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Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Tuesday, 3rd January 2017, 21:40
by removeelyvilon
I thought long and hard about this but I don't see a gameplay reason why it shouldn't be instant. In fact, I guess when you want to end your form for whatever reason it would be ideal to instead assume another form because it's faster (this could be wrong, though) except when you are an lich form in which case you can't because transformations require a living body. It's rather weird how it works, anyway.

If this was meant as some sort of tactical cost, it is a rather uneffective that comes into play very rarely one. The manifold inherent weak spots of the individual forms should take care of that. The only edge cases I can think of is if you are in lich form and you really have to get out quickly because something with confusion shows up and you care about that for some reason. Or you need to cast Borg or DD. Who knows.

And it's midly annoying if you want to hop as a frog atm unless hop becomes available in all forms but even then I'd rather have end transformation to be instant.

@duvessa: Yes, I know nobody should ever be in lich form in the first place. Ever. But Xom might force it on you. Edit: But then you can't end it anyway, I suppose...

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 00:08
by Sprucery
To me the most significant effect regarding end transformation taking a turn is when I have Blade Hands and want to zap a wand.

If Blade Hands must block wands (open to debate) then imo ending the transformation should take a turn as it does.

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Wednesday, 4th January 2017, 01:12
by bel
Blade hands and spider form give negative wizardry, which can be pretty significant. I don't know if it "should" exist, but it does. Any discussion of making ending transformation instant should take this into account.

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Friday, 6th January 2017, 00:36
by pedritolo
Also, while in lich form, death's door won't work, and you can't quaff. If you were in distress and wanted to do either, i like it that there is a strategic cost of 1 turn for reverting to human form.

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Monday, 9th January 2017, 14:44
by PowerOfKaishin
bel wrote:Blade hands and spider form give negative wizardry, which can be pretty significant. I don't know if it "should" exist, but it does. Any discussion of making ending transformation instant should take this into account.


Generally speaking, when Spider Form is actually relevant, the penalty for ending it isn't the turn wasted but the 10 EV you lose.

As for Blade Hands, you have to cast it again to get back to what you were doing. Coincidentally, all or at least most of the balance issues with instantly ending Blade Hands are circumvented in some way: there's no evocable Tele, you can still read scrolls, and if you have Blade Hands castable then you can probably cast all of RMsl, Swiftness, Blink, and S2S with whatever negative wizardry you have.

Also the player doesn't lose a turn when these spells wear off naturally, so they shouldn't lose a turn ending them pre-emptively. It's often optimal to run away for 20 turns in order for you not to lose one. In addition, less spell power is better since it only affects the duration. That doesn't make much sense.

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Thursday, 26th January 2017, 20:25
by duvessa
End transformation semi-recently got sped up, so you no longer use beastly appendage to untransform. It's still dumb as the post above me explains, though. Also the wand restriction shouldn't be a thing in the first place

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Thursday, 26th January 2017, 22:22
by MarvinPA
duvessa wrote:End transformation semi-recently got sped up, so you no longer use beastly appendage to untransform.

Pretty meaningless trivia either way, but that wasn't a useful way to untransform quickly since for the entire time period when untransforming took 1.5 turns, so did switching forms.

Re: Make "End Transformation" instant

PostPosted: Thursday, 26th January 2017, 22:47
by duvessa
Haha what