Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow


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Shoals Surfer

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 21:02

Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

As it stands, Mottled Draconian stands in the way of several other interesting variations of one race. Their breath weapon is lackluster, their aptitude changes are minimal and covered by Red and Steam in greater detail, and they have virtually no resistances attributed to them (Sticky Flames comes up even sparser than Steam, which is an in-game interaction between fire and water and the power of one enemy). They also encourage players to play Fire Elementalist (along with steam, which I'll get to another day) since there's a staggering 1/3 chance you'll gain a bias in fire with a mere 1/9 chance you'll gain a deficit. That is not very random to me.

In my effort to offer variety while still staying in line with the current existing dragons, I propose Shadow Draconian. It's as edgy as it sounds.

Shadow Draconians gain an instant Stealth++++ upon reaching Level 7, and are offered a small bonus to the Stealth skill (+1 over 0).At level 14, their affinity to the shadows increases their vision in these poorly lit dungeons, granting them +1 LOS (with all the pros and cons this offers). Using the spell Dragon Form, they are given a draining breath attack in addition to the usual Draconian modifiers, like rPois, their scale AC, ect.

EDIT :: At XL 14, Shadow Draconian gains 1 rank of Darkstalker, reducing their LoS by 1, and are able to gain more ranks of it via mutation (much like Draconians can large wings via mutation).
Last edited by Elitist on Sunday, 9th October 2016, 01:44, edited 1 time in total.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:12

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

It would be weird for shadows to increase LoS when spell and robe named "Shadows" both decrease LoS(also, increasing LoS is a very dubious benefit which has antisynergy with stealth builds).

Minus that, however, I am in favor of this if it is the start of a). removing draconian ghost drain breath(since now just a specific type could have draining breath, the others not changing upon death), and b). making draconian colors actually match dragon colors(make elec-flavored dracs blue like the dragon, as a first step).

Obviously I am still attached to my own mottled draconian reform idea, but I primarily just want the drac colors to match up with dragons so I'd be into this at any rate.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:35

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Shard1697 wrote:It would be weird for shadows to increase LoS when spell and robe named "Shadows" both decrease LoS(also, increasing LoS is a very dubious benefit which has antisynergy with stealth builds).

Minus that, however, I am in favor of this if it is the start of a). removing draconian ghost drain breath(since now just a specific type could have draining breath, the others not changing upon death), and b). making draconian colors actually match dragon colors(make elec-flavored dracs blue like the dragon, as a first step).

Obviously I am still attached to my own mottled draconian reform idea, but I primarily just want the drac colors to match up with dragons so I'd be into this at any rate.


I believe decreasing LoS is generally not a good idea unless you're able to do it on command, via evokable or spell, whereas increasing LoS instantly grants you a wealth of information one couldn't gain otherwise at a reasonable price.

I would very much so like Black Draconians to be blue, I agree. And I dislike how Yellow Draconians don't fit thematically with the Crawl dragons, but who cares about consistency between players and monsters, honestly /s. Black and red Draconians would also look like Shadow the Hedgehog, which is objectively good.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:40

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Increased LOS is 99% of times very very bad, while decreased LOS is 100% extremely good
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:49

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Having played many 'shadow affinity' demonspawn, I am quite convinced that decreased LoS is always a good thing on most builds(and having to adjust your gameplan based on what color you get is part of the point of Dr).

I guess overall I would like to see:
Elec draconians turn dark blue(like storm dragons)
Purple draconians turn light blue(like quicksilver dragons)
Mottled dragons/draconians become acidic
Yellow draconians replaced by shadow draconians(so no confusion with golden dragons, and acid is now taken by something else)

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nago
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:50

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

nago wrote:Increased LOS is 99% of times very very bad, while decreased LOS is 100% extremely good


Having more range is better than having less range if you're using a ranged weapon, I think.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 22:56

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Yeah draconians could use a revamp. Mottled, steam and acid draconians could all use replacements imo (to shadow, quicksilver/antimagic and swamp, imo)

Steam and mottled dragons should become drakes btw, seeing as how theyre considerably lower raw power than their cousins
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 23:02

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Purple/Green draconians are already quicksilver/swamp(purple can breath dispelling breath and has better than normal MR), purple just doesn't match up with actual color of quicksilver dragons(although quicksilver dragons themselves could just get a purple tint added)

ex: Image -> Image

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 23:08

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Shadow, pearl and iron draconians then.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 23:21

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Grey could definitely also become iron, yeah. I forgot about them for a sec.

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nago
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Saturday, 8th October 2016, 23:50

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Elitist wrote:I believe decreasing LoS is generally not a good idea unless you're able to do it on command, via evokable or spell, whereas increasing LoS instantly grants you a wealth of information one couldn't gain otherwise at a reasonable price.

Which information exactly? I guess you can see staircases 1 tile further, but that's still almost useless.

Spider Stomper

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Post Sunday, 9th October 2016, 01:04

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Elitist wrote:
nago wrote:Increased LOS is 99% of times very very bad, while decreased LOS is 100% extremely good


Having more range is better than having less range if you're using a ranged weapon, I think.


Vision in crawl is symmetrical. It is always better to see less, at least to the extent you can reduce vision in Crawl (theoretically you might rather have 2-3 tile vision range rather than 1 tile).

The only annoyance I ever have with seeing less is that getting the Darkstalker mutation for Demonspawn makes autoexplore significantly slower.

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 9th October 2016, 01:16

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Big LOS is better when things are only scary nearby. Small LOS is better when distant things are scary.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 9th October 2016, 01:45

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

Hurkyl wrote:Big LOS is better when things are only scary nearby. Small LOS is better when distant things are scary.
milski wrote:
Elitist wrote:
Having more range is better than having less range if you're using a ranged weapon, I think.


Vision in crawl is symmetrical. It is always better to see less, at least to the extent you can reduce vision in Crawl (theoretically you might rather have 2-3 tile vision range rather than 1 tile).

The only annoyance I ever have with seeing less is that getting the Darkstalker mutation for Demonspawn makes autoexplore significantly slower.


Hurkyl wrote:Big LOS is better when things are only scary nearby. Small LOS is better when distant things are scary.


Fair enough, I understand that I was wrong now. Goes to show what I know.

Topic changed to reflect this.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 9th October 2016, 02:23

Re: Draconian: Change Mottled to Shadow

LOS size also cannot be increased without hurting the interface, especially the 80x24 console interface.

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