replace health bar

[spikeson]

1st thing 1st, sorry for the bad English.
Now I don't know if I'm the first one to ask about it, but I really think other than the PC, the monster's health bar should only be a colour indicator, not a meter. ie. we won't deplete the monster health bar, only let the colour changes toward red as monster's health get lower. What do you think?

[Sar]

Why?

[spikeson]

idk, just thought it would be more interesting that way. )

[Shard1697]

Why?

^

It's the same info, just less clear...

[Arrhythmia]

I don't actually think it's that bad of an idea. There's been more than a few times I've thought the enemy is fully alive because I couldn't see his health bar, but then notice that he's nearly dead.

Also, your English is fine

[ydeve]

This is how it works on console.

[Shard1697]

If the issue is the bar getting small enough that some people don't notice it, it could be an rcfile option.

[dowan]

It'd be nice as an RC option at the least. But maybe just a specific fix for the scenario Arrhy is talking about would make sense. That tiny sliver might just be too small when the monster is near death, because I make the same mistake he mentioned all the time.

[Sprucery]

Clearly the correct solution is to grant the player a gimme: when a monster's health bar is reduced to a tiny sliver, the monster drops dead.

  Code:

A voice booms out: That's a gimme!

[Magipi]

The topic in a nutshell:

Spikeson: <suggestion>
Sar: Why?
Spikeson: idk

[Shtopit]

I am against the suggestion because of daltonism.

[and into]

Yes, OP didn't meet the guidelines of GDD, buuuut then there's this:

I don't actually think it's that bad of an idea. There's been more than a few times I've thought the enemy is fully alive because I couldn't see his health bar, but then notice that he's nearly dead.

How often do people have this problem? It has occurred to me a few times. When the HP bar gets low, it can be difficult to see.

I don't think that what the OP suggests would be an improvement, but perhaps some additional on-screen indicator of when an enemy is "near death" could help? Or would it only clutter things up worse?

[dowan]

Well if that final HP bar image was just changed a little it would work I think. Just the colors probably isn't that bad of an idea either honestly.

[Shtopit]

Just add to the bar a fixed colour (blue, for example, or white) background, with the bar slowly leaving room for it.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

ideas for improving the health bar:

• don't just remove chunks of the HP bar. Paint them red instead, and leave the remaining HP green. Just like the player.
• there are 5 states of woundedness but the "almost dead" sliver is noticeably smaller than 20% of a tile's width. Make the 5 health bars be 6, 12, 18, 24, 30 pixels across. (Crawl's tiles are 32x32.)
• seperate the health bar into several bricks of equal size, so that instead shortening the long bar, you remove bricks
• reduce states of woundedness to 4: 1-24, 25-49, 50-74, 75-99. (displaying 1/2 health should be closer to full health than to 0 HP, because otherwise, regen following torment would often make the health bar bob up right after halving)
• combo: 4 HP bars per monster, which turn red 1 by 1, each 6 pixels wide, with 2 pixels between each pair of bars, which is a big bar 6+2+6+2+6+2+6=30 pixels long.

oshit I forgot the core tenet of my design philosophy ok nevermind just REMOVE HEALTH BAR

[genericpseudonym]

Yes, OP didn't meet the guidelines of GDD, buuuut then there's this:

I don't actually think it's that bad of an idea. There's been more than a few times I've thought the enemy is fully alive because I couldn't see his health bar, but then notice that he's nearly dead.

How often do people have this problem? It has occurred to me a few times. When the HP bar gets low, it can be difficult to see.

I don't think that what the OP suggests would be an improvement, but perhaps some additional on-screen indicator of when an enemy is "near death" could help? Or would it only clutter things up worse?

Just make the "depleted" section of the health bar a fixed color instead of having it be transparent.

[Haelyn]

oshit I forgot the core tenet of my design philosophy ok nevermind just REMOVE HEALTH BAR

X3

The zombies and skeletons were right all along.

[jwoodward48ss]

What "core tenet"? You mean 'REMOVE IT ALL'?

[PleasingFungus]

The current health bar doesn't actually turn (fully) transparent. It just turns black, which is very difficult to see in most areas.

Compare. Current situation:



And with (off-)white instead of black:

[ontoclasm]

there are 5 states of woundedness but the "almost dead" sliver is noticeably smaller than 20% of a tile's width. Make the 5 health bars be 6,

Actually, the red chunk is already 6 pixels long, but thanks for not checking.

e: I would of course be willing to change the background, but PF's example with white backgrounds looks distinctly less readable to me, not more.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Ah, you're right. It's been that way since... 0.16! Your work?
it's a little inconsistent, though, that the 'almost dead' indicator rounds health up (1-20% shows ~1/5 the bar), while the 'lightly wounded' indicator rounds health down (81-99% shows ~4/5 of the full bar), while the other indicators compromise, so to speak. Could make the 'lightly wounded' indicator a 100% green health bar.

More mock-ups!

[Arrhythmia]

Ah, you're right. It's been that way since... 0.16! Your work?
it's a little inconsistent, though, that the 'almost dead' indicator rounds health up (1-20% shows ~1/5 the bar), while the 'lightly wounded' indicator rounds health down (81-99% shows ~4/5 of the full bar), while the other indicators compromise, so to speak. Could make the 'lightly wounded' indicator a 100% green health bar.

More mock-ups!

I really like second from the right.

[tedric]

ugh but then newbs will keep asking why all enemies have only 4 hp

(jk i actually like it, though i suspect the unbroken red/green one next to it may actually be better since it mirrors the player's bar)

[HardboiledGargoyle]

However, the player's HP display is 5-6 times more exact, so they can't mirror each other all that well in the first place.

I really like second from the right.

that's my "combo" idea!

[dowan]

I like second from the right too, although shouldn't it be 5 segments? Unless almost dead would be 4 red bars.

[Shtopit]

As I said, I am against green-red combos because they aren't visible to everyone (like, 8% of men would see them wrong or not perceive the difference at all). If you really want to use a red-green scheme, make sure the red and the green have a strong difference in brightness. This isn't much of an issue with the player bar because there are numbers to be seen, but with monsters it would be different.

[Hurkyl]

As I said, I am against green-red combos because they aren't visible to everyone (like, 8% of men would see them wrong or not perceive the difference at all). If you really want to use a red-green scheme, make sure the red and the green have a strong difference in brightness. This isn't much of an issue with the player bar because there are numbers to be seen, but with monsters it would be different.

Or do like stoplights do and mix in other colors or maybe even shape the bars differently.

[dowan]

As I said, I am against green-red combos because they aren't visible to everyone (like, 8% of men would see them wrong or not perceive the difference at all). If you really want to use a red-green scheme, make sure the red and the green have a strong difference in brightness. This isn't much of an issue with the player bar because there are numbers to be seen, but with monsters it would be different.

Very good point. A strong contrast difference would be important, and thick yellow outlines between the red and green sections would probably help as well.

[genericpseudonym]

As I said, I am against green-red combos because they aren't visible to everyone (like, 8% of men would see them wrong or not perceive the difference at all). If you really want to use a red-green scheme, make sure the red and the green have a strong difference in brightness. This isn't much of an issue with the player bar because there are numbers to be seen, but with monsters it would be different.

Or add the option to customize the colors via rc settings.

[Quazifuji]

I like the segmented option too. One thing tat I haven't seen brought up in this thread (maybe I missed it if it was, I just skimmed) is that the current healthbar can feel somewhat misleading to new players. At the very least, when I started, I was completely unaware that the health bar only had four states of "woundedness" and assumed it was an accurate representation of the health the enemy had left. This mislead me about how much damage enemies were taking, since I assumed that any time the enemy's healthbar didn't change, it meant I had done no damage.

So I'm absolutely in favor of an enemy healthbar rework that makes it clear it's only an approximation of their remaining health. Color changes or the four segment bar could both do this.

[Arrhythmia]

As I said, I am against green-red combos because they aren't visible to everyone (like, 8% of men would see them wrong or not perceive the difference at all). If you really want to use a red-green scheme, make sure the red and the green have a strong difference in brightness. This isn't much of an issue with the player bar because there are numbers to be seen, but with monsters it would be different.

How about this? tried to texture the red sections, though could probably use a different pattern.

[Shard1697]

I have a smaller than average screen and I honestly couldn't see how it was textured until I got close to it. But that's probably an edge case.

[Arrhythmia]

I have a smaller than average screen and I honestly couldn't see how it was textured until I got close to it. But that's probably an edge case.

Some more mockups, are either of these better?

[Shard1697]

Yeah. Especially the first, but the pattern's considerably more readable on both.

[CanOfWorms]

it'll be better if you made the bar different heights, e.g.

[PleasingFungus]

now that's a lair entrance