"Bob" God of the Night


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 233

Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 20:58

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 02:39

"Bob" God of the Night

Ok not really Bob, but I can't think of a good name off the top of my head. This is a stealth/assassin god. Goal is to make a non-casting sneaky git viable.

Appreciates: Actions that would train stealth or stabbing. Delivering a killing blow with a stab.

Depreciates: Light and good. So I guess no corona or holy weapons. Not sure what else in crawl fits light and good that is not god based. Maybe fire magic?

Powers:
Decreases LOS as piety increases.
Stealth bonus as piety increases.
Hide in plain sight: All monster go from aware to wandering.
Things that go bump in the night: summons night themed monsters. (bats, shadows, ghosts....)

Wrath: ???

So what does everybody think?

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 447

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 22:10

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 02:53

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

I prefer https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... od:stealth

On your god, though, how smooth would hide in plain sight be? If it uses Invocations skill, how would you train for it? How does things that go bump in the night jive with stealth/stabbing? Note that simply sitting around trains stealth, which means constant piety gain, and I imagine sitting in front of a kobold or something would mean very fast piety gain. If you're going so far with your conduct to prohibit corona and holy weapons, you'd probably have to special-case a bunch of glowing things for that, which is kind of really gross. I'd also like to note that a plain stealth bonus is incredibly dull.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1533

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:52

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 04:08

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

I think there is a bit of an issue with enchanters being better assassins than assassins are, if assassin is defined as "stabber". See the other thread about Halflings and some ideas to tweak their stealth ability.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 04:16

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

Biggest problem I see: if you introduce a god that puts magic-less stabbers on par with magic using stabbers, what happens when some just combines the two? SpEn's are already one of the most viable builds.

Not that I think, as is, your Bob would do that. His powers seem a little underwhelming. Hm. Would the line of sight business mean He appreciates using the lantern of shadows? Seems a little gimmicky tying a god to one item, but I do like the idea of being encouraged to use the lantern. Maybe if He let you wield it in your shield hand? That would give you reduced LOS for sneaking, a hand free for stabbing, and shadows to go bump in your artificial lantern light/night. That's most Bob's suggested powers right there!
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1533

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:52

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 04:45

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

I guess HaBe / KoBe are the magic-less stabbers. They're good at stabbing, can't use magic, but have other powers to supplement the melee game.

Stabbing is so powerful that a character that could stab everything would be way too powerful.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 447

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 22:10

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 05:15

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

danr wrote:I think there is a bit of an issue with enchanters being better assassins than assassins are, if assassin is defined as "stabber". See the other thread about Halflings and some ideas to tweak their stealth ability.

"Assassin" isn't defined as "stabber"; assassins start with blowguns and throwing skill, so they can use special needles, which, with high throwing skill, can affect pretty much anything (e.g. I've seen it used to stab Cerebov). Sadly, Trog/Oka worship is pretty much required to get the needles.

goo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 61

Joined: Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:36

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 14:36

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

I know lots of people have had ideas like this in the past. If they do a stealth god, they should combine it with the ranged weapon god that people have also been wanting for a while. A hunter god that's all about stalking your prey and waiting until just the right moment to strike; it would make sense thematically as well as gameplay-wise. I know the devs prefer gods that aren't limited to just one playstyle, so this would probably be the best option.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 14:54

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

goo wrote:I know lots of people have had ideas like this in the past. If they do a stealth god, they should combine it with the ranged weapon god that people have also been wanting for a while. A hunter god that's all about stalking your prey and waiting until just the right moment to strike; it would make sense thematically as well as gameplay-wise. I know the devs prefer gods that aren't limited to just one playstyle, so this would probably be the best option.

All of this is true, although the need for a ranger god is a bit smaller since the addition of Fedhas. I think it is best if a god has a theme of his own (unrelated to playing styles) which will then be useful to some playing styles. This is what happened with Lugonu, Fedhas, Cheibriados, Ashenzari at least.

For this message the author dpeg has received thanks:
tromboneandrew

goo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 61

Joined: Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:36

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 15:28

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

dpeg wrote:
goo wrote:I know lots of people have had ideas like this in the past. If they do a stealth god, they should combine it with the ranged weapon god that people have also been wanting for a while. A hunter god that's all about stalking your prey and waiting until just the right moment to strike; it would make sense thematically as well as gameplay-wise. I know the devs prefer gods that aren't limited to just one playstyle, so this would probably be the best option.

All of this is true, although the need for a ranger god is a bit smaller since the addition of Fedhas. I think it is best if a god has a theme of his own (unrelated to playing styles) which will then be useful to some playing styles. This is what happened with Lugonu, Fedhas, Cheibriados, Ashenzari at least.


I was thinking (I'm sure I'm not the first person to come up with this idea) of a god who's theme is something related to the thrill of hunting dangerous prey. A god that an old british game hunter with a monocle going on safari to bag a new elephant head for his mantle would worship. This theme could lend itself to both ranged and stealthy playstyles.

goo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 61

Joined: Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:36

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 15:51

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

To expand on that idea, I thought of some passive abilities that this god could utilize that would fit the concept. (Probably not the first person to come up with some of these)

- A "poaching" passive. Increases the odds of a troll/dragon/etc dropping a hide. Maybe also gives a small amount of gold per kill. (Like 1 gold per HD maybe? Even that may end up being too much after a while though)

- Support for wearing hides. Wearing an animal hide around animal type enemies (not sentient ones like Orcs, Elves, etc) might give you a huge stealth boost. (A wolf in sheep's clothing if you will) Maybe also lower the stealth penalty from wearing dragon armour.

- A passive that increases the length of time before butchered meat in your inventory becomes rotten. You're a survivalist wild man able to live for great lengths of time in the wilderness without the comforts of civilization. You know how to live off the land.

- A higher tier ability (probably at 5 or 6 stars) that increases stabbing damage by a small amount and lets you stab with ranged weapons. You're a master of the hunt, and possess the ability to target your unaware prey's vitals for maximum damage. (Can you stab with ranged weapons already? I'm not entirely sure how the stabbing formula works, or if this would be too strong.)

EDIT: One more. A smite targetted fog/smoke cloud that burns a little piety and food. Basically the opposite of Fedhas sunshine.

goo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 61

Joined: Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:36

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 16:41

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

Sorry to triple post, but the "edit" option disappears after a few minutes it seems.

I was reading through the wiki about the different suggestions for the hunter and stealth gods. I think if you used some variation of the bounty hunting and blood tracking mechanic in the "bounty hunting god" section, mixed in with some of the abilities I suggested and all tied around the "thrill of the hunt" theme it could lead to a very interesting and fun god.

Bim

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 700

Joined: Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 15:51

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 18:25

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

I agree that a hunter/stealth god would be great. (Although would love to have separate gods).
I love the bounty hunting idea, but I don't think the gold mechanic is great in crawl as shops don't seem to be overly useful most of the time. On other times however, I've managed to find an antique shop, with loads of money and just buy everything.
Perhaps bounty hunting could go towards piety with random gifts of money or ammo/temporary blessings? I think the problem with combining a stealth and hunter god is that they're pretty much excusively different. You don't really get many stabbers that also use bows or bow chars. that stab. But I'd definitely welcome a more stealthy/huntery god!
2012 Winner of fewest proposed ideas implemented by devs.

goo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 61

Joined: Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:36

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 19:51

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

Yeah, a gift of gold probably wouldn't be the best. But I think a gift of some kind for tracking certain kills would be cool and thematic.

And ranged weapons and stealth are definitely not mutually exclusive imo. For example when I play halfling hunters I often have them train up stealth and stabbing in addition to their slings. And stealth can benefit a ranged user even if they aren't stabbing. Ranged weapons aren't very noisy if I recall, and I think a mechanic where you can silently "snipe" targets from afar before they realize what's happening would be fun. I think it would be cool if this proposed god allowed you to stab with ranged weapons, or if that's too powerful just give a bonus of some kind from attacking in ranged while in stealth.

Bim

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 700

Joined: Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 15:51

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 23:41

Re: "Bob" God of the Night

Yeah I've always liked the idea (After playing HOMM5) of being able to chose a certain type of enemy (undead, orc, creature) to have as a 'favoured' enemy, which you deal a bit more damage too. However, It'd need to be something you could only do once or you could change every time you go to a different branch. But I think it'd be great for a hunter type god.
The other thought I had for a passive ability was that it could change all chunks one level (poisonous becomes contaminated ect.) closer to being edible, which could benefit all classes (so its not too class specific) and also doesn't create a major unbalance as you still need to find the chunks in the first place.

Just some thoughts!
2012 Winner of fewest proposed ideas implemented by devs.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 447

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 22:10

Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 23:49

Re: "Bob" God of the Night


Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.