Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes


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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:01

Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Nevermind, you'd just appear on top of the rune when you escaped the Abyss. Ignore this post.

I just saw this Reddit post where someone found the Glowing rune on top of a Zot trap.

Initially, this seems like a typical "that sucks, but it's not too bad, anyone who can get to a Pan rune can handle a Zot trap" sort of scenario, except there's an issue: Zot traps can cause banishment. Getting banished from a rune floor in Pan means never being able to get that rune. So in this scenario, there is a very small random chance that this character will never be able to get the Glowing rune, and the only thing they could possibly have done to prevent it would have been to learn Apportation before entering Pan.

Sure, the set of events required for this scenario to happen is extremely unlikely (don't learn apportation before entering Pan, Zot trap blocks access to a non-demonic Pan rune, and the Zot trap happens to trigger banishment when you step on it), but the possibility of it happening still seems extremely unfair. And I don't think anything of value is lost if this scenario were made impossible.
Last edited by Quazifuji on Sunday, 18th September 2016, 07:17, edited 1 time in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:05

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.
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Post Sunday, 18th September 2016, 05:14

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

VeryAngryFelid wrote:If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.

Luckily this is already the case and has been for years.

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Post Sunday, 18th September 2016, 07:17

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

ontoclasm wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:If it is the case, then probably it is better to change banishment to return player to rune floor when escaping Abyss. Some monsters on the rune floor can have distortion weapon.

Luckily this is already the case and has been for years.


Your correct My bad. This post can be safely ignored then.

Barkeep

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 17:39

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Can you still screw yourself out of a rune by sacrificing artifice with Ru? If so that should probably be changed, too. (Just change how Slime works when you kill TRJ so wall removal isn't needed.)

Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 17:54

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

you have to sacrifice both artifice and earth magic, and even then people have managed to get in using deep troll earth mages and/or jorgrun

it's a pretty goofy case but it's hard to reach

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 18:07

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Can we remove this Nethack-like interaction please? It doesn't introduce any meaningful decisions. You *don't* lose access to the rune when saccing both Earth Magic and artifice, you just get to do something really tedious instead.

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 18:16

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

yeah probably

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 19:28

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Have the walls change into lava when TRJ dies. It makes the stuff inside visible, it keeps the jellies away, it can be solved in a plethora of ways (boots of flying, wings, blink (spell and scroll), cblink, golubria (?), levitation, other ways that surely exist but I can't think of right now) and is Ru proof (just leap in there).
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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 19:30

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

There's also the theoretically possible (even if it's ridiculously rare) case where you have not found a single source of wall destruction by the time you clear slime and your only choice is to scum Pan and Abyss until you do.

Overall, I really see no reason that getting the Slimy rune should require wall destruction, especially now that slimes no longer eat items you've seen so you don't have to worry about them stealing the loot before you get it.

Same for Coc 7 requiring flying, if that's still a thing

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Lair Larrikin

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 20:31

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Quazifuji wrote:There's also the theoretically possible (even if it's ridiculously rare) case where you have not found a single source of wall destruction by the time you clear slime and your only choice is to scum Pan and Abyss until you do.

Overall, I really see no reason that getting the Slimy rune should require wall destruction, especially now that slimes no longer eat items you've seen so you don't have to worry about them stealing the loot before you get it.

Same for Coc 7 requiring flying, if that's still a thing


It still is for some maps, which is pretty awful. There is an island chain map in Coc 7 that has islands with no hatches, so if you somehow run out of teleportation and flying, you can have a forced starvation situation there.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 21:23

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

PleasingFungus wrote:yeah probably

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9239046d4c2a

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 21:32

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Slime 6 FR: no walls, scatter the items all around the level instead of just the middle. Give Royal Jelly the special ability to pick up all runes and items he passes over, but he doesn't use them, and killing him makes them all drop unharmed.

Barkeep

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Post Monday, 19th September 2016, 23:51

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

MarvinPA wrote:
PleasingFungus wrote:yeah probably

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9239046d4c2a


Yessssss thank you
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 21st September 2016, 15:44

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Rast wrote:Slime 6 FR: no walls, scatter the items all around the level instead of just the middle. Give Royal Jelly the special ability to pick up all runes and items he passes over, but he doesn't use them, and killing him makes them all drop unharmed.

I think this is a bad idea, it means that you are forced to kill TRJ to get the rune if she passes over it. I would exclude the rune from this.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 21st September 2016, 22:35

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Shtopit wrote:I think this is a bad idea, it means that you are forced to kill TRJ to get the rune


This is already the case for characters that can't cast Shatter (Shatter can take apart the unsoftened walls, right?). In fact, quite the opposite - Rast's proposal would sometimes allow people to get the rune without killing TRJ, as opposed to the current situation.
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Post Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 00:58

Re: Prevent Zot Traps from Spawning on top of Pan Runes

Issue: banishment. Not always done on purpose; using Banish would be stupid, using that executioner's axe of distortion Asshole Trog gave you isn't.
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