the ring "Salomac" {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ MR-}
   (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 C - the amulet "Eqeikor" (around neck) {Regen+ Str+4 Int+4}
   (You took it off a skeletal warrior on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [amulet of regeneration]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 R - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 W - the ring of Searaokk {rPois rF+ rC+ Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
 Z - the ring of Xiesuppi {rPois rC+++ rN+ MR- Str-3}
   (You took it off a necromancer on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your strength (-3).
   It renders you almost immune to cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Wands
 b - a wand of digging (11/24)
 o - a wand of iceblast (8/15)
 L - a wand of paralysis (12/24)
Scrolls
 a - 2 scrolls of identify
 d - 26 scrolls of remove curse
 h - 2 scrolls of fear
 i - 23 scrolls of teleportation
 l - 9 scrolls of recharging
 q - 6 scrolls of blinking
 I - a scroll of holy word
 P - 4 scrolls of immolation
 Q - a scroll of summoning
 T - 6 scrolls of silence
 X - 5 scrolls of fog
Potions
 f - 9 potions of lignification
 j - 6 potions of haste
 k - 9 potions of agility
 n - 21 potions of curing
 r - 2 potions of resistance
 s - 4 potions of invisibility
 t - 5 potions of might
 w - 6 potions of ambrosia
 F - 4 potions of berserk rage {!q}
 G - 5 potions of brilliance
 K - 7 potions of heal wounds
 M - 3 potions of cancellation
 N - 4 potions of magic
 O - a potion of cure mutation
Miscellaneous
 H - a phial of floods
 J - a fan of gales
 Y - 6 boxes of beasts
Comestibles
 c - 7 bread rations
 g - 13 meat rations
 p - 12 slices of pizza
 u - 30 fruits
 D - 20 beef jerkies
 V - 4 royal jellies


   Skills:
 + Level 25.3 Fighting
 - Level 18.6 Dodging
 - Level 9.6 Stealth
 O Level 27 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 14.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 4.2 Conjurations
 - Level 9.1 Hexes
 - Level 9.2 Charms
 - Level 8.6 Summonings
 - Level 2.4 Necromancy
 - Level 15.9 Transmutations
   Level 4.0 Ice Magic
 - Level 10.2 Air Magic
 - Level 9.0 Earth Magic
   Level 2.3 Poison Magic
 + Level 16.6 Invocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
b - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   8%          6    ###....
c - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           ######....   1%          5    None
d - Irradiate             Conj/Tmut      ######....   1%          5    None
e - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          3%          2    None
f - Invisibility          Hex            ######..     10%         6    ###....
g - Blade Hands           Tmut           #######...   1%          5    None
h - Dragon Form           Tmut           #######...   3%          7    #####..
i - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      #######..    1%          6    ###....
j - Summon Lightning Spi  Summ/Air       ######..     1%          4    None
X - Silence               Hex/Air        ######....   1%          5    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:10
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:3        Snake (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (5/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Zot (5/5) Depths:5   
   Dis: Hell:1         Geh: Hell:1         Coc: Hell:1         Tar: Hell:1

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Ieoh Jian
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 (   D:14 (}}:*   Orc:2 =[!(   Elf:2 (   Snake:1 *   Snake:3 *
Vaults:4 *(%(?   Depths:2 }}=   Depths:4 }

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:4
Trove: Vaults:2 (give 3 potions of resistance)

Annotations:
Lair:4 exclusion: oklob plant
Hell Geryon


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can spit globs of acid.
You are resistant to acid.
Your golden yellow scales are hard. (AC +13)
You cannot fit into any form of body armour.
You have acidic saliva.
You are cold-blooded and may be slowed by cold attacks.


Message History

You climb upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down, spattered with blood here.
Unknown command.
Your transformation is almost over.
There is an escape hatch in the ceiling here.
A mysterious force pulls you upwards. The hatch slams shut behind you.
You revert to your normal fleshy form.
The +0 pair of gloves "Viokuesk" {rPois rF++} unmelds from your body.
The +1 pair of boots of Honesty {Dex+4} unmelds from your body.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You start eating one of the 8 bread rations.
You continue eating. x2
You finish eating. That bread ration really hit the spot!
You start eating one of the 14 meat rations.
You continue eating. x2
You finish eating. That meat ration really hit the spot!
You have escaped!

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  ########.###≈##≈##..##.......#.
         #.##≈P≈≈P≈##.......##.#.
         #.#≈P8PP8P≈#.##.....)...
         #.##.P..P≈##>##.##.##)#.
         #......@≈≈...##.##.##.#.
         ####....♣≈##.##.......#.
           #≈.8.♣8♣≈#.#####.####.
           ##≈.≈≈♣≈##.# #.)...###
            ##≈##≈###.# #.....#
             ######.#.###.....#
               #.......##..(..#
               #.......##.....#
               #.##.##.########


There were no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the Royal Jelly (Slime:5)
  4 pandemonium lords
  9 orbs of fire
  5 ancient liches
  Khufu (Crypt:3)
  Mennas (Vaults:2)
  A juggernaut (Depths:4)
  Sojobo (Crypt:1)
  6 Killer Klowns
  Margery (Depths:4)
  A caustic shrike (Depths:4)
  2 curse toes
  Jory (Vaults:2)
  Nikola (Swamp:1)
  15 golden dragons
  The ghost of alphun the Spry, an adept MiMo of Ieoh Jian (Depths:1)
  2 bone dragons
  A Tzitzimitl (D:4)
  5 electric golems
  27 Orb Guardians
  20 tentacled monstrosities
  Asterion (Elf:1)
  4 liches
  A titan (Depths:4)
  4 deep elf blademasters
  2 deep elf master archers (Elf:3)
  6 quicksilver dragons
  Kirke (Snake:2)
  12 acid blobs
  12 death cobs
  6 sphinxes
  3 thorn hunters
  5 ancient champions
  4 tengu reavers
  8 shadow dragons
  12 storm dragons
  An azure jelly (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  Roxanne (Snake:3)
  Donald (Swamp:4)
  2 revenants
  6 azure jellies
  A draconian monk (Zot:3)
  11 nagarajas
  4 iron dragons
  9 draconian knights
  12 fire giants
  3 imperial myrmidons (Desolation)
  9 vault wardens
  12 deep elf sorcerers
  2 ghost moths
  5 frost giants
  Louise (Elf:3)
  3 draconian scorchers
  A cacodemon (D:4)
  A balrug (Depths:3)
  Aizul (Swamp:3)
  A juggernaut zombie (D:15)
  7 ghouls
  5 curse skulls
  A caustic shrike zombie (Depths:2)
  2 draconian shifters
  3 draconian annihilators
  A draconian stormcaller (Zot:5)
  13 ironheart preservers
  A spriggan defender (Depths:4)
  6 deep elf elementalists
  38 very ugly things
  3 reapers
  The ghost of varedna the Grappler, a journeyman TrMo of Ieoh Jian (Lair:4)
  11 stone giants
  11 vampire knights
  13 green draconians
  A black sun (Depths:5)
  A lorocyproca (Depths:5)
  A corrupter (Depths:5)
  A halazid warlock (Desolation)
  9 deep elf demonologists
  Azrael (Snake:1)
  5 deep elf annihilators (Elf:3)
  6 yellow draconians
  11 black draconians
  13 purple draconians
  7 white draconians
  3 dire elephants
  12 spark wasps
  5 eidola
  22 deep elf death magi
  4 red draconians
  3 crystal guardians
  A quicksilver dragon zombie (Crypt:1)
  2 green deaths
  11 ettins
  A blizzard demon (Depths:3)
  3 death oozes (Slime:5)
  10 fire dragons
  10 deep elf high priests
  8 jiangshi
  7 great orbs of eyes
  A monstrous demonspawn (D:4)
  8 ogre magi
  10 yaktaur captains
  4 small abominations
  5 peacekeepers (Desolation)
  11 ice dragons
  10 ragged hierophants (Desolation)
  13 vault guards
  10 rakshasas
  29 naga warriors
  23 hydras
  A spriggan air mage (Depths:5)
  10 servants of whispers (Desolation)
  2 ghost crabs (Swamp:4)
  5 death knights
  A merfolk avatar (Lair:6)
  32 two-headed ogres
  11 anacondas
  A hell beast (D:13)
  27 dancing weapons
  A large abomination (Vaults:3)
  11 centaur warriors
  11 alligators
  6 death yaks
  An orc high priest (Vaults:1)
  16 spriggan berserkers
  20 tengu warriors
  8 deep troll shamans
  3 thrashing horrors (Abyss:3)
  10 deep troll earth magi
  7 vampire magi
  15 naga sharpshooters
  A titan zombie (Crypt:2)
  4 soul eaters
  6 shock serpents
  31 deep elf knights
  2 titan skeletons
  3 hellephant skeletons
  7 spriggans
  3 sun demons (Depths:3)
  34 skeletal warriors
  A storm dragon zombie (Crypt:3)
  2 iron trolls
  A fire crab (Swamp:4)
  7 salamander mystics
  4 shadow wraiths
  15 hell knights
  2 sea snakes (Lair:6)
  5 unseen horrors
  2 unseen horrors (shapeshifter)
  2 gelid demonspawn
  A golden dragon zombie (Depths:2)
  An anaconda zombie (Crypt:2)
  A storm dragon skeleton (Crypt:2)
  2 sixfirhies
  8 glowing orange brains
  8 flayed ghosts
  A shadow demon (D:10)
  A quicksilver dragon simulacrum (Depths:3)
  33 deep trolls
  20 deep elf archers
  A spriggan druid (Swamp:1)
  18 swamp dragons
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:4)
  6 wizards
  3 lindwurms
  17 orc knights
  10 naga ritualists
  Pikel (D:6)
  14 necromancers
  2 wolf spider zombies (D:15)
  12 phantasmal warriors
  18 ironbrand convokers
  2 harpies (shapeshifter)
  7 harpies
  An orb spider (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  93 deep elf magi
  4 manticores
  The ghost of stevs the Spear-Bearer, a novice VSMo of Ieoh Jian (D:7)
  3 orc sorcerers
  8 mana vipers
  2 shining eyes
  2 sphinx skeletons (Depths:2)
  A mana viper (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  9 cyclopes
  83 slime creatures
  59 ugly things
  27 moths of wrath
  26 salamanders
  4 wolf spiders
  4 worldbinders (Abyss:3)
  3 frost giant zombies
  8 elephants (Lair:6)
  10 guardian serpents
  2 stone giant skeletons
  4 fire giant zombies
  10 rust devils
  A water nymph (Abyss:3)
  An eye of devastation (Lair:6)
  Maurice (D:8)
  14 naga magi
  13 vault sentinels
  47 black mambas
  Joseph (D:9)
  An ice statue (Depths:3)
  7 smoke demons
  A dire elephant skeleton (Crypt:3)
  A gargoyle (D:14)
  A fire giant skeleton (Crypt:3)
  2 storm dragon simulacra
  A yaktaur (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  17 spiny frogs
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  An orange demon (D:7)
  3 spriggan zombies
  8 rime drakes
  4 efreet (Depths:3)
  2 anaconda simulacra
  2 kobold demonologists
  2 ice devils
  13 komodo dragons
  A purple draconian skeleton (Crypt:1)
  11 hellwings
  6 guardian mummies
  A tormentor (Zot:5)
  54 yaktaurs
  11 freezing wraiths
  2 yaktaur skeletons
  7 tengu conjurers
  A wind drake (Lair:6)
  A queen bee (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A jumping spider (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  A spriggan skeleton (Depths:2)
  A white draconian skeleton (Crypt:2)
  2 polar bears (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  8 trolls
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  13 hornets
  5 polar bears
  3 meliai (D:14)
  11 tyrant leeches
  16 blink frogs
  A wolf spider simulacrum (Crypt:1)
  A raiju (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A deep troll zombie (D:15)
  A sphinx simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  A dream sheep (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  6 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  An iron dragon simulacrum (Depths:2)
  68 saltlings
  A meliai zombie (D:12)
  A hornet (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  12 hippogriffs
  17 bog bodies
  An ettin zombie (Vaults:4)
  2 black mamba zombies (Crypt:1)
  2 stone giant simulacra (Vaults:4)
  10 shadows
  9 air elementals
  An ice dragon skeleton (Depths:1)
  23 flying skulls
  A redback (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  3 vampires
  8 wraiths
  28 yaks
  4 basilisks
  An orc simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  Sigmund (D:6)
  A ynoxinul (Zot:1)
  5 water elementals
  7 wyverns
  2 humans (D:14)
  An elf zombie (Depths:2)
  A black mamba skeleton (Crypt:1)
  7 fire elementals
  2 hungry ghosts
  4 hogs (Snake:2)
  16 vampire mosquitoes
  2 fire bats (Lair:4)
  2 steam dragons (Swamp:4)
  A chaos spawn (Depths:5)
  5 golden eyes (D:10)
  73 nagas
  2 human simulacra
  6 wargs
  2 insubstantial wisps
  20 water moccasins
  24 swamp worms
  Duvessa (D:6)
  3 acid dragons
  8 hell hounds
  7 porcupines
  6 black bears
  3 ice beasts
  A floating eye (Depths:5)
  A swamp drake (shapeshifter) (D:12)
  20 swamp drakes
  61 orc warriors
  2 spiny frog skeletons
  A slave (D:6)
  A phantom (D:8)
  2 eyes of draining (shapeshifter)
  An ice dragon simulacrum (Depths:1)
  A necrophage (Crypt:2)
  3 wolves (Lair:5)
  36 ogres
  4 sky beasts
  4 boggarts
  7 eyes of draining
  The ghost of varedna the Poker, an amateur MfMo (D:3)
  4 ettin simulacra (Depths:3)
  A manticore zombie (Crypt:3)
  A manticore skeleton (Crypt:2)
  A boggart (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  43 centaurs
  14 crocodiles
  12 big kobolds
  A hippogriff zombie (Crypt:1)
  29 bullfrogs
  Dowan (D:6)
  6 earth elementals
  A spiny frog simulacrum (Crypt:3)
  A wyvern zombie (D:11)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:13)
  3 scorpions
  25 killer bees
  A snapping turtle simulacrum (Crypt:3)
  A yak zombie (Crypt:3)
  2 electric eels
  5 wights
  A howler monkey (D:6)
  9 crimson imps
  6 hounds
  3 bullfrog zombies
  7 centaur zombies
  3 jellies
  28 orc priests
  A basilisk zombie (Crypt:3)
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:12)
  4 centaur skeletons
  A gnoll shaman (D:8)
  An iron imp (D:6)
  A human skeleton (Crypt:2)
  4 iguanas
  11 worker ants
  28 orc wizards
  A naga zombie (Crypt:3)
  2 hound zombies
  10 mummies (Crypt:3)
  A hell rat zombie (Crypt:3)
  A howler monkey zombie (Crypt:2)
  8 gnolls
  9 adders
  13 shadow imps
  2 white imps
  3 oozes
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  4 adder zombies
  4 worms
  3 dart slugs
  5 leopard geckos
  116 orcs
  9 giant cockroaches
  8 goblins
  11 hobgoblins
  3 jackals
  5 quokkas
  A ball python skeleton (D:5)
  2 ball python zombies
  12 bats
  3 frilled lizards
  35 kobolds
  A kobold (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  A quokka zombie (D:6)
  3 rats
  A bush (Elf:3)
  12 crawling corpses
  A fungus (Lair:5)
  2 plants
2975 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An acid blob (Slime:5)
  A death ooze (Slime:5)
  A hydra (Lair:1)
  An adder (D:2)
  A worm (D:2)
  An orc (D:3)
  A giant cockroach (D:2)
  A goblin (D:2)
  2 bats
10 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A tengu warrior (Depths:1)
  A quicksilver dragon simulacrum (Depths:3)
  A lindwurm (Swamp:4)
  2 moths of wrath (Zot:5)
  An elephant (Lair:6)
  A rust devil (D:13)
  A hornet (Swamp:3)
  A saltling (Desolation)
  An air elemental (Elf:3)
  A spriggan (Swamp:3)
  A water elemental (Elf:1)
  A human (Snake:2)
  A steam dragon (Swamp:4)
  A swamp worm (Swamp:1)
  A swamp drake (Swamp:4)
  An ettin simulacrum (Depths:3)
  An ogre (Vaults:3)
  A centaur (D:13)
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:6)
  An adder (D:6)
  A shadow imp (D:6)
  A bush (Lair:6)
  5 fungi (Lair:6)
  37 plants
  4 toadstools (D:1)
  3 withered plants (D:15)
72 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 3057 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | removeelyvilon the Draconian Transmuter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 3/3
   459 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 24/24 MP: 3/5
   466 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes
  1119 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 4/6
  1124 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
  1206 | D:2      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
  1659 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
  2050 | D:2      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  2100 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/38 MP: 7/7
  2174 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  2659 | D:3      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
  2659 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3429 | D:3      | Noticed varedna's ghost (amateur MfMo)
  3442 | D:3      | Killed varedna's ghost
  3442 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  3442 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 30/45 MP: 5/8
  3948 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 34/51 MP: 4/9
  4821 | D:4      | Found Ostroteos's Antique Weapon Shop.
  4878 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  5333 | D:5      | Your scales start taking on a golden yellow colour.
  5333 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 60/60 MP: 3/10
  5677 | D:5      | Noticed a hippogriff
  5693 | D:5      | Killed a hippogriff
  5693 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  5693 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  6429 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  6449 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 59/69 MP: 7/11
  6840 | D:6      | Noticed Duvessa
  6840 | D:6      | Noticed Dowan
  6847 | D:6      | Killed Duvessa
  6858 | D:6      | Killed Dowan
  6972 | D:6      | You fall through a shaft!
  6972 | D:7      | Noticed stevs's ghost (novice VSMo)
  7099 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  7116 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 59/79 MP: 5/12
  7319 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7328 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7549 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of The Ieoh Jian Council
  7627 | D:7      | Killed stevs's ghost
  7627 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  7872 | D:6      | Found Sonnoboc's Food Emporium.
  7902 | D:6      | Noticed Sigmund
  7924 | D:6      | Killed Sigmund
  7941 | D:6      | Noticed Pikel
  7954 | D:6      | Killed Pikel
  8259 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  8772 | D:7      | Got a fine hat
  8778 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Ieoh Jian
  8781 | D:7      | Identified the +1 hat of Ujazeuv {rElec Str-2 Int+3} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  8918 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 67/90 MP: 6/13
  9512 | D:8      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  9985 | D:8      | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form
 10004 | D:8      | Noticed Maurice
 10012 | D:8      | Killed Maurice
 10012 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
 10181 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10187 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10381 | D:9      | Reached ** piety under Ieoh Jian
 10850 | D:9      | Noticed Joseph
 10872 | D:9      | Killed Joseph
 10872 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
 11660 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 11719 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
 11729 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 71/97 MP: 10/17
 11883 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Ieoh Jian
 12660 | D:8      | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands
 13379 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 13461 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13575 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 13591 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 13815 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 14140 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 14592 | D:11     | Reached **** piety under Ieoh Jian
 14771 | D:11     | Noticed a red ugly thing
 14780 | D:11     | Killed a red ugly thing
 15121 | D:11     | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 15131 | D:11     | Killed a six-headed hydra
 15677 | D:11     | Killed an unseen horror
 15939 | D:11     | Noticed a purple ugly thing
 15956 | D:11     | Killed a purple ugly thing
 15956 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
 16471 | D:11     | Killed an unseen horror
 16471 | D:11     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 19/106 MP: 17/20
 16820 | D:12     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 16832 | D:11     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 16832 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 17308 | D:12     | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 17780 | D:11     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 17793 | D:11     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 17793 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
 18229 | D:12     | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 18630 | D:12     | Reached ***** piety under Ieoh Jian
 18921 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 19541 | Lair:1   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 19555 | Lair:1   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 20196 | Lair:1   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 20213 | Lair:1   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 20732 | Lair:2   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 20736 | Lair:2   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 20736 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
 21431 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 116/116 MP: 19/21
 21454 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 22078 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 22154 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 22390 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 23357 | Lair:4   | Noticed varedna's ghost (journeyman TrMo)
 23377 | Lair:4   | Killed varedna's ghost
 23490 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation]
 24402 | Lair:4   | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 24681 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
 25888 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 28037 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: You have acidic saliva. [Yellow Draconian growth]
 28037 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 79/126 MP: 1/22
 28686 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat
 28865 | Lair:6   | Got a sparkling brass ring
 28866 | Lair:6   | Identified the ring of Searaokk {rPois rF+ rC+ Dex+4} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 29622 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 32227 | D:14     | Noticed Sonja
 32231 | D:14     | Noticed Sonja
 32231 | D:14     | Sonja changed into Sonja the sky beast
 32235 | D:14     | Killed Sonja the sky beast
 32475 | D:14     | Found Iqemumoe's Book Emporium.
 32486 | D:14     | Bought a book of Transfigurations for 825 gold pieces
 32504 | D:14     | Found Xom Usia's General Store.
 32518 | D:14     | Found Oqyih's Gadget Emporium.
 33528 | D:14     | Identified Narghay's Volume of Supportive Evil Secrets
 33781 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 34164 | D:14     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 91/135 MP: 18/24
 34335 | D:14     | Found Roarekh's Antique Weapon Shop.
 34365 | D:14     | Found Ninia's Gadget Shoppe.
 34459 | D:14     | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations
 34570 | D:14     | Reached ****** piety under Ieoh Jian
 34963 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 35141 | D:15     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 35248 | D:14     | Learned a level 6 spell: Hydra Form
 35254 | D:14     | Learned a level 5 spell: Irradiate
 35414 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
 36324 | D:15     | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 36969 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 38242 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 38857 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 39080 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 40305 | Orc:2    | Found Jennutiu's Armour Shop.
 40305 | Orc:2    | Found Lenne's Distillery.
 40307 | Orc:2    | Found Imosuk's Weapon Emporium.
 40309 | Orc:2    | Found Xotzyis's Jewellery Boutique.
 40314 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces
 40314 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of lignification for 42 gold pieces
 40314 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of lignification for 42 gold pieces
 40321 | Orc:2    | Bought an uncursed ring of protection from magic for 300 gold pieces
 40594 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 41419 | Swamp:1  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 138/143 MP: 19/29
 42082 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 42123 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Nikola
 42144 | Swamp:1  | Killed Nikola
 43444 | Swamp:1  | Learned a level 7 spell: Dragon Form
 43771 | Swamp:2  | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 43976 | Swamp:2  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 43984 | Swamp:2  | Killed a thorn hunter
 45560 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Aizul
 45567 | Swamp:3  | Killed Aizul
 46220 | Swamp:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Swamp
 46536 | Swamp:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 144/149 MP: 32/32
 46864 | Swamp:4  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 47053 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Donald
 47060 | Swamp:4  | Killed Donald
 47060 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 15 in Transmutations
 47596 | Swamp:4  | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form
 47798 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 47852 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic
 47902 | Snake:1  | Noticed Azrael
 47907 | Snake:1  | Killed Azrael
 47944 | Snake:1  | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 48134 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
 48143 | Snake:1  | Found Ruveanta's Assorted Antiques.
 48159 | Snake:1  | Bought a potion of haste for 200 gold pieces
 48159 | Snake:1  | Bought a potion of lignification for 60 gold pieces
 48693 | Snake:2  | Noticed Kirke
 48700 | Snake:2  | Killed Kirke
 50469 | Snake:3  | Noticed Roxanne
 50480 | Snake:3  | Killed Roxanne
 50918 | Snake:3  | Identified Roxanne's Tome of Moulding (You took it off Roxanne on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
 51101 | Snake:3  | Found Ysaat's General Store.
 51109 | Snake:3  | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 60 gold pieces
 51127 | Snake:3  | Bought a potion of might for 48 gold pieces
 51439 | Snake:3  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 157/157 MP: 34/34
 52073 | Swamp:2  | Got a pair of brightly glowing gloves
 52084 | Swamp:2  | Identified the cursed +0 pair of gloves "Viokuesk" {rPois rF++} (You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)
 52725 | Snake:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Snake Pit
 52735 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
 53227 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
 53562 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 54796 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 55192 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 19. HP: 166/166 MP: 29/35
 55694 | Snake:4  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 55809 | Snake:4  | Learned a level 5 spell: Yara's Violent Unravelling
 56317 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 56401 | Elf:1    | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 57182 | Elf:1    | Noticed Asterion
 57197 | Elf:1    | Killed Asterion
 57619 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat
 58396 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 58396 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 58396 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 58397 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 58398 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 58488 | Elf:2    | Found Moedwiomn's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 59373 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 59799 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 60415 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 108/178 MP: 30/36
 60607 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 18 in Unarmed Combat
 62519 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Jory
 62532 | Vaults:2 | Killed Jory
 62880 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Mennas
 62891 | Vaults:2 | Killed Mennas
 63059 | Vaults:2 | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 63075 | Vaults:2 | Noticed a bone dragon
 63076 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 63087 | Vaults:2 | Killed a bone dragon
 63087 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
 63122 | Vaults:2 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 63992 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat
 64908 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 119/188 MP: 24/37
 65281 | Vaults:3 | Found a ruined gateway.
 65289 | Desolati | Entered the Desolation of Salt
 65301 | Desolati | Learned a level 5 spell: Silence
 65906 | Desolati | Identified the ring of Qeinoso {MR+ Int+6 Dex+4} (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)
 66217 | Desolati | Identified the Collected Works on Mutagenic Boosts
 66296 | Desolati | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 66500 | Desolati | Got a twitching brass ring
 66501 | Desolati | Identified the ring "Salomac" {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ MR-} (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)
 66511 | Desolati | Identified the Handbook of Intoxication
 66738 | Desolati | Identified the +8 large shield "Haedavon" {rElec rC+ Str+3} (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)
 67141 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat
 68461 | Vaults:4 | Found Paputwalo's Antique Weapon Shop.
 68471 | Vaults:4 | Found Hied's Food Emporium.
 68505 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 199/199 MP: 32/38
 68864 | Vaults:4 | Found Wusmysk's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 68946 | Vaults:4 | Found Solaiwna's General Store.
 68967 | Vaults:4 | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 48 gold pieces
 69446 | Vaults:4 | Found Axoqase's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 69453 | Vaults:4 | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 39 gold pieces
 69453 | Vaults:4 | Bought a scroll of immolation for 45 gold pieces
 69824 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
 70037 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 70179 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 21 in Unarmed Combat
 70305 | Depths:1 | Noticed alphun's ghost (adept MiMo)
 70326 | Depths:1 | Killed alphun's ghost
 70813 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 71861 | Depths:2 | Found Tet Woimn's Jewellery Shoppe.
 71861 | Depths:2 | Found Yfant's Gadget Boutique.
 71862 | Depths:2 | Found Peuweg's Gadget Boutique.
 72355 | Depths:2 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 72469 | Depths:2 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 209/209 MP: 32/39
 72977 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 73334 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
 73524 | Depths:3 | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 73555 | Depths:3 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 73556 | Depths:3 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 73589 | Depths:3 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 73613 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 22 in Unarmed Combat
 73753 | Depths:3 | Identified the amulet of Niaggece {Regen+ Int+4} (You took it off a tengu warrior on level 3 of the Depths)
 73785 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 74438 | Depths:3 | HP: 3/316 [spriggan berserker/morningstar (30)]
 74463 | Depths:3 | HP: 9/316 [blizzard demon (10)]
 75179 | Depths:3 | Got a coiled copper ring
 75245 | Depths:3 | Identified the ring of Ixuwidau {MP+9 Str+4} (You took it off a tengu warrior on level 3 of the Depths)
 75470 | Depths:3 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 75714 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 75799 | Depths:4 | Found Tocorajueti's Gadget Emporium.
 75826 | Depths:4 | Reached XP level 24. HP: 221/221 MP: 37/39
 76129 | Depths:4 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 76821 | Depths:4 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 76833 | Depths:4 | Noticed Margery
 76840 | Depths:4 | Killed Margery
 77377 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 6 spell: Deflect Missiles
 77382 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Lightning Spire
 77565 | Depths:4 | Noticed a juggernaut
 77572 | Depths:4 | Killed a juggernaut
 77609 | Depths:4 | Got a pair of ancient boots
 77620 | Depths:4 | Identified the +1 pair of boots of Honesty {Dex+4} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 77800 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths
 77992 | Depths:5 | Paralysed by a floating eye for 4 turns
 78398 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 78401 | Depths:5 | Reached XP level 25. HP: 233/233 MP: 39/39
 78883 | Hell     | Entered the Vestibule of Hell
 78883 | Hell     | Noticed Geryon
 79303 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 79439 | Slime:2  | Gained mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [a shining eye]
 79443 | Slime:2  | Paralysed by a great orb of eyes for 4 turns
 79962 | Slime:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Pits of Slime
 80245 | Slime:5  | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 80245 | Slime:5  | Noticed the Royal Jelly
 80260 | Slime:5  | Killed the Royal Jelly
 80260 | Slime:5  | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic
 80292 | Slime:5  | Identified the Incunabulum of Dark Rituals and Conjuration
 80297 | Slime:5  | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 80329 | Slime:5  | Got a slimy rune of Zot
 81008 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes
 81173 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 81711 | Elf:3    | Noticed Louise
 82145 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 26. HP: 246/246 MP: 40/40
 82176 | Elf:3    | Cast into level 3 of the Abyss (Louise)
 82270 | Abyss:3  | Got an abyssal rune of Zot
 82281 | Elf:3    | Escaped the Abyss
 82302 | Elf:3    | Killed Louise
 82456 | Elf:3    | Identified the Tome of the Birds
 82533 | Elf:3    | Identified the Papyrus of Displacement
 82632 | Elf:3    | Identified the Guide on the Ashen Escort
 82753 | Elf:3    | Identified Vapnosta's Almanac of Mutagenic Ignition
 83175 | D:14     | Bought a book of Burglary for 1125 gold pieces
 83182 | D:14     | Learned a level 6 spell: Invisibility
 83315 | Crypt:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Crypt
 83415 | Crypt:1  | Noticed Sojobo
 83441 | Crypt:1  | Killed Sojobo
 84366 | Crypt:2  | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 85070 | Crypt:3  | Entered Level 3 of the Crypt
 85078 | Crypt:3  | Reached skill level 23 in Unarmed Combat
 85089 | Crypt:3  | Noticed Khufu
 85098 | Crypt:3  | Killed Khufu
 85740 | Crypt:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
 85936 | Crypt:3  | Noticed an ancient lich
 85951 | Crypt:3  | Killed an ancient lich
 85951 | Crypt:3  | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 85951 | Crypt:3  | Reached XP level 27. HP: 256/256 MP: 40/40
 86137 | Crypt:3  | Noticed an ancient lich
 86148 | Crypt:3  | Killed an ancient lich
 86271 | Crypt:3  | Identified the Compendium of Arcane Weapons
 86272 | Crypt:3  | Noticed an ancient lich
 86275 | Crypt:3  | Identified Gimoa's Guide on Nocuous Augmentations
 86278 | Crypt:3  | Killed an ancient lich
 86311 | Crypt:3  | Got a clouded amber ring
 86313 | Crypt:3  | Got a steaming bronze ring
 86362 | Crypt:3  | Identified the ring of the Dozen Gods {rN+ Int+3 Stlth+} (You took it off an ancient champion on level 3 of the Crypt)
 86363 | Crypt:3  | Identified the ring of Xiesuppi {rPois rC+++ rN+ MR- Str-3} (You took it off a necromancer on level 3 of the Crypt)
 86366 | Crypt:3  | Identified the amulet "Eqeikor" {Regen+ Str+4 Int+4} (You took it off a skeletal warrior on level 3 of the Crypt)
 86483 | Crypt:3  | Found a staircase to the Tomb.
 86747 | D:14     | Bought a book of Summonings for 1050 gold pieces
 86815 | Depths:1 | Learned a level 5 spell: Aura of Abjuration
 86998 | Zot:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot
 87085 | Zot:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
 88220 | Zot:2    | Reached skill level 24 in Unarmed Combat
 88279 | Zot:2    | Noticed an orb of fire
 88295 | Zot:2    | Killed an orb of fire
 89949 | Zot:4    | Reached skill level 25 in Unarmed Combat
 90633 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
 90962 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 90962 | Zot:5    | Paralysed by an ancient lich for 4 turns
 90973 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 91122 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91125 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91175 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 91177 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91186 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 91197 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91271 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 26 in Unarmed Combat
 91275 | Zot:5    | Got a smoking platinum amulet
 91276 | Zot:5    | Identified the amulet of Megalomania {RegenMP rC++ Dex-2} (You found it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)
 91435 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91437 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91437 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 15 in Invocations
 91444 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91454 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91460 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91462 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91466 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [an orb of fire]
 91469 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91475 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91632 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91637 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91682 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 91686 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [an orb of fire]
 91687 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 91688 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [potion of cure mutation]
 91688 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of cure mutation]
 91688 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of cure mutation]
 91688 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [potion of cure mutation]
 92254 | Zot:5    | Got the Orb of Zot
 92398 | Zot:3    | Noticed Fuyplagh the pandemonium lord
 92403 | Zot:3    | Killed Fuyplagh the pandemonium lord
 92545 | Depths:5 | Noticed Qengeut the pandemonium lord
 92559 | Depths:5 | Killed Qengeut the pandemonium lord
 92570 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 27 in Unarmed Combat
 92856 | D:13     | Noticed Fuegeniz the pandemonium lord
 92868 | D:13     | Killed Fuegeniz the pandemonium lord
 93132 | D:4      | Noticed Jadoiry the pandemonium lord
 93136 | D:4      | Killed Jadoiry the pandemonium lord
 93201 | D:4      | Noticed Oluahuor the pandemonium lord
 93246 | D:$      | Escaped with the Orb!
             

Vault maps used:
D:1:      ldierk_walled_garden_2, solitary_fountain
D:2:      kennysheep_okawaru_gauntlet, roderic_bipointed_swastika
D:3:      first_bread
D:4:      serial_shops, nicolae_shop_statue_plus, minmay_misc_feat_iff,
          serial_bayou_pond_c, minmay_goblin_kobold_house
D:6:      kennysheep_mini_moat, serial_shops, kennysheep_little_box,
          kennysheep_generic_room_3, uniq_duvessa, uniq_sigmund, uniq_pikel
D:8:      trog_ov_bears_minmay, grunt_ogre_cave, lemuel_another_geyser,
          uniq_maurice
D:9:      tgw_xom, david_orc_4, uniq_joseph
D:10:     lair_entry_dummy
D:12:     st_stairs_11, minmay_ruined_shrine
D:13:     kennysheep_decorative_pillar
D:14:     grunt_vaults_entry_fortified, serial_shops, shop_fountains,
          nicolae_shop_overgrown_old_shop, shop_statue, shop,
          nicolae_shop_window_shopping, minmay_stone_trees_small, uniq_sonja
D:15:     gammafunk_depths_entry_grave, hangedman_decor_points
Temple:   dpeg_five_rooms_temple
Lair:3:   nicolae_swamp_entry_splash_gauntlet, guppyfry_snake_entry_island,
          portal_ice_cave_rime, grunt_megastairs_2
Lair:4:   enter_volcano_1, columned_hall_lemuel, lemuel_oklob_altar,
          grunt_megastairs_5
Lair:6:   gammafunk_lair_ancient_temple, minmay_slime_entry_eyes
Swamp:1:  nicolae_swamp_fairy_circle, swamp_pool2, st_swamp_ruins_2,
          infiniplex_staircase_pool, uniq_nikola
Swamp:2:  hangedman_swamp_blocks, nicolae_swamp_orc_logging_accident,
          grunt_ruined_hall, infiniplex_staircase_pool_2
Swamp:3:  evilmike_swamp_ruin_house_6, uniq_aizul
Swamp:4:  swamp_fiery, uniq_donald
Snake:1:  basic_altar, serial_shops, shop, uniq_azrael
Snake:2:  nrook_guardian_serpent_snake_passage, st_stairs_11,
          basic_loot_grate_trap, uniq_kirke
Snake:3:  serial_shops, shop, st_stairs_6, grunt_ministairs_10,
          serial_bayou_shore_b, grunt_megastairs_1, uniq_roxanne
Snake:4:  minmay_snake_end_coiled, spider_trap, hangedman_corner_corridor
Slime:1:  nicolae_slime_barrier
Slime:4:  cheibrodos_slime_lost_civilization_7
Orc:2:    st_orc_rangers
Elf:1:    basic_altar, hangedman_elf_represent, hangedman_elf_targetted_burst,
          uniq_asterion
Elf:2:    serial_shops, nicolae_shop_stone
Elf:3:    minmay_elf_hall_hex, uniq_louise
Vaults:1: vaults_mumra_lcd, nicolae_vaults_alarming, hangedman_vaults_slice,
          v_misc_30, v_misc_1, vaults_room_grunt_arrival_checkpoint, v_misc_28,
          vaults_dpeg_ring, special_room_vaults
Vaults:2: vaults_mumra_chevron_long, nicolae_vaults_arrows, v_pattern_5,
          vaults_room_hangedman_quadrants, nicolae_vaults_asterisk, v_misc_32,
          minmay_crypt_entry_nasty_monster, nicolae_trove_entry_free_sample,
          basic_altar, uniq_mennas, uniq_jory
Vaults:3: nicolae_vaults_windows_and_doors_thing, nicolae_vaults_circle_grid_a,
          v_misc_28, hangedman_vaults_corner, vaults_room_boxed,
          nicolae_vaults_an_arrangement, v_misc_11, ontoclasm_vaults_shuriken,
          nicolae_vaults_big_ls, nicolae_vaults_circle_grid_b,
          nicolae_vaults_asterisk, portal_desolation_entry_salt
Vaults:4: ontoclasm_vaults_claustrophobia, vaults_dpeg_doors,
          ontoclasm_vaults_misaligned, vaults_standard_mumra_x,
          grunt_vaults_hallway_long, ontoclasm_vaults_idyll, vaults_room_pools,
          v_misc_1, nicolae_vaults_rhombus_6, vaults_dpeg_encased_lava,
          vaults_room_semicircle, serial_shops, shop, nicolae_shop_trees,
          nicolae_shop_behind_doors, nicolae_shop_stone, shop
Vaults:5: serial_shops
Crypt:1:  glass_columns_c, grunt_ministairs_4, grunt_crypt_arrival_webbed,
          grunt_megastairs_3, uniq_sojobo
Crypt:3:  david_glass_crypt, nicolae_tomb_entry_grand_gallery, st_stairs_4,
          uniq_khufu
Depths:1: grunt_hell_entry_dis_grunt, minmay_misc_feat_secret_circle,
          minmay_misc_feat_roman, abandoned_shop
Depths:2: kennysheep_ogre_elephant_herders, lemuel_round_altar, hell_entry,
          grunt_megastairs_4, firewood_loft, minmay_shop_grove
Depths:3: grunt_profane_halls, pan_entry, hell_entry
Depths:4: minmay_nine_rooms, enter_ziggurat_f, serial_bayou_lagoon_a,
          hell_entry, serial_shops, shop, abyss_entry, hangedman_decor_riveting,
          grunt_decor_cap, uniq_margery
Depths:5: evilmike_zot_entry_round, grunt_decor_fettered, hell_entry,
          st_stairs_6
Zot:2:    hangedman_zot_decor_tridents
Zot:3:    grunt_zot_stairs_faceoff
Zot:4:    bh_zot_lava_cross
Abyss:3:  grunt_abyss_rune_forest_and_sorcery

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Fighting       |  2  3           4  5  7  8  9    11 12 13             15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 25 | 25.3
Poison Magic   |        1  2                                                                      |  2.3
Unarmed Combat |           5     6  8  9       10 12 13 14          16 17 19 20 21 22       23 27 | 27.0
Dodging        |                       3  7  8     9 10 11          13    14 15 16 17    18       | 18.6
Transmutations |                             5  8        9 12 14 15                               | 15.9
Ice Magic      |                             3  4                                                 |  4.0
Spellcasting   |                             4  5        6  9 11 12                      13    14 | 14.1
Invocations    |                             1  3  4  7                                     10 16 | 16.6
Conjurations   |                                            4                                     |  4.2
Earth Magic    |                                                  9                               |  9.0
Stealth        |                                                     1  3  6  8  9                |  9.6
Charms         |                                                     3              5  9          |  9.2
Air Magic      |                                                                    6  7 10       | 10.2
Hexes          |                                                                    3     7  9    |  9.1
Necromancy     |                                                                             2    |  2.4
Summonings     |                                                                             2  8 |  8.6

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   121 |   183 |   221 |   832 |  1248 |  1055 |  1145 |  1026 |  1645 ||  7476
       Kick              |     6 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     8
       Tailslap          |     9 |    13 |    14 |    46 |   127 |   161 |   166 |   175 |   321 ||  1032
       Headbutt          |     3 |     1 |       |       |   152 |    48 |    33 |    68 |   213 ||   518
       Punch             |     3 |     2 |     2 |    12 |    54 |    76 |    83 |   125 |   172 ||   529
       Eveningstar       |       |       |       |       |     8 |       |       |       |       ||     8
       Bite              |       |       |       |       |    64 |   104 |   127 |   146 |   229 ||   670
       Dire flail        |       |       |       |       |     6 |       |       |       |       ||     6
       Executioner's axe |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     7 ||     7
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    21 ||    21
 Cast: Beastly Appendage |    14 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    16
       Sticks to Snakes  |     4 |     3 |     1 |     7 |       |       |       |       |     7 ||    22
       Spider Form       |     1 |    19 |    22 |    51 |     2 |       |       |       |       ||    95
       Blade Hands       |       |       |       |    18 |    89 |     5 |     1 |       |     3 ||   116
       Ice Form          |       |       |       |    10 |    24 |       |       |       |       ||    34
       Hydra Form        |       |       |       |       |    18 |    10 |       |       |       ||    28
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     8 |    12 |    14 |     6 |       ||    40
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |     2 |     8 |    30 |    24 |    20 ||    84
       Dragon Form       |       |       |       |       |       |    50 |    68 |    51 |    55 ||   224
       Irradiate         |       |       |       |       |       |     4 |    17 |     7 |    13 ||    41
       Statue Form       |       |       |       |       |       |    14 |    13 |    19 |    36 ||    82
       Yara's Violent Un |       |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |       |       ||     6
       Deflect Missiles  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     5 ||     7
       Summon Lightning  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Silence           |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Invisibility      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     8 ||     8
       Aura of Abjuratio |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Invok: Heavenly Blade    |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |     1 |       |     3 ||     6
       Steel Dragonfly   |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |     1 ||     2
 Abil: Breathe Acid      |       |       |    15 |    23 |    34 |    13 |    21 |    21 |     4 ||   131
       End Transformatio |       |       |       |     1 |     6 |     3 |     5 |       |     1 ||    16
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     4 |     1 |       |       |     1 ||     6
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |       |     6 |     5 |    18 |    18 |    11 |    18 |    23 ||   101
       Potion            |       |     1 |     2 |     3 |     4 |       |     4 |     4 |    11 ||    29
 Stab: Distracted        |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |       |     2 |     2 |     7 |     8 ||    22
       Sleeping          |       |     1 |       |     5 |     1 |       |    10 |     8 |    19 ||    44
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    34 ||    34
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |     5 |    12 |    27 |    50 |    33 |    90 |    51 |    17 ||   289
       Bread ration      |       |     2 |     1 |     5 |     3 |     1 |       |     1 |     5 ||    18
       Beef jerky        |       |       |     1 |       |     2 |       |       |       |     1 ||     4
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |     2 |     5 |    10 |       |     1 |    11 ||    29
       Fruit             |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 |       |     1 |     1 ||     6
       Pizza             |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Skin              |    44 |    47 |    38 |   101 |   200 |   423 |   438 |   342 |   569 ||  2202
Dodge: Dodged            |   104 |   123 |   143 |   689 |   989 |   749 |   699 |   767 |  1546 ||  5809
       Deflected         |       |       |       |       |    15 |    33 |    39 |    34 |    86 ||   207



I already told you pretty much all my feedback via in-game chat already; here are some final thoughts.

1. Does lunge require you to move in a straight, cardinal line? Would be nice if it worked diagonally, too, even when the adjecent victim is not on your opposite side.
2. I was able to wield a divine weapon in dragon form at one point in the game but you already fixed that if I understood correctly.
3. I was unable to get off many slows with whirlwind and as a consequence, not many boosted lunges. It was still amazing for the "en-passant" damage, however.
4. I'd probably revisit invo scaling a little; it is very easy to get both abilites castable at very low invocations, but takes quite the investment to make them last longer.
5. I hope this makes it into the game. Really fun god.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 83

Joined: Thursday, 26th May 2016, 13:22

Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 08:34

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

I'm trying out the new version and it's nice, less fiddling with the weapons. I do feel that you should be able to project your weapon and call for a heavenly blade at the same time though. I understand you don't want people to project multiple weapons so you can't project a weapon then wield one from your inventory but when you project then call for a divine weapon you are spending a lot of piety to see one weapon jump back into your inventory. There is no mention that this will happen ether so people will waste the piety the first time they try the combo.

e.) I'm unsure how the extra damage from lunge works. The bonus damage is pretty clear from slow, "the foo can't react fast enough', but the distracted bonus is less clear. I haven't seen anything from it yet, or haven't noticed, and don't know if it works with other sources of ? or just from the vault 'distraction'. I know that slow from any source works as I have been zapping slow on enemies before lunging, but I don't know it and enemy with ? from an ally flanker gets the lunge bonus.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 365

Joined: Monday, 7th January 2013, 08:22

Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 17:36

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

removeelyvilon wrote:1. Does lunge require you to move in a straight, cardinal line? Would be nice if it worked diagonally, too, even when the adjecent victim is not on your opposite side.

Yep. I don't want it to work diagonally because you'd either have to make Lunge an AoE move (which would cause a load of balance issues) or there should be a way to dictate which target of the possible three gets hit, which would have to be asymmetric and spoilery.

removeelyvilon wrote:3. I was unable to get off many slows with whirlwind and as a consequence, not many boosted lunges. It was still amazing for the "en-passant" damage, however.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll revisit the chances.
removeelyvilon wrote:4. I'd probably revisit invo scaling a little; it is very easy to get both abilites castable at very low invocations, but takes quite the investment to make them last longer.

Point taken :)
removeelyvilon wrote:5. I hope this makes it into the game. Really fun god.

Thanks!

PlatinumSpider wrote:I'm trying out the new version and it's nice, less fiddling with the weapons. I do feel that you should be able to project your weapon and call for a heavenly blade at the same time though. I understand you don't want people to project multiple weapons so you can't project a weapon then wield one from your inventory but when you project then call for a divine weapon you are spending a lot of piety to see one weapon jump back into your inventory. There is no mention that this will happen ether so people will waste the piety the first time they try the combo.


The reasons for this aren't based on balance, but come rather from lessons learned when trying out the initial version of the god. Having multiple weapons out causes all sorts of inventory management headache, but I'll see what I can do. I agree it's not ideal at the moment :)

PlatinumSpider wrote:e.) I'm unsure how the extra damage from lunge works. The bonus damage is pretty clear from slow, "the foo can't react fast enough', but the distracted bonus is less clear. I haven't seen anything from it yet, or haven't noticed, and don't know if it works with other sources of ? or just from the vault 'distraction'. I know that slow from any source works as I have been zapping slow on enemies before lunging, but I don't know it and enemy with ? from an ally flanker gets the lunge bonus.


You should also be getting a "The foo was looking away!" message when lunging at distracted enemies. It should also work against enemies distracted by means other than wall jumping, but I'll revise that it's actually the case, because I am not sure.
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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 22:15

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:
PlatinumSpider wrote:I'm trying out the new version and it's nice, less fiddling with the weapons. I do feel that you should be able to project your weapon and call for a heavenly blade at the same time though. I understand you don't want people to project multiple weapons so you can't project a weapon then wield one from your inventory but when you project then call for a divine weapon you are spending a lot of piety to see one weapon jump back into your inventory. There is no mention that this will happen ether so people will waste the piety the first time they try the combo.


The reasons for this aren't based on balance, but come rather from lessons learned when trying out the initial version of the god. Having multiple weapons out causes all sorts of inventory management headache, but I'll see what I can do. I agree it's not ideal at the moment :)

But divine weapons shouldn't take up inventory slot, correct? I mean, it unequips your weapon anyway, so why should it matter if it's floating around or not?
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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:45

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

dracos369 wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:
PlatinumSpider wrote:I'm trying out the new version and it's nice, less fiddling with the weapons. I do feel that you should be able to project your weapon and call for a heavenly blade at the same time though. I understand you don't want people to project multiple weapons so you can't project a weapon then wield one from your inventory but when you project then call for a divine weapon you are spending a lot of piety to see one weapon jump back into your inventory. There is no mention that this will happen ether so people will waste the piety the first time they try the combo.


The reasons for this aren't based on balance, but come rather from lessons learned when trying out the initial version of the god. Having multiple weapons out causes all sorts of inventory management headache, but I'll see what I can do. I agree it's not ideal at the moment :)

But divine weapons shouldn't take up inventory slot, correct? I mean, it unequips your weapon anyway, so why should it matter if it's floating around or not?


You're right. I've revisited the code and now everything works (hopefully) more like what you were expecting. There are no ways the god can cheat you out of piety now, and you can have your own weapon + 1 divine out.

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Post Wednesday, 11th January 2017, 19:37

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Dragonfly has been reworked into a much shorter and cheaper version. It should now feel like an interesting nuke rather than a summon, and therefore not step on Heavenly Blade's toes so much.

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Post Monday, 16th January 2017, 19:14

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Just played the weapon-less council the other day and really enjoyed the whirlwind, wall jump and surge attacks. Being able to attack and move and play positionally with a melee character like that is innovative and fun! Great Job!

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 08:34

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

After having some discussions with the dev team and realizing that Steel Dragonfly is still too complicated, and personally noting that it just doesn't work very well with the kit, I am going to code a substitute skill for Steel Dragonfly that I'm very excited about:

(****)Serpent's Lash
(3 MP, 3 Piety, Exhaustion, Instant): Your next two movement actions are instant.

This ability has immediate synergy with the rest of the god's tools, because allows you to reposition to land that extra blow, or run away from a sticky situation using wall jump. I believe the effect is much stronger that it looks, hence the 3 piety cost.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 17:01

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:(****)Serpent's Lash[/b](3 MP, 3 Piety, Exhaustion, Instant): Your next two movement actions are instant.


Does "movement action" mean any movement, or only whirlwind, luch, or wall jump? If it's the latter, I would reword it to make it clear.

That said, the change makes sense. Steel Dragonfly was a cool ability but kind of a remnant of when the god was all about floating weapons everywhere, and this one fits nicely with it being the god of movement-based combat, rather than the god of floating weapons.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 17:38

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

long post, but a number of suggestions come to mind at this point!

1. Any chance Serpent's Lash could made be available at low piety? It'd give IJC worshippers a much-needed early game panic button.

2. We chatted about this in-game a bit, but after winning a DsTr^IJC last week, I'd really consider cutting the crosstraining with unarmed unless the flavor you want includes no IJC worshipper using weapons in late game.

Basically, optimal IJC play right now is to train unarmed exclusively once you convert and give up weapons entirely once your skill gets into the 20's. (This is especially true if blade hands exists in the game. AOE blade hands is unbelievable.) Probably--though I'm not sure--even the divine weapons might end up being sort of a trap, especially if you get a two-handed one and lose your (by then pretty strong) off-hand punch; I'm pretty sure the new ability (which looks like an awesome idea) will always be a better use of piety. I guess mainly I don't like this for role-playing reasons: I want to be able to choose how my character fights, rather than be funneled inevitably into a single choice.

So all things considered, I think it'd be better if IJC worshippers had to commit either to going weapons or going unarmed, just like everybody else. The universal crosstraining would still benefit weapon users and it would still be irrelevant to unarmed species like trolls or felids; it just wouldn't make it the dominant choice for the player to always use weapons early game and never use them late game.

3. You might also consider lowering the enchantment a bit on the divine weapons (or lowering them at first and making them scale more steeply with Invocations) but also making them last way longer--potentially for the better part of a level at very high Invocations skill.

I really liked how in earlier versions of the god, they could last through multiple encounters, particularly if you didn't rest much. This yielded the potentially interesting strategic choice between resting and keeping your weapon longer, which strikes me as a choice worth preserving. As a bonus, I think the ability would _feel_ more like getting to borrow a special weapon, rather than like a generic buff, if you kept it long enough to get used to it a little.

4. Finally, it still feels weird to me that the IJC doesn't use Invocations for ANYTHING until the final ability. While my previous suggestion would let Invo matter more, it might be more elegant just to make the IJC a non-invocations god and either make the enchantment & duration of the divine weapons constant, or tie it to something else (like piety or XL or weapon skill, maybe).

If you wanted to go with something like the previous suggestion, here's one way to implement both that strikes me as promising: rather than having a constant piety cost, summoning a divine weapon drains your piety at a constant rate until it falls under 5*, the threshold for using the ability in the first place. So it's a pretty long-term commitment: you get the weapon, but once it's gone you have to earn back a lot of piety to use it again. (Of course, having a divine weapon wouldn't prevent you from earning piety too. So the faster you killed, the longer you'd keep the weapon--in the Council's eyes, your meritorious skill and audacity would make you more deserving of it!)

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 17:48

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

luckless wrote:If you wanted to go with something like the previous suggestion, here's one way to implement both that strikes me as promising: rather than having a constant piety cost, summoning a divine weapon drains your piety at a constant rate until it falls under 5*, the threshold for using the ability in the first place. So it's a pretty long-term commitment: you get the weapon, but once it's gone you have to earn back a lot of piety to use it again. (Of course, having a divine weapon wouldn't prevent you from earning piety too. So the faster you killed, the longer you'd keep the weapon--in the Council's eyes, your meritorious skill and audacity would make you more deserving of it!)


This is genius. I need to ask the devs how feasible this is, but I love it.

I think you'd have to make the initial cast take some piety from you too, and have a grace period so you can't immediately lose it.

Alternatively, I could unlock the skill at ****** as a form of capstone.
Last edited by Steel Neuron on Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 17:51

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Quazifuji wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:(****)Serpent's Lash[/b](3 MP, 3 Piety, Exhaustion, Instant): Your next two movement actions are instant.


Does "movement action" mean any movement, or only whirlwind, luch, or wall jump? If it's the latter, I would reword it to make it clear.

That said, the change makes sense. Steel Dragonfly was a cool ability but kind of a remnant of when the god was all about floating weapons everywhere, and this one fits nicely with it being the god of movement-based combat, rather than the god of floating weapons.


Yep, it does allow you to use martial attacks, and I will reword it so there's no possibility of confusion :)

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 18:06

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:Alternatively, I could unlock the skill at ****** as a form of capstone.
Seems like the way to do it, offhand.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 18:38

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

luckless wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:Alternatively, I could unlock the skill at ****** as a form of capstone.
Seems like the way to do it, offhand.


Btw, just wanted to point out that your last feedback post is increible. I'm going to take lots from it, because you phrased several of my concerns really well.
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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 19:01

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

1. I take it that, with steel tempest gone, there is now no way to summon a floating divine weapon?

2. New ability sounds nice.

3. I really don't see why UC is supposed to be THE way to play this god. Seems to me that the optimal weapon choice would be whatever the best weapon is you find because of boosted cross-training.
And divine weapons are either borderline useless or mildy inconvenient for a UC user because a. most forms can't use weapons and b. you'd have a slightly lower skill level.

4. Any chance for a dragon's palm comeback? #Allweneedisfaith

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 19:40

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

removeelyvilon wrote:3. I really don't see why UC is supposed to be THE way to play this god. Seems to me that the optimal weapon choice would be whatever the best weapon is you find because of boosted cross-training.
Well, at really high skill, UC is better than the best weapon you'd find, no matter what it is.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 19:43

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

removeelyvilon wrote:3. I really don't see why UC is supposed to be THE way to play this god. Seems to me that the optimal weapon choice would be whatever the best weapon is you find because of boosted cross-training.
And divine weapons are either borderline useless or mildy inconvenient for a UC user because a. most forms can't use weapons and b. you'd have a slightly lower skill level.


Luckless really is on to something. The thing with non-IJC worshippers is that they have to get over the initial hump of building an unarmed character: UC pays off in the late game in exchange for a comparatively weaker early game. IJC currently allows you to bypass the UC early game and transition safely into an overpowering form of UC with access to AoE and other tools, without having paid the price.
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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 20:11

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Super random Idea! Add the "Oni's Kanabō" (GC or GSC) divine weapon for large worshippers.

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Post Wednesday, 18th January 2017, 22:35

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:
luckless wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:Alternatively, I could unlock the skill at ****** as a form of capstone.
Seems like the way to do it, offhand.


Btw, just wanted to point out that your last feedback post is increible. I'm going to take lots from it, because you phrased several of my concerns really well.

great to hear it! it's really fun to see suggestions make an impact!

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Post Friday, 20th January 2017, 13:33

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Set of changes on today's version (Already up at CBRO!):

  • No more unarmed cross-training. Only melee weapon skills crosstrain now (but you can still specialize in Unarmed if you desire).
  • Steel Dragonfly is out, Serpent's Lash is in!
  • Heavenly Blade has been reworked into a very high cost (50 piety) very long duration (5000 auts) weapon loan.
  • The momentum effects have been unified with a single model. You "have momentum" when wielding a Heavenly Blade, or when under the effect of Serpent's Lash. While you have momentum, your martial attacks deal more damage and have increased status chance.
  • The god is (yet again) invocations free.
  • All vestige of animated weapons has been eradicated. IJC is now fully a movement and speed god! Rejoice, enemies of Chei!

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Post Thursday, 26th January 2017, 12:18

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

After another round of playtesting, I've been brewing up a new set of changes that will again push the god towards simplification, and in this case towards being less powerful in general, because with the new revision we're back in the "too good" spectrum.

Big Change 1: No more cross-training.
  • Cross training is an artifact of earlier versions of the god. With the changes to Heavenly Blade that I will bring up later, there is no mechanic that depends on, or benefits from the player having access to all weapon skills.
  • In my conversations with testers, I've found that cross-training is the biggest point of confusion. Even though it's an already existing mechanic, the player doubts about what to train and in which order get exacerbated when it becomes a major mechanic of the god.
  • Even if mildly, it does encourage hoarding.
  • SK_UNARMED_COMBAT crosstraining used to have significant balance issues (brought up very nicely by luckless). Excluding UC is not elegant either, forcing unarmed users to take a different and unsatisfying path through the god.

Big Change 2: Slight Heavenly Blade rework
  • Heavenly Blade will be called Heavenly Relic, because not all things it gives are blades.
  • The divine weapon you get will be chosen based on your highest weapon skill, with preference to one-handed variants if you're wearing a shield, two-handed if not.
  • There will be a couple other relics that aren't quite weapons:
    • Divine Claws of the Dragon/Tiger: A set of gloves that provide high Slaying, momentum+ and brand your unarmed attacks with Flaming and Elec respectively. You get this if your highest skill is UC, and you can wear gloves.
    • Divine Golden Bracelet: A bracelet that takes the Gloves slot but can be equipped on any species, which gives moderate Slaying and momentum+. You get this if you're wielding problematic weapons (vamp, distortion, !w, etc), or if your highest skill is UC and can't wear gloves, because you're a felid, have claws, etc. This item is important because it acts as a default to fall back into, making the ability always useful, even for characters who either can't wear weapons or have found one they want to stick to. It's also important to have the separation with the gloves mentioned before, because unarmed characters with normal hands should be the ones benefitting the most from martial arts, and it also tones down the already advantaged natural weapons.
  • In all cases, you are forbidden to equip or unequip weapons or the relic for the duration of the effect, for simplicity.
  • The skill description is modified to reflect that you request help in the form of a "powerful divine relic" that will aid you in combat.

Possible Big Change 3: Claustrophobia as a conduct
This is still undecided, but it is possible that, despite the indirect nerf with the removal of cross training, the god is still extremely powerful. If so, there is a conduct idea that I want to test. In the current incarnation, IJC encourages fighting in the open, but its behaviour when you choose NOT to fight in the open is to simply switch off, for lack of a better description. Other gods with similar upsides don't just allow you to sidestep the god's intent at will, so my intention with this mechanic is to not only reward you when you're fighting in the open, but punish you when you're not; so killholes simply are not an option.

Claustrophobia: Theme is something I have to work on here, but IJC users feel the compulsion to stay in the open and are disadvantaged when fighting in close spaces. If you are surrounded by 5 or more solid tiles, you get a status effect. Clau(1) at 5 solid tiles, to Clau(4) at 9 solid tiles. The debuff acts as a temporary skill drain (all your skills are severely reduced until you move out of the enclosed area). The magnitude of this debuff increases with Piety, maxing out at piety ****. At maximum intensity, each point of Claustrophobia will mean a 15% skill decrease, so you get -30% to all skills while standing on a corridor, and -45% when trapped in a hole.

I think removing cross training, we are left with enough UI real estate and design space to add this downside without substantially increasing the god's complexity. Whether or not this conduct is needed, I'd like to hear your opinion, but I think it would be worth testing at least :)

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Post Thursday, 26th January 2017, 16:27

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:After another round of playtesting, I've been brewing up a new set of changes that will again push the god towards simplification, and in this case towards being less powerful in general, because with the new revision we're back in the "too good" spectrum.

Big Change 1: No more cross-training.
  • Cross training is an artifact of earlier versions of the god. With the changes to Heavenly Blade that I will bring up later, there is no mechanic that depends on, or benefits from the player having access to all weapon skills.
  • In my conversations with testers, I've found that cross-training is the biggest point of confusion. Even though it's an already existing mechanic, the player doubts about what to train and in which order get exacerbated when it becomes a major mechanic of the god.
  • Even if mildly, it does encourage hoarding.
  • SK_UNARMED_COMBAT crosstraining used to have significant balance issues (brought up very nicely by luckless). Excluding UC is not elegant either, forcing unarmed users to take a different and unsatisfying path through the god.

Big Change 2: Slight Heavenly Blade rework
  • Heavenly Blade will be called Heavenly Relic, because not all things it gives are blades.
  • The divine weapon you get will be chosen based on your highest weapon skill, with preference to one-handed variants if you're wearing a shield, two-handed if not.
  • There will be a couple other relics that aren't quite weapons:
    • Divine Claws of the Dragon/Tiger: A set of gloves that provide high Slaying, momentum+ and brand your unarmed attacks with Flaming and Elec respectively. You get this if your highest skill is UC, and you can wear gloves.
    • Divine Golden Bracelet: A bracelet that takes the Gloves slot but can be equipped on any species, which gives moderate Slaying and momentum+. You get this if you're wielding problematic weapons (vamp, distortion, !w, etc), or if your highest skill is UC and can't wear gloves, because you're a felid, have claws, etc. This item is important because it acts as a default to fall back into, making the ability always useful, even for characters who either can't wear weapons or have found one they want to stick to. It's also important to have the separation with the gloves mentioned before, because unarmed characters with normal hands should be the ones benefitting the most from martial arts, and it also tones down the already advantaged natural weapons.
  • In all cases, you are forbidden to equip or unequip weapons or the relic for the duration of the effect, for simplicity.
  • The skill description is modified to reflect that you request help in the form of a "powerful divine relic" that will aid you in combat.

Possible Big Change 3: Claustrophobia as a conduct
This is still undecided, but it is possible that, despite the indirect nerf with the removal of cross training, the god is still extremely powerful. If so, there is a conduct idea that I want to test. In the current incarnation, IJC encourages fighting in the open, but its behaviour when you choose NOT to fight in the open is to simply switch off, for lack of a better description. Other gods with similar upsides don't just allow you to sidestep the god's intent at will, so my intention with this mechanic is to not only reward you when you're fighting in the open, but punish you when you're not; so killholes simply are not an option.

Claustrophobia: Theme is something I have to work on here, but IJC users feel the compulsion to stay in the open and are disadvantaged when fighting in close spaces. If you are surrounded by 5 or more solid tiles, you get a status effect. Clau(1) at 5 solid tiles, to Clau(4) at 9 solid tiles. The debuff acts as a temporary skill drain (all your skills are severely reduced until you move out of the enclosed area). The magnitude of this debuff increases with Piety, maxing out at piety ****. At maximum intensity, each point of Claustrophobia will mean a 15% skill decrease, so you get -30% to all skills while standing on a corridor, and -45% when trapped in a hole.

I think removing cross training, we are left with enough UI real estate and design space to add this downside without substantially increasing the god's complexity. Whether or not this conduct is needed, I'd like to hear your opinion, but I think it would be worth testing at least :)


I think increasing the penalty as you increase piety is problematic, it encourages tedious piety management and punishes you for increasing piety. I would probably just have the punishment be a set value. (If it is even needed, getting no bonuses is punishment enough, imho, as an example, you don't get any skill bonuses with ash if you aren't wearing cursed items, and it works fine)
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Post Thursday, 26th January 2017, 16:38

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Siegurt wrote:I think increasing the penalty as you increase piety is problematic, it encourages tedious piety management and punishes you for increasing piety. I would probably just have the punishment be a set value.


But that's exactly how Qaz and Chei work... I think it's fine as long as the increase in drawback is compensated with an increase in your power. That's also why I'm only scaling it to ****, so you aren't punished to go past the point at which you don't gain any new abilities.

Siegurt wrote:(If it is even needed, getting no bonuses is punishment enough, imho, as an example, you don't get any skill bonuses with ash if you aren't wearing cursed items, and it works fine)


This is a question of power level at this point. If other people agree with me that the god is too strong, it needs to be toned down, and I'd rather do it through an interesting mechanic than through power decreases which may affect the balance between martial attacks, which I think is at an ideal position right now.

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Post Thursday, 26th January 2017, 19:57

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

I played a VpEn to V: 5 today and have a few points.

First of all, I really hope this god is added to Trunk! It would be an amazing addition to the game. The movement abilities are a whole lot of fun. I don't know if this is intentional, but whirlwind is quite similar to Sil's flanking and whirlwind skills combined (a little weaker, though). I remember Half, the creator of Sil, said that flanking is such a popular and powerful skill not because it's always the most optimal way to play the game, but because it's the most fun. Since you're enjoying yourself more when you use it, you pay more attention and are less likely to make serious mistakes. After getting used to the Council, that's my feeling here. Regardless of its power level, the fact that such simple changes so drastically change the approach to combat make the game a great deal more enjoyable to play!

Second, some feedback specific to my build. I played a stabber and this god is very, very strong for short blade users. I decided to play VpEn after looking at the code for the martial maneuvers and it pays off. Not only do you get free reaching on all your stabs, you can use serpents' lash to get an extra tile (or two, I'm not sure how it works) to stab important enemies. You also can use wall jump and whirlwind to stab entire groups of enemies from a good distance away. Finally, and most importantly, the maneuvers normalize the average damage per aut of all weapons against AC, taking away the major weakness of short blades. Other weapon types, especially demon whips and lajatangs, might still end up better, but a rapier of speed, not an extremely uncommon weapon, is simply amazing under the council.

I don't actually think any of that is bad. Stabs are still unreliable and aren't really better than a passwall stabber of Ash. Vinestalkers also are quite effective with shortblades and shortblades are still a weak and underused weapon type. It's also quite appropriate that the speed and mobility god is extremely beneficial to fencers.

Finally, I am worried that the god is too strong. I can't judge clearly, though, because I found the robe of vines quite early in the game and leaned on it heavily.I think, at least, that attaching slow to whirlwind is too powerful, and this is from a character with a pretty reliable metabolic englaciation. Whirlwind is the heart of this god, the other abilities are important and extremely good, but it's whirlwind that defines your play style and allows you to safely manage crowds in a big open space. You should be using it over and over again in every fight. Perhaps slow and distraction should be switched, or slow should be replaced with a much weaker effect.

I'm not sure claustrophobia is an appropriate conduct. In theory it's great, but in practice it could be really annoying when the map just refuses to let you fight on terrain that doesn't heavily penalize you. I think there is still room to weaken the martial skills (nerf slow and distraction) before applying a conduct to the god.

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Post Friday, 27th January 2017, 10:24

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

huiren wrote:I played a VpEn to V: 5 today and have a few points.

First of all, I really hope this god is added to Trunk! It would be an amazing addition to the game. The movement abilities are a whole lot of fun. I don't know if this is intentional, but whirlwind is quite similar to Sil's flanking and whirlwind skills combined (a little weaker, though). I remember Half, the creator of Sil, said that flanking is such a popular and powerful skill not because it's always the most optimal way to play the game, but because it's the most fun. Since you're enjoying yourself more when you use it, you pay more attention and are less likely to make serious mistakes. After getting used to the Council, that's my feeling here. Regardless of its power level, the fact that such simple changes so drastically change the approach to combat make the game a great deal more enjoyable to play!


Thank you very much for the detailed feedback! I'm very impressed with the depth of your analysis. It's also encouraging to hear that you've been enjoying the god so much :)

huiren wrote:Second, some feedback specific to my build. I played a stabber and this god is very, very strong for short blade users. I decided to play VpEn after looking at the code for the martial maneuvers and it pays off. Not only do you get free reaching on all your stabs, you can use serpents' lash to get an extra tile (or two, I'm not sure how it works) to stab important enemies. You also can use wall jump and whirlwind to stab entire groups of enemies from a good distance away. Finally, and most importantly, the maneuvers normalize the average damage per aut of all weapons against AC, taking away the major weakness of short blades. Other weapon types, especially demon whips and lajatangs, might still end up better, but a rapier of speed, not an extremely uncommon weapon, is simply amazing under the council.

I don't actually think any of that is bad. Stabs are still unreliable and aren't really better than a passwall stabber of Ash. Vinestalkers also are quite effective with shortblades and shortblades are still a weak and underused weapon type. It's also quite appropriate that the speed and mobility god is extremely beneficial to fencers.


You're right in your judgement that IJC is very good for stabbers, and the normalization against AC is a big factor in that. It's worth nothing that even after damage normalization, heavier weapons will still do significantly more damage than short blades, but you're given the option to perform slower attacks for a better payout through movement.

huiren wrote:Finally, I am worried that the god is too strong. I can't judge clearly, though, because I found the robe of vines quite early in the game and leaned on it heavily.I think, at least, that attaching slow to whirlwind is too powerful, and this is from a character with a pretty reliable metabolic englaciation. Whirlwind is the heart of this god, the other abilities are important and extremely good, but it's whirlwind that defines your play style and allows you to safely manage crowds in a big open space. You should be using it over and over again in every fight. Perhaps slow and distraction should be switched, or slow should be replaced with a much weaker effect.


This is reassuring to hear, because the way you describe how you've been using the martial attacks is entirely intended. This is a problem that I worked hard to solve, which is that whirlwind should be the move you use most often, where wall jump and lunge need to be situational but powerful in their own uses. As we discussed in game, the reason for this is to prevent degenerate play styles that emerge naturally if Lunge or Wall Jump are the strongest "spammable" move. That said, I agree there are some subtle things that can be done for whirlwind. In particular, I'm looking at severely reducing the slow duration, so it lasts roughly twice as long as the distraction.

huiren wrote:I'm not sure claustrophobia is an appropriate conduct. In theory it's great, but in practice it could be really annoying when the map just refuses to let you fight on terrain that doesn't heavily penalize you. I think there is still room to weaken the martial skills (nerf slow and distraction) before applying a conduct to the god.


I'm careful not to break the balance that we have achieved with the three martial attacks, so I'd rather take from other aspects of the god before touching these. That was my intention with the removal of cross-training. I'm still quite intrigued by the idea of claustrophobia, so I might just make use of these remaining days of experimental branch to give it a try and see how testers react to it.

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huiren

Lair Larrikin

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Post Friday, 27th January 2017, 12:27

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Steel Neuron wrote:I'm careful not to break the balance that we have achieved with the three martial attacks, so I'd rather take from other aspects of the god before touching these. That was my intention with the removal of cross-training. I'm still quite intrigued by the idea of claustrophobia, so I might just make use of these remaining days of experimental branch to give it a try and see how testers react to it.


On the martial attacks:

Personally, I think the ability to keep parity (or even very often to have the advantage) between attacks given and received against groups of enemies in the open is a good enough reason to use whirlwind a whole lot. I don't think it needs any debuff attached to it at all, let alone one so powerful as slow. Similarly, I find wall jump to be quite strong enough even without distraction. I think it would work better if both of these applied an "off balance" effect that maybe stops movement for one turn and otherwise only serves to prime lunge. It could then happen at a higher rate than the current debuffs to make sure that you should still be lunging often. Although you should be lunging often regardless; even an ordinary lunge is a big boost. If the result of this is that some players under-use the martial attacks then the fault is theirs for not realizing how powerful they can be in the right situation.

On claustrophobia:

I'm just a little bit worried that at some points it will simply be impossible to avoid the penalty at all, or extremely annoying to do so. Pulling monsters back through very long corridors could get frustrating and I think some level layouts, like ice caves, are almost nothing but long, narrow corridors broken up by occasional small, open spaces.

Of course, it's possible I'm completely wrong. My VpEn basically had this conduct at times. The rapier of speed was good against heavily armored opponents in the open, but I was terrified of being trapped with no place to move because it simply didn't put out enough damage against heavy enemies. This added to tension and made the game a lot more fun for me. But I worry that it might be overly burdensome in certain situations.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 399

Joined: Thursday, 16th June 2011, 18:36

Post Friday, 27th January 2017, 16:09

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

I love the Claustrophobia conduct idea. Some maps will be more Claustrophobic than others -- terrain is interesting.

Numbers are odd though.

>Clau(1) at 5 solid tiles, to Clau(4) at 9 solid tiles.

9 solid tiles is impossible because you can't coexist with a wall. 8 never happens because if it could, it would break the game for players who just used their last teleport.

7 is a dead end and absolutely punishable by a conduct since no map forces you into a dead end (except stairs, in which case use them, or use different stairs). You could easily play a whole game and never voluntarily step into a dead end, so it could be on the order of "don't attack sleeping things" for TSO. You could hit'em with a couple turns of paralysis. Claustrophobic areas of the Abyss would be hard because sometimes you can't tell if a square will be a dead end until you step on it. Still avoidable.

6 is a corridor which are everywhere, but no map is all corridors with no rooms. Player emotion upon being forced to fight in a corridor should be "alarmed". Escape!

5 is a T intersection in a corridor. Clau(1) could be made tolerable enough that a council player can put up with it when needed. Player emotion: "nervous".

Running through corridors at Clau(2) would absolutely give the feeling of "I gotta get back into the open" which completely turns on its head the standard feeling of "I gotta get out of the open" that is the familiar crawl experience. Go for it!
Won with: KeAE^Sif, NaWz^Sif, NaTm^Chei, SpEn^Nmlx, GrEE^Qaz, HOFE^Veh, MiBe^Trog, DrFE^Hep, FoFi^Zin, CeHu^Oka.
In Progress: GnSk.
Long-term goal: complete the pantheon.

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Steel Neuron

Slime Squisher

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Post Saturday, 28th January 2017, 13:25

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

Changes are in. Starting early tomorrow in CBRO, no more crosstraining, proper support for unarmed and corner cases via the bracelets, and new claustrophobia conduct :)

EDIT: Also, I've substantially decreased whirlwind's slow duration. It should last 6-8 turns now, about three times as much as distract, but not be effectively endless as it used to.

Temple Termagant

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Joined: Monday, 13th April 2015, 03:15

Post Thursday, 2nd February 2017, 20:05

Re: Weapon-less Ieoh Jian Council (now implemented)

I've found a bug with wall jump. If you use Shift+[direction] to move into a wall, your character will waste multiple turns wall jumping repeatedly until something else happens to stop auto-movement. With no monsters around, a Shift+move will waste hundreds of turns until the character changes hunger status to Hungry or lower. Maybe possible to waste even thousands+ turns if you bothered to use a Mu^Ieoh.
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