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Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:01by Quazifuji
Nevermind, you'd just appear on top of the rune when you escaped the Abyss. Ignore this post.I just saw this Reddit post where someone found the Glowing rune on top of a Zot trap.
Initially, this seems like a typical "that sucks, but it's not too bad, anyone who can get to a Pan rune can handle a Zot trap" sort of scenario, except there's an issue: Zot traps can cause banishment. Getting banished from a rune floor in Pan means never being able to get that rune. So in this scenario, there is a very small random chance that this character will never be able to get the Glowing rune, and the only thing they could possibly have done to prevent it would have been to learn Apportation before entering Pan.
Sure, the set of events required for this scenario to happen is extremely unlikely (don't learn apportation before entering Pan, Zot trap blocks access to a non-demonic Pan rune, and the Zot trap happens to trigger banishment when you step on it), but the possibility of it happening still seems extremely unfair. And I don't think anything of value is lost if this scenario were made impossible.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:05by VeryAngryFelid
If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:14by ontoclasm
VeryAngryFelid wrote:If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.
Luckily this is already the case and has been for years.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Sunday, 18th September 2016, 07:17by Quazifuji
ontoclasm wrote:VeryAngryFelid wrote:If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.
Luckily this is already the case and has been for years.
Your correct My bad. This post can be safely ignored then.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 17:39by and into
Can you still screw yourself out of a rune by sacrificing artifice with Ru? If so that should probably be changed, too. (Just change how Slime works when you kill TRJ so wall removal isn't needed.)
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 17:54by PleasingFungus
you have to sacrifice both artifice and earth magic, and even then people have managed to get in using deep troll earth mages and/or jorgrun
it's a pretty goofy case but it's hard to reach
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 18:07by ydeve
Can we remove this Nethack-like interaction please? It doesn't introduce any meaningful decisions. You *don't* lose access to the rune when saccing both Earth Magic and artifice, you just get to do something really tedious instead.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 18:16by PleasingFungus
yeah probably
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 19:28by Shtopit
Have the walls change into lava when TRJ dies. It makes the stuff inside visible, it keeps the jellies away, it can be solved in a plethora of ways (boots of flying, wings, blink (spell and scroll), cblink, golubria (?), levitation, other ways that surely exist but I can't think of right now) and is Ru proof (just leap in there).
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 19:30by Quazifuji
There's also the theoretically possible (even if it's ridiculously rare) case where you have not found a single source of wall destruction by the time you clear slime and your only choice is to scum Pan and Abyss until you do.
Overall, I really see no reason that getting the Slimy rune should require wall destruction, especially now that slimes no longer eat items you've seen so you don't have to worry about them stealing the loot before you get it.
Same for Coc 7 requiring flying, if that's still a thing
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 20:31by Seven Deadly Sins
Quazifuji wrote:There's also the theoretically possible (even if it's ridiculously rare) case where you have not found a single source of wall destruction by the time you clear slime and your only choice is to scum Pan and Abyss until you do.
Overall, I really see no reason that getting the Slimy rune should require wall destruction, especially now that slimes no longer eat items you've seen so you don't have to worry about them stealing the loot before you get it.
Same for Coc 7 requiring flying, if that's still a thing
It still is for some maps, which is pretty awful. There is an island chain map in Coc 7 that has islands with no hatches, so if you somehow run out of teleportation and flying, you can have a forced starvation situation there.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 21:23by Kate
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 21:32by Rast
Slime 6 FR: no walls, scatter the items all around the level instead of just the middle. Give Royal Jelly the special ability to pick up all runes and items he passes over, but he doesn't use them, and killing him makes them all drop unharmed.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Monday, 19th September 2016, 23:51by and into
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Wednesday, 21st September 2016, 15:44by Shtopit
Rast wrote:Slime 6 FR: no walls, scatter the items all around the level instead of just the middle. Give Royal Jelly the special ability to pick up all runes and items he passes over, but he doesn't use them, and killing him makes them all drop unharmed.
I think this is a bad idea, it means that you are forced to kill TRJ to get the rune if she passes over it. I would exclude the rune from this.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Wednesday, 21st September 2016, 22:35by Malevolent
Shtopit wrote:I think this is a bad idea, it means that you are forced to kill TRJ to get the rune
This is already the case for characters that can't cast Shatter (Shatter can take apart the unsoftened walls, right?). In fact, quite the opposite - Rast's proposal would
sometimes allow people to get the rune without killing TRJ, as opposed to the current situation.
Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes
Posted:
Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 00:58by jwoodward48ss
Issue: banishment. Not always done on purpose; using Banish would be stupid, using that executioner's axe of distortion Asshole Trog gave you isn't.