Remove level requirement for spell memorization


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Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 20th August 2016, 22:35

Remove level requirement for spell memorization

I don't see any useful purpose for requiring characters to get level N before memorizing a spell of level N. It only occasionally affects what you can really practically cast, and if it does it is because you intentionally specialized trying to do so, which ought to be rewarded. It doesn't have any obvious in-game rationale - almost nothing else is tied to level unless you get a notice that you have a new Ability. Mostly, it makes you forget to learn a handful of spells like Blink at the beginning because of the bureaucratic requirement, leading to avoidable stupid deaths that are not at all satisfying. The first fifteen minutes of a new character's life is not such a paradise on Crawl that they need this extra rule holding them back.

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Post Saturday, 20th August 2016, 23:44

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

Letting people cast conjure flame, swiftness, call canine familiar, blink, sticks to snakes, etc. etc. at XL1 is a pretty huge buff to book backgrounds.

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Post Saturday, 20th August 2016, 23:46

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

duvessa wrote:Letting people cast conjure flame, swiftness, call canine familiar, blink, sticks to snakes, etc. etc. at XL1 is a pretty huge buff to book backgrounds.


Is it an unreasonable one though? Most PC's are at XL2 or 3 by the time D:1 is finished.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 01:23

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

Counterproposal: Make level requirement more important, you need to be XL (spell level*2)-1 to memorize a spell of a given spell level
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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 01:36

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

Siegurt wrote:Counterproposal: Make level requirement more important, you need to be XL (spell level*2)-1 to memorize a spell of a given spell level


Why? How about changing melee in a similar way?
XL 2 for vorpal, XL 5 for venom, XL 8 for freezing, XL 11 for flaming, XL 14 for electro, XL 17 for speed, XL 20 for holy.
Or if you don't like changing scroll of brand weapon, here is another version.
XL 7 for base damage 9-11, XL 12 for base damage 12-14, XL 17 for base damage 15+.
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Dis Charger

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 02:37

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

This only really affects early early game regardless (both Siegurt's and Sandman25's proposals) as you aren't going to be using a level 5 at spell at level 5 (or 9) anyways without an extreme apt and some additional sense beyond that.

Level 2's and 3's being available at XL 1 is a major buff to some backgrounds, but it's ok...could do away with the need for some of the more useless level 1's...
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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 02:37

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

isn't anyone going to consider the effect this would have on gnollcrawl

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 05:15

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

duvessa wrote:Letting people cast conjure flame, swiftness, call canine familiar, blink, sticks to snakes, etc. etc. at XL1 is a pretty huge buff to book backgrounds.

But they still need spell slots, MP, and a decent success rate, all of which cost XP to get.

I doubt most characters will be able to use level 3 spells at XL1. Maaaybe single school spells, but that's just canine familiar, confuse, and tukima's dance. Of those only the dog would be OP for an xl1 character.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 06:21

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

...and portal projectile, and teleport other, and vampiric draining. Human mages start with level 3 dual-school spells at around 30% which is very usable.

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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 21st August 2016, 06:44

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

Tfw you want to hit the hobgoblin behind the kobold, but you have to kite to get to 1/3 mp to throw something at him.
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Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 15:54

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

So at level 1 you could cast vampiric draining once and use up all your mp, or at level 2 use it once, wait for another MP to regen, then use it again?

Even when you're level 2 you generally don't use your level 2 spells all that much. This wouldn't really alter early game balance much.

Alternatively, let characters memorize anything they have the slots for, and prevent them from casting it until they are at the level required. That might already be in the game, in fact. What happens if a felid dies and drops down a level, and has a memorized spell that's higher level than they are? Can this actually happen?

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 23:45

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

duvessa wrote:Letting people cast conjure flame, swiftness, call canine familiar, blink, sticks to snakes, etc. etc. at XL1 is a pretty huge buff to book backgrounds.


XL1 is a pretty frail part of the game for casters imo. Low mp.. No good weapon.. No evocables or might potion or berserk.. And using any of those spells u listed is a gamble cause of miscast

So this is not a game breaking change.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 23rd August 2016, 09:51

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

Instead of this, perhaps the game could remind the player when a spell can be memorised from a carried book. I.e. when spell slots or character levels allow it.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 24th August 2016, 17:32

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

I like this idea. Besides buffing book backgrounds (which is fine with me) this change would also introduce the slight skilling benefit of letting you immediately train the spell schools you want starting at XL1, rather than waiting until you are the proper XL to memorize the spell and then starting to train the spell schools.

One downside of this change is that it would make the game less newbie-friendly. The current system helps prevent beginning players from making severe spell training blunders, such as blowing all their spell slots on a level 5 spell which they can't cast reliably. However, since this mistake would probably result in a few hilarious deaths, I'm in favor of letting it happen.
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Post Wednesday, 24th August 2016, 19:52

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

I personally like it. It seems like it makes things a bit simpler.
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Post Wednesday, 24th August 2016, 20:23

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

elmdor wrote:One downside of this change is that it would make the game less newbie-friendly. The current system helps prevent beginning players from making severe spell training blunders, such as blowing all their spell slots on a level 5 spell which they can't cast reliably. However, since this mistake would probably result in a few hilarious deaths, I'm in favor of letting it happen.


This is only true before they hit XL5, at which point they're free to memorize a level 5 spell they can't possibly cast.

Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 23:05

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

I think any spell school with a relevant spell within a carried book should be trainable. I also think that any skill with skill points in it should be trainable.
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Dis Charger

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Post Sunday, 28th August 2016, 06:32

Re: Remove level requirement for spell memorization

You know after thinking about it I don't think it'd change that much, unless it's --Wz or you have a great Spellcasting Apt. you start with 2 Spellcasting or less at level 1. So up to 5 Spell-levels, with a level 1 already memorized and...(unless you have a good MP apt (IE DE or Te), you don't have enough MP to cast a level 3 more than once...using all your MP on a single attempt (30% fail) at a level 3 on D:1 is a fairly transparently bad decision.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

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