Change to amulet of harm removal rules.

[WingedEspeon]

FR: remove *Drain from harm. Instead, make the player unable to remove harm except when at full health.

The current state of amulet of harm makes it so that it is sub optimal to try on unknown amulets in the early dungeon even if you have scrolls of remove curse, as both harm and the draining penalty would punish the player enough that this risk outweighs the potential benefit from a beneficial amulet. This seems to contradict the design philosophy of crawl in that it makes an entire class of item not usable despite all of the work the devs put into developing these items. Furthermore, a character that wears harm later in to game can often treat the drain from removing the amulet as not particularly important and simply swap the amulet out when going into a dangerous situation bypassing the downside of harm. With this change, players can no longer degeneratly take off the amulet of harm whenever that want, and at the same time can try amulets on again without having to resort to sub optimal play.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Probably it should require full MP also, I can imagine casting conjurations and then removing the amulet. Though there is still a problem with launchers. I like *Fragile idea from adjacent thread.

[luckless]

Sounds like it could work. Alternatively, maybe putting on and/or removing amulets of harm could cut your current HP in half.

[minstrel]

Spitballing: remove amulet of harm and potion of might, replace with "potion of harm", that has the effect of amulet of harm. Plays a little into the theme of potions/scrolls that have both good and bad effects, like lignification/immolation.

[jwoodward48ss]

And then merge !flight and !agility, and we've "removed" two potions! Have we met our quota yet?

[Lasty]

Sounds like it could work. Alternatively, maybe putting on and/or removing amulets of harm could cut your current HP in half.

That was the original draft of the penalty for "regen, the premise being that, like faith, it takes away what it gives. Other devs didn't like the idea because it meant that you might have to rest up after wear-iding amulets. I suppose that's already true of scroll of torment, tho.

[Shard1697]

And then merge !flight and !agility, and we've "removed" two potions! Have we met our quota yet?

I would actually like to see this happen(I think I've said this before?)

Consolidates inventory space, makes sense from a flavor perspective(easier to dodge when you're flying around!), and makes Te's bonus flight EV not a special case.

[WingedEspeon]

pressing '5' after wear IDing one amulet is a lot better than not getting to wear amulets. And there is scroll fo torment like you mentioned.

[Lacuenta]

Disagree.
Harm makez the id game actually relevant.
Instead of; "its d3 I probably haz rm curse somewhere in un'id'd scrolls, YOLO!"

[Arrhythmia]

Disagree.
Harm makez the id game actually relevant.
Instead of; "its d3 I probably haz rm curse somewhere in un'id'd scrolls, YOLO!"

The ID game is bad, though, and making it relevant is both the opposite direction it should go and the opposite direction crawl has historically gone.

[kuniqs]

How about making Harm an invocable Trog ability? Seems thematic. Would make Trog more attractive to archers, too, since Harm is most useful to them.

[njvack]

How is Trog not already insanely attractive to archers?

[Sar]

If harm effect is considered to be interesting, I don't see blocking spellcasters from using it as a positive effect.

[kuniqs]

Ye can't zerk and shoot at the same time.

[nago]

You can zerk and kill things easier with 0 melee skill