Crawl arena downgrade

[Styar]

I had like a 1-2 year interrupt in crawling. i don't really good in main game, but I kinda liking to toss monsters on each other in my own special way in the arena. And now I see some downgrade in arena since my last game experience. The main thing is that many humanoid monsters like halflings and dwarves lost their unique weapon and armour sets. It is rather sad news. Another thing is continuous from elder versions of arena and still actuall: AI is broken. THe main problem is pathfinding, especially in "glasswall" levels. To often monsters locks on the enemy in front of them over the inpassable terrain and can't do just ONE step to melee another one. It is rather stupid. The second problem is stupid arena Ai. FAQ of arena tells us a story about more than average AI on the arena but it is false. Spellcasters behave stupid and rush for melee, many monsters don't use blink, thought in normal game they avoid melee, blinking fast or kiting the player (the last sentience is for great in game centaur ai and awfull arena centaur ai). I know, that arena is not top prioritet in game developing< but can't you bring back inventory kits for humanoids, repair it's AI or return normal in game one and/or made arena and it's monster kits mor open to "text-files editing moding" since it is hard and not very effective way to solve this promblems via in-build sintacsis for arena itn game client. Sincerely yours, ya old fun. I like to see monsters behaive unique, like in real game, I like to see "smart" monsters to be smarter than mindless ones, not only in opening doors, but in more sophisticated tactics.At least I would like them to replicate "main game" tactics. I'd like to see moral issues as in old good arena of the pst, when moral level, or immunity to panic was a critical factor in the brawl.Sorry for emotions and long post, maybe some fellow nerds will understand me.

[jwoodward48ss]

That's morale, not moral. Players never have moral problems. Even as the goblin cries, we cleave it like a pillowcase.

[duvessa]

Arena is a tool and an occasional amusement device, not a game mode. If you make monsters in Arena behave differently from monsters in regular games, you make Arena much less useful as a tool.

[Styar]

If you make monsters in Arena behave differently from monsters in regular games, you make Arena much less useful as a tool.

This is what I say. Monsters on the arena behave differently from the main game. They rarely if ever broken in their morale, act rather foolhardy and don't use attack patterns as in main game (the best example are centaurs, that like to rush in melee on the arena and don't use shoot and run tactics as in main game). It is proposed that arena monsters use better than average intelligense on the arena, but in reality it looks like lower than average, especially for intelligent monsters that prefer ranged combat in main game. Even Sigmund on the arena is much weaker foe for other NPC in a duels, even if it is death incarnate in the main game. Pathfinding is reoccuring problem too thought it is less a problem in the main game were player don't have a same problem (at least we hope he hadn't) but blossom up on the arena maps with complicated layout and/or glass walls or impassable terrain. There was a problems with correct funcion of traps but I don't test it yet with last version. At past constant crashes forced me to avoid creating trap-loaded maps for the arena.

[Sar]

Centaurs don't us hit and run tactics in the main game either. They either move closer to you or shoot, and it's random. They approach you differently if there are corners on the map, but arena has no corners (unless it does, I have no idea if you can make terrain there). Monsters don't have a morale meter either (animals used to flee at low HP a bunch of versions ago but that was mercifully removed).

[Shard1697]

Even Sigmund on the arena is much weaker foe for other NPC in a duels, even if it is death incarnate in the main game.

Sounds about right. Sigmund is only dangerous to the player because of how early he shows up.

[Shtopit]

If you want a fatter Sigmund experience, you can meet a pumped up version in the Ten Rune Challenge. I think he has Mystic Blast or something of that kind.

[Styar]

Centaurs don't us hit and run tactics in the main game either. They either move closer to you or shoot, and it's random. They approach you differently if there are corners on the map, but arena has no corners (unless it does, I have no idea if you can make terrain there). Monsters don't have a morale meter either (animals used to flee at low HP a bunch of versions ago but that was mercifully removed).

Oh, thanks, Now it seems clear. I have somewat moss-covered game expirience So changed behavior are forced by large open space of the arena levels?

[chequers]

There is no changed AI between the arena and the real game. The point of arena is to test the game -- it is the same as the normal game.

[neil]

There is no changed AI between the arena and the real game. The point of arena is to test the game -- it is the same as the normal game.

There was, however, a line in the documentation about a long-removed arena option.

  Code:

* no_force_ai: The monsters in the arena are somewhat smarter than they are
      than when they're facing the player. This parameter removes that
      extra intelligence.

When the option still existed, seven years ago (0.5), force_ai was the default, and made monsters in arena choose other monsters as foes, even from out of LOS. It was removed when AI changes made the hack less necessary, but apparently without it monsters would mill about without actually fighting.

[Styar]

A new two rooccuring problems with arena. Allied monsters don't use equipment which made arena somewhat harder to use as a testing tool. Yes, I know, that it is because of the main game problem when your allies start to pick up your loot. May be it is worth to made some arena switchable option for that case? The second problem - monsters (even on the "enemy" side) don't use blink or teleport self while fighting on the arena. The only one exception from this rule was draconian shifter (maybe due to their not "plain" blink spells).

[neil]

A new two rooccuring problems with arena. Allied monsters don't use equipment which made arena somewhat harder to use as a testing tool. Yes, I know, that it is because of the main game problem when your allies start to pick up your loot. May be it is worth to made some arena switchable option for that case?

This seems to work for me:

  Code:

./crawl -arena '10 goblin ; dagger ego:electrocution v 10 goblin ; dagger ego:draining'


It doesn't work for monsters that don't use equipment in the first place, though.

[Styar]

A new two rooccuring problems with arena. Allied monsters don't use equipment which made arena somewhat harder to use as a testing tool. Yes, I know, that it is because of the main game problem when your allies start to pick up your loot. May be it is worth to made some arena switchable option for that case?

This seems to work for me:

  Code:

./crawl -arena '10 goblin ; dagger ego:electrocution v 10 goblin ; dagger ego:draining'


It doesn't work for monsters that don't use equipment in the first place, though.

Oh, I am sorry, don't say it properly. "Allied" monsters dont PICK UP equipment. Certanly they can use what they have on the beginning.

[neil]

Oh, I am sorry, don't say it properly. "Allied" monsters dont PICK UP equipment. Certanly they can use what they have on the beginning.

Aha! Fixed in trunk, thanks!