Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 746
Joined: Thursday, 5th December 2013, 04:01
Monday, 14th November 2016, 19:54
Improve Stat Clarity
This issue came up in the Demigod thread, but I'd been considering making a thread on it anyway and I thought maybe it was better for it to have its own discussion than to hijack the Demigod thread with it. In particular, the issue that came up was that many new players seem to severely underrate Demigods because the impact of their stat bonuses isn't very clear.
Basically, stats are opaque. While I'm not an expert playing I'm pretty experienced (around 20 wins), and I still barely understand stats. I know in vague terms what the stats do - strength boosts weapon damage and counter armour encumbrance, intelligence is good for spells, and dex boosts EV and weapon accuracy - but I know there are a ton of other interactions too (like aux attacks), and have no idea how to evaluate stat boosts on gear and decide when they're useful or not.
Really, stats feel like one of those systems that goes against DCSS's design but is still there as an RPG/Roguelike tradition. Most other attributes have one clear, relatively easy-to-evaluate effect, and yet stats are just a big jumble of bonuses that are never clearly quantified anywhere. Overall, they're very opaque, yet they show exact numbers even though the exact number is hard to quantify and not necessary to know (a reasoning that has been used to argue against showing other exact numbers like MR many times).
Stats do serve a useful function from a game design standpoint, so I don't think removing them would necessarily be the right idea (or at least would involve non-trivial other changes), but I think some sort of measure needs to be taken to make them clearer, whether it's an interface solution or actual mechanical changes.
Unfortunately, I don't have a solution in mind, but I thought it would be good to start a discussion about whether there is a way to improve the stat system in order to make the impact of stat improvements more clear.
Basically, stats are opaque. While I'm not an expert playing I'm pretty experienced (around 20 wins), and I still barely understand stats. I know in vague terms what the stats do - strength boosts weapon damage and counter armour encumbrance, intelligence is good for spells, and dex boosts EV and weapon accuracy - but I know there are a ton of other interactions too (like aux attacks), and have no idea how to evaluate stat boosts on gear and decide when they're useful or not.
Really, stats feel like one of those systems that goes against DCSS's design but is still there as an RPG/Roguelike tradition. Most other attributes have one clear, relatively easy-to-evaluate effect, and yet stats are just a big jumble of bonuses that are never clearly quantified anywhere. Overall, they're very opaque, yet they show exact numbers even though the exact number is hard to quantify and not necessary to know (a reasoning that has been used to argue against showing other exact numbers like MR many times).
Stats do serve a useful function from a game design standpoint, so I don't think removing them would necessarily be the right idea (or at least would involve non-trivial other changes), but I think some sort of measure needs to be taken to make them clearer, whether it's an interface solution or actual mechanical changes.
Unfortunately, I don't have a solution in mind, but I thought it would be good to start a discussion about whether there is a way to improve the stat system in order to make the impact of stat improvements more clear.
- For this message the author Quazifuji has received thanks: 7
- chequers, Cimanyd, duvessa, Elitist, luckless, VeryAngryFelid, ZipZipskins
