Decks as a Nem ability + bring back the coolcards

[infinitevox]

Preface:
I remember reading somewhere that the devs were discussing still being able to find the occasional deck(s) in Ziggs? I'm more than okay with this, as I have always enjoyed cards/decks as part of the game. So if that is the case, please do make a new category for decks, and ignore the rest of my post :p

Otherwise:
At this point in trunk, unless there was a compelling reason not to, could we not just completely remove decks as items now?
It would take reworking the invokable aspects & UI for Nemlex a little bit more but the end result would be a very simplified inventory, less tediousness (imo), and a more streamlined Nemlex in general.

Changes: I haven't been keeping up with all the changes in Trunk, so please keep that in mind if I'm suggesting something that's already been done or discussed
- Nemlex no longer gifts decks
+ Piety does not decay - Penance could be changed to give failure % and miscast effects when using evocables so that abandoning still has repercussions, otherwise see below*
+ All deck types are immediately available for invoking upon worship - This would also help balancing decks by giving hard numbers on which is used most often when all decks are available
+ The top card for each deck type is always shown - "Stack Five" would show/list the next 5 cards in the "a" screen
# Stack Five, piety cost should probably be increased to balance "unlimited" decks
+ Rarity of the deck is now determined by Piety - Could also scrap the rarity system and base deck power directly off of Invo/Piety/Combo to require more skill investment

Piety (0-2) = Plain
Piety (3-4) = Ornate
Piety (5-6) = Legendary

+ "Shuffle", costs: same as "Triple Draw", is available at (***...); Removes all current known info about the selected deck and "shuffles" the cards, obviously gives a new top card - If "Stack Five" has been used, that info is gone and only the top card is now shown, which would also re-allow use of "Deal Four" for that deck

Now, instead of having XX assorted decks of varying rarity in your inventory to haul around, the "a" screen could look something like:
Invoke:

a - Deck of Battle (the Blade)
b - Deck of Destruction (the Hammer)
c - Deck of Escape (the Shaft, the Tomb, the Alchemist, Damnation, the Alchemist)
d - Deck of Summoning (The Ranger)
e - Shuffle
f - Triple Draw
g - Deal Four
h - Stack Five

*I also think it would be somewhat interesting if Nemlex were a god that didn't care about abandonment. By removing cards as items, you don't have to worry about someone scumming a bunch of decks and then leaving with a bunch of loot, either. This would also give Nemlex an interesting niche in the pantheon, and encourage people to play them more.
Kind of like how the dealer at a Black Jack table doesn't care who is playing as long as they have chips (ie, piety), and when you're done playing, you leave the cards at the table.
The only other change I would make, if Nemlex no longer cared about abandonment (and the Deck of Changes is still a thing), would be to revert any Nemlex deck given mutations or changes (from the Helix card for example) upon abandonment.

[vergil]

Sounds really good to me. Except knowing what card it is, before invoking. Maybe adding another ability to identify, which card is in the deck, is a good idea.
AFAIK, you can't find any decks laying around anymore in trunk.
And it goes like this:

  Code:

* Nemelex Xobeh's abilities now use invocations, not evocations.
* Nemelex Xobeh now gifts decks of escape, destruction & summoning.
* Removed:
  - All decks, except for gifts from Nemelex Xobeh.
  - Alchemist, Banshee, Blade, Crusade, Dowsing, Exile, Feast, Focus,
    Fortitude, Hammer, Helix, Helm, Mercenary, Potion, Repulsiveness, Shadow,
    Solitude, Swap, Water, Venom, and Xom cards.


[infinitevox]

Thanks for the trunk update blurb! They must have decided against putting random decks into Ziggs or vaults.

Assuming my suggestions were implenented:
Decks would no longer be an Item, so you couldn't use a scroll of ID on them... Leading to my suggestion that the top card always be revealed.
An ability that did the same would work... I just wonder if it would create unnecessary tedium or be worth the effort? (Or "fiddlyness" as some of the other tavern folks are fond of saying.)

I think the only reason IDing decks is a thing is because they were "magic" evokable inventory items, like magic wands with charges, and would deviate in both quality and quantity of charges/cards. You see a random wand/deck on the ground, you don't know anything about it until you magically identify it - Makes sense.

Now though, decks are a "divine" evokable inventory item given as a gift from a god. It would make sense then that a god would inform worshipers as to the nature of the divine assistance they're requesting, right?

Going with my suggestion to remove them as inventory items then furthers the current changes, and turns them into "divine" invokable abilities. It also further reinforces the "is now a god ability" and not "an item that interacts with a god" idea that the Nemlex trunk updates have changed. The hold-over idea of decks as items are where the attachment to requiring a consumable to ID them comes from, and with them no longer being items, I don't see a reason to keep that same mentality.
Which I think would then make even more sense to know what the next immediate affect is going to be. Knowledge past that is additional, and would require a separate request, with a cost.

I wouldn't be upset if it did require an additional ability to see what the top card is though, I just don't think it would affect any kind of balance issues and so wouldn't be necessary.

[vergil]

Thing is, people could just abuse that. "I don't like this card, I'll just invoke it". Since the decks are infinite, and the piety cost for invoking one card won't be too high. That's why I think you shouldn't know what card it is, unless apropriate ability is used. Either stacking or something like "Against the Gamble: Identifies which card is on top of the deck. Costs: more than invoking a card."

[jwoodward48ss]

Since decks effectively do not exist outside of ^Nems, why not make decks into god abilities?

(moving the discussion here from "make decks a new category")

[archaeo]

I've gone ahead and split the discussions. Please remember that you can always use the report button to get a mod's attention if you think a thread needs to be split or you'd like to take a tangential conversation elsewhere on the Tavern.

For what it's worth, I think decks are stupid; if we move to "virtual" cards, which I think is the obvious solution to Nemelex's frustrating inventory management minigame, they should just form a single deck and Nem should provide a suite of tools to manipulate said deck. Infinitevox's proposal merely moves the inventory management to the (a)bilities screen, and it's not any more fun there even if it frees up a dozen inventory slots.