Keep eating? Y/N


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 9th July 2016, 16:59

Keep eating? Y/N

Holy crap this is annoying.

Look, if you aren't going to remove food, at least make every food item and chunk take one turn to eat.

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Post Saturday, 9th July 2016, 20:18

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

yeah but say it nicer to demonstrate your gratitude for dungeon crawl stone soup

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Post Saturday, 9th July 2016, 23:54

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Honestly, I don't get it.

I don't get the idea that food must be removed. Food is meaningful for giving different play to some races and some classes, and spell hunger also is a factor. It is one of the things you have to make long term planning about. It is one of the few strategic factors.

I don't get the idea that someone expressed in another thread that, since the devs have taken steps to make food consumption more automatic, removing command clutter, food is now less significant in gameplay and should be removed. Food is just, for the player, more quickly usable and less tiresome to keep track of. It actually makes food better: it means that, while trolls, spriggans, vampires, ghouls and so on keep having to keep track of it, other races can be played more fluidly while seamlessly using the mechanic.

And I don't get the idea that food consumption should be equalled on a turn perspective. Chunks have the least quality and are only temporary, but are plentiful: 30 auts, can be eaten after battles. Some foods aren't too filling, but are permanent and a quick fix if you need to cast or use abilities: 10 auts. Some foods are permanent and very nutritious, but take 30 auts: use these in quiet moments, if you have no chunks. Each kind of food has its uses.

So, would someone please enlighten me? And what would you place instead of food?
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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 00:17

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

#FoodWasNeverGreat

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 00:30

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Shtopit wrote:It is one of the things you have to make long term planning about.
I have literally never made a long term decision about food. I have never, ever ran out of food. Not as a spriggan, not as a spellcaster, not as a gozag worshipper who doesn't buy food shops.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 01:01

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Shard1697 wrote:I have literally never made a long term decision about food. I have never, ever ran out of food. Not as a spriggan, not as a spellcaster, not as a gozag worshipper who doesn't buy food shops.


Well, what about http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Shard1697/m ... 201308.txt with just 3 bread rations? Was the low food a reason why you didn't get more runes? Should have been easy with Glaciate and almost perfect resists.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 01:17

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Nah, that was my first blasty-caster type victory and I didn't wanna do extended. FWIW I consider slime/abyss/vaults pretty equatable in terms of difficulty as pre-extended areas, so once I've gotten one if I'm enjoying the game I may just go into the others... but I rarely want to do tomb/pan/hell outside of tournaments.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 01:58

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

I have run out of food multiple times on the 100+ characters I've played. A memorable one was a TrCK of Xom with 14 runes, I kept casting level 6 spells and exploring Tar because it always has some cool loot, so I ended up eating all my food. Wanted to learn Necromutation but didn't make it to my stash and died. Also once or twice I died to starvation because I wasn't paying attention and skipped through the "You are starving" message. I also remember acquiring food on some characters, I think some Demonspawn caster? Not counting Fedhas chars, of course. Tomb, for example, eats a lot of food. But I'm kind of a bad/dumb player.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 02:52

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

I have played more Crawl than I wish to admit, frankly.

Once I died as a spriggan, technically from an enemy (cornered by centaur pack iirc) but really because I was out of food and had to explore/dive recklessly. This was before a food vault was guaranteed to spawn relatively early in the dungeon.

Once I ascended a demonspawn (four runes I think? maybe five) that was down to its last ration upon exiting the dungeon.

In both cases I had some very, very weird luck with permafood drops and no food shops generated. That is the sum of my experiences with games where hunger actually had an impact commensurate with the amount of attention, in-game turns, and in-real-life time that the hunger mini-game demands throughout Crawl. I probably would have had more issues with starvation back when I was a noob*, but I was way too busy dying to things like orc wizards, centaurs, and Sigmund.

Lack of food is very, very rarely a concern.


*Note: The existence of hunger/food is extremely non-friendly to new players, in addition to its other problems.

Shtopit wrote:So, would someone please enlighten me?


Let's pretend someone posted a proposal on GDD for a new enemy. This proposed enemy would be extremely common and generate in all areas of the game. It is permanently invisible even if you have "See Invisible" property equipped. When you enter LOS of this enemy, it immediately self-destructs, removing itself from the game without any message. Just before poofing away, however, the nasty little bastard gives you an impossible-to-resist status ailment, called "Must skip a few turns." Being afflicted with this status bestows upon the player the ability, "Skip a Few Turns." At any point in the next few hundred turns, the player must use the ability, "Skip a Few Turns," or else the player dies. The ability "Skip a Few Turns" takes a few uninterrupted turns in order to complete.

Do you think this new proposed enemy is good for Dungeon Crawl? Do you think it makes the game more fun or challenging? Do you think it fits the stated design objectives of DCSS?

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 03:34

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

yesno wrote:yeah but say it nicer to demonstrate your gratitude for dungeon crawl stone soup

for heaven's sake, being nice isn't about "demonstrating your gratitude", it's about having an environment that's fun to post & discuss things in. it's not fun to interact with people set to 'maximum abrasive' 24/7.

and into wrote:Let's pretend someone posted a proposal on GDD for a new enemy. This proposed enemy would be extremely common and generate in all areas of the game. It is permanently invisible even if you have "See Invisible" property equipped. When you enter LOS of this enemy, it immediately self-destructs, removing itself from the game without any message. Just before poofing away, however, the nasty little bastard gives you an impossible-to-resist status ailment, called "Must skip a few turns." Being afflicted with this status bestows upon the player the ability, "Skip a Few Turns." At any point in the next few hundred turns, the player must use the ability, "Skip a Few Turns," or else the player dies. The ability "Skip a Few Turns" takes a few uninterrupted turns in order to complete.

Do you think this new proposed enemy is good for Dungeon Crawl? Do you think it makes the game more fun or challenging? Do you think it fits the stated design objectives of DCSS?

that is a pretty tortured metaphor, i think.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 03:48

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Played around 5000 games. Ran out of food exactly once, as a naga which wielded a cursed club on d:1 back when that prevented you from butchering corpses.

Barkeep

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 04:04

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

PleasingFungus wrote:that is a pretty tortured metaphor, i think.


It is a pretty tortured feature in the game!

In order to craft an analogy that fully applies, after all, one would have to imagine that susceptibility to the skip-a-few-turns imp varies based on species, skill choices, use of magic/rods, etc.

The analogy breaks down completely in cases where food shortage really matters (suddenly hunger status is not similar to a status that makes you skip a few turns within a generous time frame). However, as several posters have pointed out, it is extremely rare for food shortage to be an issue, and the game has changed over time such that food shortage is even rarer.

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Barkeep

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 04:06

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

Okay, here is the more apt analogy:

Hunger/food is like victory dancing.

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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 06:02

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

for heaven's sake, being nice isn't about "demonstrating your gratitude", it's about having an environment that's fun to post & discuss things in. it's not fun to interact with people set to 'maximum abrasive' 24/7.


:O
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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 06:13

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

being nice is about having an environment that's fun to post & discuss things in. it's not fun to interact with people set to 'maximum abrasive' 24/7.


Speak for yourself.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 06:19

Re: Keep eating? Y/N

So uh, how about that original topic post that was about making food not take multiple turns to eat? I think that's a pretty good idea.

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Post Sunday, 10th July 2016, 07:20

Re: Keep eating? Y/N


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