Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps


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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 8th November 2016, 22:43

Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

This issue has been discussed before, but I'm currently convinced that blocking the Zot 5 lungs with traps is an absolutely terrible mechanic, so I thought I'd make a post. Admittedly, I'm currently frustrated because I just lost a character to this, but I've still felt this way for a while.

Basically, there are three situations when traps block the lungs:

  1. Teleport trap: This gives you one of two options. Either you can lure enemies to the teleport trap, then hope they get teleported out of the lungs (and if you really want to be optimal, search the lungs to hunt them down if they did). This is incredibly tedious. The other option is to just take the teleport, which essentially is a massive, massive dice roll that can easily result in the lungs being exponentially dangerous than they normally would be.
  2. Zot Trap: Like teleport trap, it's a big dice roll, where the results can range from insignificant, to tedious, to crippling.
  3. Other traps: Pretty much insignificant.

Basically, blocking off the Zot lungs with teleport traps or Zot traps creates situations where the only option you have is to roll the dice and desperately hope you don't get screwed over. Is that really an interesting or fun mechanic to have, at all? Especially on the last level of the game, when you've been playing for a while, losing because the game gave you a choice between incredible tedium or randomly teleporting and hoping you don't end up in a deadly situation seems like a pretty bad mechanic.

It seems like the idea behind blocking the lungs with traps is to add some extra random challenge to make the lungs varied. That's not a bad goal, but I just think teleport and zot traps are the wrong way to achieve it, because the variance in how dangerous stepping on them could be is absurdly, absurdly high, ranging from "harmless" to "you're dead and there's basically nothing you can do about it." Having both lungs blocked by zot traps or teleport traps doesn't feel like a fun challenge, it feels like the game deciding to force me into a stupid gamble that might randomly screw me over at the last minute.

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Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 8th November 2016, 23:03

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

just use a scroll of blinking to go over the trap

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 00:05

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

spam random blink spell until you go over the trap

(I have never bothered to do this)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 00:19

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

Quazifuji wrote:the only option you have is to roll the dice and desperately hope you don't get screwed over. Is that really an interesting or fun mechanic to have, at all?


This is the whole point of traps, they put you into extremely dangerous situation where you have a high chance to die unavoidably. Unfortunately, according to devs it is interesting and fun (not dying but putting) :(
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 01:47

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

Traps are terrible design yeah but like, in this specific situation...just teleport instead of doing killdudes? I find it hard to think of a situation where you should be at any actual risk of dying from this.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 07:33

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

duvessa wrote:Traps are terrible design yeah but like, in this specific situation...just teleport instead of doing killdudes? I find it hard to think of a situation where you should be at any actual risk of dying from this.


Well, in the game I just played I bounced around the lungs being pelted by attacks from Ancient Liches, OoFs, and Curse Toes until I died without ever having an opportunity to leave the lungs or get to the orb. I'm sure I made a mistake somewhere, but it sure felt like I just got killed by bad luck.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 08:36

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

duvessa wrote:Traps are terrible design yeah but like, in this specific situation...just teleport instead of doing killdudes? I find it hard to think of a situation where you should be at any actual risk of dying from this.

Do you have a secret way to control teleporting? You can teleport 10 times in a row in the middle of enemies you know.

(I don't mind the traps myself, they make games more interesting, but definitely there is a risk of dying.)
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Wednesday, 9th November 2016, 12:37

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

they should be removed because they either introduce the tedium of going and hunting down a +blinck item. or they a stupid and spolery and make you carry around a +blink item for the last level of zot. Fo don't care about the tele traps so this doesn't apply to them.
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 10:22

Re: Don't Block Off the Zot 5 Lungs with Traps

I just ran into a case of both lungs being blocked by Zot traps. I don't know how much they had to do with me dying (mostly I was just careless and moths of wrath exist), but that's not the point I want to make.

This is a tile that forces you to deliberately type out "yes" every time you want or have to step on it for whatever reason. Its effects are varied, random, mostly inconsequential, but sometimes annoying and very occasionally slightly dangerous. An unspoiled player has no idea what exactly is going to happen to them, and no way of knowing that I can see. An experienced or spoiled one only knows a list of what *could*. Checking the learndb just now, it doesn't even actually give you such a complete list. I know that it includes banishment, hostile summons, and raw damage.

I really do not see why potentially forcing the player to either go through that or (Seriously? Really?) spam uncontrolled blinks until they land on the other side in order to reach the Orb is a good thing. If we must have traps, okay. I don't generally care whether they exist or not, personally. Zot and teleportation traps, however, are deliberately obnoxious, random, spoilery (what can a Zot trap do, exactly? Hell if I know, and I've been playing for years), and the former doesn't even want to let you step on the damn thing and get it over with. The latter is annoying at best (let's yoink around to completely random parts of the map and hope it works out! Whee!) and potentially can really screw you over (two orbs of fire, three golden dragons, an ancient lich, and a moth of wrath come into view!) because you had the audacity to...step on a tile. That you had to step on to win the game. And I don't see how random blinking is an acceptable solution.

It beats the vibrating square, I...guess?

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