Terrain: Chasm

[Regnix]

Just an idea I had...

We have lava and deep water as (mostly) uncrossable terrain, but not a simple barrier such as a chasm? I think it would add a bit of flavour, especially to vaults. The only difference from the other uncrossable terrain is that deep water and lava are both likely to contain enemies, the chasm would not (unless something was flying over it). It's simply a barrier that cannot be crossed without flight/levitation and would lead to instant death if those enchantments were to expire whilst over it.

Good/Bad/Pointless?

[jejorda2]

Other than salamanders, lava snakes, and lava orcs, who would find a chasm any different than lava? If the same glyph or tile were used to represent chasms and lava, why would anyone notice or need to know?

When can you cross lava but not a chasm, or when can you cross a chasm but not lava? How is dying in a chasm different from dying in lava? If they aren't different, why do we need both?

We already have lava, and there doesn't seem to be any gameplay difference between lava and chasms in your proposal.

So far, it sounds pointless.

[Rapigel]

Probably pointless with the current implementation of lava. However, if lava was changed so that the player took damage from radiant heat from standing next to, or worse, levitating over it, then chasms would have a use as barriers you could fly over without being crisped.

[Galefury]

Well, lava and blue lava are also nearly the same and mostly differ in flavor. Chasms would just be black or brown lava, nothing wrong with that. Also spiders could hide in them (clinging to the chasm walls). I see no point in adding chasms without vaults or a branch that take advantage of it. Also there are already shafts. It's hard to justify death from chasms in the dungeon when shafts can drop you three floors down without any damage. Having them in a branch would work though, and offer some nice flavor. A mountain with griffons and kenku and the like or a spider cavern could both work great.

[Regnix]

The chasm is similar to the current implementation of lava in everyway, except for the lack of lava snakes/salamanders etc. It's not so much about creating a gameplay difference as creating a flavour difference. Maybe an easily implementable one?

Flavour wise, I think it could add to the game, proving a useful terrain for an air elementalist themed level. And whilst characters may wonder why they can fall to their death in a chasm, whilst falling through a shaft with no penalty, they may also wonder why lava does not melt through to the floor below!....

[Bim]

I think this sounds like a great idea, both flavour and gameplay wise

To those saying 'but it's the same as lava, without salamanders!' - That's exactly the point. It'd be a gap with nothing hiding in it, and wouldn't need much work for an added flavour and game play interest. Granted, it's not the worlds biggest improvement/change, but it's different enough to be interesting.
I'd happily design the tiles for this if someone would implement it as I have some time this week away from work.

I've always liked the idea of a 'floating islands' style vault, with thin walkways between them, and I think this would fit great, whilst adding a slightly different aspect to game play. As mentioned, I think this would go GREAT in the vaults instead of water/lava, and it's always nice to be able to escape/attack enemies in different ways.

[KoboldLord]

A similar idea has been brought up in a couple places on the development wiki:

https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... h:mountain
https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... ting_rocks
https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... rain_types

As far as implementation, I don't think any of the devteam are currently working on it. Spider, Forest, and Dwarf seem to be getting more attention currently, and even those may be a long time in coming before they're promoted to proper branch status. But if someone wanted to volunteer to write a patch to include chasms or related terrain, I'm sure their effort would be welcomed.

[TwilightPhoenix]

To make chasms different from lava...

* Cling works on the chasm walls. So Spiders and the like could walk around along the edge over the chasm.

* Players with flight and controlled levitation can maybe use them as an escape hatch (or maybe even stairs). Clingers can only do it from the edge and only as an escape hatch.

* No damage when successfully scrambling

* Items thrown/dropped into a chasm would have a chance to appear in floors below, assuming floors exist below the one the player is currently on. So don't be surprised if you confuse a bunch of Orcs into falling into a chasm, go down the next floor, and find a pile of rotting orc corpses. Chances would depend on the item. For example, potions are highly likely to break. Scrolls are light and will just float down. Decks may get scattered. Plate mail may make a lot of noise when it hits below and degrade from falling damage. You may not find as many arrows down below as you shot/threw/dropped into the chasm.

[Timbermaw]

* Items thrown/dropped into a chasm would have a chance to appear in floors below, assuming floors exist below the one the player is currently on. So don't be surprised if you confuse a bunch of Orcs into falling into a chasm, go down the next floor, and find a pile of rotting orc corpses. Chances would depend on the item. For example, potions are highly likely to break. Scrolls are light and will just float down. Decks may get scattered. Plate mail may make a lot of noise when it hits below and degrade from falling damage. You may not find as many arrows down below as you shot/threw/dropped into the chasm.

This would be cool, but how about skipping all those specifics and make them behave just like regular "trap" chasms?

[galehar]

A similar idea has been brought up in a couple places on the development wiki:

https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... h:mountain
https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... ting_rocks
https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... rain_types

As far as implementation, I don't think any of the devteam are currently working on it. Spider, Forest, and Dwarf seem to be getting more attention currently, and even those may be a long time in coming before they're promoted to proper branch status. But if someone wanted to volunteer to write a patch to include chasms or related terrain, I'm sure their effort would be welcomed.

It would be interesting in one of this branch idea, or similarly themed vault or portal vault. Adding them just so they have are randomly generated in the dungeon doesn't provide much theme.

[Galefury]

Spike pits could be used in the dungeon instead of chasms. This would justify death from falling into them (opposed to shafts which don't kill you). In a mountain branch or similar chasms would work of course, but in the dungeon I just don't see it.

[galehar]

Spike pits could be used in the dungeon instead of chasms.

Spike pit could make a fun a different mechanical trap. And it's such a classical.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Erm, shouldn't be chasms completely lethal when you fall in them? How can you scramble out of a deadly chasm without any roots or rods sticking out of the walls?
Perhaps you might end up in a lower level or in the Abyss instead of successfully scrambling out of a chasm...

[mumra]

Edit: Misinterpreted some posts.

Anyway, for consideration: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:traps

[Bim]

Really like the idea of extending traps and doors, at the moment hardly anyone really trains it up other than letting it tick over.

I thought Chasm's would be nice from a flavour perspective, as well as letting an impassable (other than with lev) obstacle which doesn't have nasties in. I think that's enough to differentiate it, especially if we allow cling to let you edge round it and something like MyotherHedgeFox's idea of having it leave you in the abyss/ very far down the dungeon if you fell into it.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Erm, shouldn't be chasms completely lethal when you fall in them? How can you scramble out of a deadly chasm without any roots or rods sticking out of the walls?

I'd assume it'd just be grabbing the ledge fast enough before you fell to your death. And it'd make far more sense than scrambling out of lava before it incinerated you.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Erm, shouldn't be chasms completely lethal when you fall in them? How can you scramble out of a deadly chasm without any roots or rods sticking out of the walls?

I'd assume it'd just be grabbing the ledge fast enough before you fell to your death. And it'd make far more sense than scrambling out of lava before it incinerated you.

I agree to your lava comparison. But I guess a "shafty" scrambling-out would be interesting. For Xom or Lugonu, perhaps.

[brendan]

Spike pits could be used in the dungeon instead of chasms.

Spike pit could make a fun a different mechanical trap. And it's such a classical.

I am implementing this.