Large Abominations Ought Not Look Like Tormentors

[MainiacJoe]

There are a few of the large abomination tiles in 18.1 that look a lot like tormentors under superficial examination. I know this because I got a very rude surprise in the Abyss when one of the handful of "large abominations" I was facing started tormenting me! I think the expanded tileset for abominations is a good ideas, but I'd like to suggest that tiles with lots of spindly arms be retired. Tormentors are not tough on their own, but as part of a group they can change the entire dynamic of the fight and as such ought to be a quite distinctive tile. In the Abyss currently, IMO they are not.

[dowan]

Yeah, I've fallen victim to this confusion as well.

[CanOfWorms]

here are the current large abomination tiles:


can you indicate which abominations look like the tormentor tile so that they can be edited/removed (which currently looks like this):


(rip using the pentagram to highlight demons)

[bcadren]

I feel like the problem is that the tormentor's appearance isn't that defined more than the large abomination tiles being bad.

[Airwolf]

I don't know what you're talking about: pink 2's look nothing like orange X's. Maybe it's time for glasses.

[Sprucery]

can you indicate which abominations look like the tormentor tile so that they can be edited/removed (which currently looks like this):

I'd say the problem is that there are many abomination tiles and nobody remembers them all and the tormentor looks like it might well be a part of that bunch.

It's kind of like a combination of the second one from the first row (shape) and the third one from the second row (colour) imo.

[Sar]

My (small) problem with the new aboms is that the tiles are kinda dark and the places where you meet them (Abyss, Pan, Hells) often have pretty dark floor tiles as well.

[roctavian]

I recently submitted a tormentor tile on Mantis which is bright pink/purplish (this is to differentiate it from a skinner but still yellow Cacodemon tile that I've made) and I think it should be more recognizable this way -- as well as consistent across tiles & console. I think these abomination tiles are great, but I think there's only multiple tiles for them because multiple people submitted tiles in the past, and they all went in? Someone went through great lengths to preserve that green/yellow/red gumdrop abomination for quite a long time...

[Sandman25]

Can we have just a single tile for all large abominations?

Spoiler: show

Alternatively, let's add 9 more tiles for every monster which is currently in the game for consistency.

[Sar]

Aboms have random speed etc., so it kinda makes sense for them to look differently.

[Sprucery]

FR: randomly generated tiles for abominations

[Sandman25]

Aboms have random speed etc., so it kinda makes sense for them to look differently.

Why? Many monsters have several spell sets, all monsters have randomized HP, many intelligent monsters have different equipment (armour, weapon, jewelry, items, potions, scrolls), what is so special about speed? I imagine an unspoiled player might waste some time trying to see relation between abomination tile and speed etc. when it does not exist (I believe).

[Sandman25]

FR: randomly generated tiles for abominations

Only if it applies to console also . It already takes more time to differentiate all those orcs and elves in tiles than in console (I believe).

[CanOfWorms]

Large abominations have random colours in consoles.

Edit: nevermind I was thinking of something else

[MainiacJoe]

Thanks CanOfWorms for finding the tiles, I didn't know how to find them. I don't recall exactly, but I'm confident it was the lower row middle because of similar color.

[Brannock]

here are the current large abomination tiles:


can you indicate which abominations look like the tormentor tile so that they can be edited/removed (which currently looks like this):


(rip using the pentagram to highlight demons)

4th from left in top row has a very similar silhouette.

Frankly I think the problem is that the tormentor tile is very outdated.

I recently submitted a tormentor tile on Mantis which is bright pink/purplish (this is to differentiate it from a skinner but still yellow Cacodemon tile that I've made) and I think it should be more recognizable this way -- as well as consistent across tiles & console. I think these abomination tiles are great, but I think there's only multiple tiles for them because multiple people submitted tiles in the past, and they all went in? Someone went through great lengths to preserve that green/yellow/red gumdrop abomination for quite a long time...

On far left?

The recolor is good but the silhouette and pose could use a little bit of editing, IMO.

BTW I love your new Executioner tile.

[CanOfWorms]

If it's just the colour that leads to confusion then they can be recoloured (or roctavian's tormentor recolour can be added???)

Or I guess tormentors can get a new tile too

[yesno]

new tormentor tile looks great but fwiw i'd hate to see the old fatty fat cacodemon tile gone

[goodcoolguy]

Hm, demons are pretty abstract kinds of things. You could have a lot more mutually distinct tiles by getting away from the generic devil theme.

[ololoev]

4th in the second row looks like tzitzimitzzlzllll. I always become scared when I see this kind of abomination in abyss.

[roctavian]

I like the old cacodemon tile as well. It's very recognizable. I think the new one remains distinct and better fits the aesthetic of other crawl tiles. It's been a slow process over the years, but I think most new tiles in crawl have a particular visual language and I think it's getting more clear all the time.

I like the first abomination in the second row best -- in terms of being a distinct and quickly readable tile that is unlike other tiles in the game with its shape and color -- if we had to choose just one.

[Shard1697]

BTW I love your new Executioner tile.

Where's this at? I'd like to see it.

[MainiacJoe]

If it's just the colour that leads to confusion then they can be recoloured (or roctavian's tormentor recolour can be added???)

Or I guess tormentors can get a new tile too

I suspect that some players cue more off of color like myself, while others will cue off of shape.

[Sar]

@Shard1697: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9951

[tach3]

I only play the console version. But have you thought about, to to make all tiles grayscale. I think the many colours are confusing. And when every monster group has its colour it is easier recognize.(And perhaps background shows health, and the unique ones in full colour)

[Arrhythmia]

I only play the console version. But have you thought about, to to make all tiles grayscale. I think the many colours are confusing. And when every monster group has its colour it is easier recognize.(And perhaps background shows health, and the unique ones in full colour)

It'd be cool, but it would be so different from what crawl currently does that it would definitely need to be its own separate tileset.