Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 01:20

Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Let me paint you a picture with words:

I am a human fighter, using M&F, worshipping Okawaru. Okawaru, kind god that he is, gifts me Spellbinder at some point, which I happily use. Tragically though, this situation plays out far too commonly:

1. I hit a spellcaster, and they get a miscast
2. It's a summon! A smoke demon fights by my side
3. I hit them again and they get another miscast
4. It's a magical explosion, which hits my demon, and is attributed to me
5. Now I'm under Okawaru penance and I have a hostile demon fighting me.

I have no idea what a solution to this problem would look like, but it is infuriating and I would appreciate it if we could all come together as a team to solve it.
take it easy

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 01:23

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Don't have involuntary/unintentional miscasts make allies hostile?
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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 01:24

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

The solution lies with the fact that spellbinder is busted to summon demons and then make them aggro

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 01:41

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

you could have just posted
  Code:
spellbinder[4/4]: !lg * cikiller~~Spellbinder 2 -tv

Spoiler: show
  Code:
The orc wizard's magic leaks into the air.
There is a sudden explosion of magical energy!
The explosion engulfs the orc wizard.
The orc wizard is severely wounded.
The explosion engulfs the orc.
You kill the orc!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The explosion engulfs the orc.
You kill the orc!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The explosion engulfs you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
The explosion engulfs your Hell Sentinel.
Your Hell Sentinel is lightly wounded.
You feel very guilty.
"You will pay for your transgression, mortal!"
The orc wizard is severely wounded.
You block the orc wizard's attack. The Hell Sentinel hits you!!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 02:38

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

jwoodward48ss wrote:Don't have involuntary/unintentional miscasts make allies hostile?
Could (presumably)attribute them to the enemy which miscast instead of the player who caused the miscast.

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 03:50

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Get rid of okawaru's terrible ally conduct? While we're at it, prevent allies from turning hostile (except on a timer, when that applies).

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Sar

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 04:54

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

that's the fun part of Spellbinder, though...

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 05:35

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

amaril wrote:Get rid of okawaru's terrible ally conduct? While we're at it, prevent allies from turning hostile (except on a timer, when that applies).


Yeah, it's really silly that a god who doesn't even provide allies has a penance-inducing conduct involving them. I understand that it's there for flavor reasons, but it's dumb for gameplay purposes and needs to go.

I'd certainly be happy to see ally turning leave too, it's much more annoying than interesting 90% of the time, but at the very least Okawaru's conduct needs to go, and involuntary explosions like Spellbinder need to not be attributed to the player.

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 10:45

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Sar wrote:that's the fun part of Spellbinder, though...

I am indeed amused by "the ally you 'summoned' with Spellbinder is then 'hurt by' the Spellbinder". Okawaru's ally conduct, I'm not so amused by. Is there a mechanical balance reason for Okawaru's Views on allies?

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 12:58

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

It's kind of a weird holdover, Oka used to take piety away whenever allies died, thankfully that was removed. I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.

I've never used spellbinder. Do the miscast effects hurt you too?

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 13:57

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Just change Okawaru to give "Sacrifice love" mutation already and refuse Ds as worshipers (I am sure Ds is strong enough to survive the nerf).
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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 18:08

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

dowan wrote:It's kind of a weird holdover, Oka used to take piety away whenever allies died, thankfully that was removed. I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.

I've never used spellbinder. Do the miscast effects hurt you too?

I had 62 AC that game so it was hard to tell. Summoned twisters definitely hurt though...
take it easy
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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 18:29

Hey, "Okawaru grants you a gift!" is a new message for the topic Famous last words !

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 19:11

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

VeryAngryFelid wrote:(I am sure Ds is strong enough to survive the nerf).
I don't think Okawaru is.

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 19:14

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

duvessa wrote:I don't think Okawaru is.


Really? It's one of the best gods for melee (especially UC) and ranged characters. Also it can make some sense from flavor point of view, Heroism should mean you are a hero, not a summoner who joined Oka for gifts.
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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 19:34

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

The problem is, most Crawl characters are summoners. There are so many great items that give you allies - wand of enslavement, phial of floods, sack of spiders, box of beasts...
This change would also basically remove Tm^okawaru.

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Post Tuesday, 1st November 2016, 19:54

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

it's not like Oka is hard to buff tho- imagine the abilities as passives, or better gifts
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Post Saturday, 5th November 2016, 06:16

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Have allies turn neutral the first time you strike them and hostile the second time you strike them.

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Post Saturday, 5th November 2016, 23:54

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

dowan wrote:I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.


Which is a pretty terrible reason to ever leave a mechanic in the game that is as completely gameplay-oriented as DCSS. Really, small rules that are rarely relevant are exactly the kinds of things that shouldn't be in the game because they almost always are just fiddly spoilery mechanics that don't add anything meaningful.
Last edited by Quazifuji on Sunday, 6th November 2016, 05:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Monday, 7th November 2016, 17:02

Re: Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

Mod note: I split off a bunch of stuff about god conducts pertaining to Dith and TSO. The root of the OP's experience has enough going on without bringing other deities into the mix.
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