Werewolf race?

[Voxden]

We've got Undead(Including Vampires!), why not make a Werewolf race? Can use MP to transform between Human(oid) form and Werewolf form, the Humanoid Form has the normal base advantages of a human(with a few were-wolf themed advantages tacked on, and maybe a couple human ones removed(if possible)), and the Werewolf Form acts like a Troll with Claws(but with enough distinguishing changes to make it something unique.).

This could be a way for people who want to Form Change, but are not magic fans.... also, the race roster might be big already(with Beast-Hybrid Races), but this could be a different way to go about it.

Also, at a certain EXP Level, they can rage at will(tho at an even bigger cost than magical, or trog(ical) means).

Not sure this will get a whole lot of support, but I figured throwing the idea out there could be for some amusement to pass the time.

[Lacuenta]

Wow nobody thought about this ever!!

(sorry I'm on a sarcastic spree)

Check these:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18116&p=248254&hilit=werewolf#p248254

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17129&p=234968&hilit=werewolf#p234968

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12358&p=173678&hilit=werewolf#p173678

and this one: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15306&p=209323&hilit=lycanthrope#p209323

Many have tried, will you succeed?

[Voxden]

Wow nobody thought about this ever!!

(sorry I'm on a sarcastic spree)

Check these:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18116&p=248254&hilit=werewolf#p248254

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17129&p=234968&hilit=werewolf#p234968

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12358&p=173678&hilit=werewolf#p173678

and this one: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15306&p=209323&hilit=lycanthrope#p209323

Many have tried, will you succeed?

I do like the idea myself, so I decided to revive the little trend for the time being. We will see if it ever happens, but in the mean time... this is part time-killer, part see what happens kind of a topic.

I can imagine the postmen Kobold's and Goblins in the dungeons will be running away from certain entrances of the dungeon saying with signs over them saying "Before of Werewolves" someday.

[Croases]

A lava orc-ish werewolf race that gets a wolf gauge and involuntarily transforms for massive stat bonuses (including badform-like, XL-based UC so that you aren't forced into an UC build in your normal form) during extended combat could be pretty neat, actually.

[chequers]

A few brainstorm ideas:

1. Instead of a 'charge up' for transformation (which is really exploitable, lava orc design had encouraged some really tedious hypothetically optimal playstyles), just have a fixed cost. For example, a small drain each turn while transformed ("you forget your human memories over time").

2. A design where your aptitudes change when transformed. For example untransformed you have -5 UC, while transformed you have +5. This essentially gives the form "bonus" skill, and encourages you to transform.

3. No need to restrict the werewolf to UC only. It's boring from a gameplay perspective and crawl's lore is flexible enough to ignore it. Let werewolves be able to use all weapons.

[Dioneo]

Would this really need to be a race? If it's a human with innate abilities then there doesn't seem much reason to ever play as a human, even if you don't intend to use the transformation ability.

I'm thinking it may be better to have this given by a god, giving you the power to transform and adding extra related abilities as you gain piety. It may even be interesting to tie this to a monster, similarly to how Orcs can convert to Beogh when encountering an orc priest. You'd fight some kind of werewolf-monster which would have a chance to "infect" you with lycanthropy, at which point you'd be given the option to "accept the blessing of [god's name]". If you reject the offer you'll be afflicted by some debuff for a while, as you "fight off" the condition. Worshippers of Zin (and perhaps The Shining One) would be protected from this.

[kuniqs]

Or make werewolfitis (rabies?) a bad mutation

[Shard1697]

There was talk earlier of moving transmutations in general onto a god, which I personally would be interested in.

[Speleothing]

Re-using the Beogh code to do lycanthropy as a 'curse' would be pretty interesting, and possibly the best version. Make the "Wolfman" an orc-priest tier threat so they show up around d:5-d:10, with a Depths "Lycan" version if you feel like it's a god people might swap into.

- Shaggy Fur mut+1
* Weakness to silver, Bite attack mut+1
** Claws mut +1, other Wolfmans encountered (& player ghost werewolves) are friendly like freed slaves
*** Wolf-form (a felid with +regen) - piety cost to activate as an escape form. Uses Inv for success and duration, but easy to train up
**** howl - Inv-based piety cost ability with MR-check to Fear, paralyze, or Confuse enemies. Inv determines activation & results, much harder to get reliable
**** ???? (no new abilities?)
***** hybrid form - high piety cost, UC form (Claws 3 bite 3, talons 2, regen++, Wizardry--, blurry vision 1), partial equipment merge, similar activation difficulty to wolf-form

Undead, VS, Gr, Op, Fo, and DG are immune to the curse. Wrath causes equipment merge, shouting, random Tmut or Charms miscast.

[tankra]

I thought that having it be a religion could be nice, but actually upon further reflection, it's not so great. That's because once again we reach the same point as was mentioned by archaeo in one of the threads linked earlier:

We've tried to come up with a werewolf species a few times before.

The problem as I see it is that Crawl already has a "become more monstrously powerful with XL species" in Demonspawn, and it already has "transform into a dangerous beast" with Transmuters. In order to make a Werewolf species different, you end up having to pile on a ton of complicated, fiddly mechanics, only to end up with something that does what DSTm does with twice as many moving parts. Crawl already has too many species that are just near-copies of other species.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18116&p=248254&hilit=werewolf#p248211

Basically, whatever powers that a werewolf species or god would give would be in conflict with other things that exist in the game, and thus be redundant, regardless of the method of transmission.

That being said, I think we already have a lycanthropy mechanic in the game, it just goes by a different name: berserkitis. All you would need to do is remove it from the list of mutations, turn it into a "curse" that can only be acquired by being bitten by some sort of werewolf unique monster (that appears in maybe 1/3rd of games, around D6-D8), and add some minor buffs to the actual mutation to make it situationally useful.

The curse mechanic could be a series of messages like "You feel slightly/severely/irreversibly cursed with the full moon's madness" which would apply a "CURSED" debuff of a whole new colour, and basically be cancelled by reading a scroll of remove curse before reaching "irreversibly".

In terms of what the curse would actually do, it would just be a modified version of berserkitis. This is what berserkitis does right now:
1 1% chance of berserking each time you attack. Reduces chance of passing out afterwards to 3%.
2 Same, with a 3% chance of berserking and 2% chance of passing out.
3 Same, with a 9% chance of berserking and 1.5% chance of passing out.

Lycanthropy could just add a progression of +fighting skills or apt, claws, and/or random appearance wolf allies that then attack you at the end of your transformation. Maybe this berserk would leave you exhausted but not slowed? I am not exactly sure about what would make this unique/fun, but I think it should offer something more than simply just berserkitis, otherwise it would just be stupid to ever *not* uncurse yourself.

As a final point, this mechanic could be used for other curses, basically turning curses into a new type of mutation that is permanent once it "sets in", and comes with severe downsides in exchange for potentially cool character options.

[kuniqs]

So basically just make curses an another kind of mutation, with exactly the same problems mutations have (It's best to not mutate yourself, even with !oBenefical, because you can get horns with those)

FR: give werewolf species berserkitits.

[Psieye]

Agreed that Lycanthropy does not warrant a new species. Adding a pseudo-mutation that gets cured with Remove Curse instead of Cure Mutation is at least novel, but not sure if it warrants dev time.

Outright making lycanthropy a mutation (berserkitis with badform) injected by a werewolf unique sounds good.

[Speleothing]

We could also modify current berserkitis to give a bite attack & fur while berserking. No new mechanics regarding ?Remove Curse instead of !Cure Mut

[tankra]

Fair enough, I can accept this as well. The rationale behind my suggestion was that as it is right now, mutations can't really be relied on as a permanent ability your character possesses, for reasons I won't get into but I'm sure you all understand. Basically, having it be a "you're cursed, and it'll be permanent if you don't do something soon" effect would turn it into a new category of mutation that could be relied upon, for better or for worse, to follow your character around forever. If you let the curse set in, you would just be a lycanthrope now, period, rather than just being able to quaff a potion and go back to normal. I feel that having it this way rather than as a normal mutation adds an interesting new type of choice for the player, wouldn't be a no-brainer (because there are severe downsides of course), and basically fits that itch of "werewolf" in a more fun way than just saying "berserkitis is lycanthropy now".

That being said, if I'm the only one who thinks the curse idea would be fun or worth the effort of adding it into the game, I would gladly settle for "berserkitis is lycanthropy now". That sounds better than current berserkitis anyway.

[Psieye]

Basically, having it be a "you're cursed, and it'll be permanent if you don't do something soon" effect would turn it into a new category of mutation that could be relied upon, for better or for worse, to follow your character around forever. If you let the curse set in, you would just be a lycanthrope now, period, rather than just being able to quaff a potion and go back to normal.

First pass draft:
- Give the lycanthropy mutation 3 tiers, optionally with actual differences between the tiers.
- Make lycanthropy a 'self-upgrading' mutation: over time it naturally 'regens' back to Tier 3.

Second pass draft:
- On being 'infected', receive a 'Core' mutation
- Over time, this 'Core' gives you new 'Auxiliary' mutations: fur, berserkitis, hunger, whatever else fits
- The 'Core' cannot be removed until all the lycanthropy 'Auxiliary' mutations are removed first

I think it's appropriate to ask Zin to properly cure your lycanthropy if it set in. If undesired, have Zin ban werewolves as elligible worshippers.