The Tavern

Right now merfolk and octopodes can pick up items on deep water, presumably for flavor reasons. However, all species should be able to, because it is not a significant buff and it is inconvenient to have to lure monsters in order to avoid item destruction especially when using projectiles/fighting enemies that use projectiles. Flavor be damned!

A large part of this inconvenience could also be solved by having unlimited ammo or always-mulching ammo, but it would still be necessary to lure enemies onto dry tiles before killing them.

I hereby petition to remove all races, except for, Human. Sub races may include Scuba-Divers and Submariners.

An idea I had was that items don't get destroyed by deep water (if they still do?), and that any item in deep water could simply be picked up like normal if flying, ice form etc.

If the item is in deep water, it probably is on the bottom. I get swimmers being able to get it, not much for fliers and floaters.

Just let it wash up on shore, so I can stop kiting monsters out of deep water before I throw 1 of my 500 javelins at it. I might need that javelin later!

let the players swim in the deep water but make it so some your items fall out of your inventory while your swim and get swept away by currents

Sar wrote:let the players swim in the deep water but make it so some your items fall out of your inventory while your swim and get swept away by currents

As someone who plays brogue, I hate this idea.

I think a better version of the OP would be "disallow Mf/Op/Ice-formers from picking up items in deep water", a.k.a. "make deep water the same as lava"

Or at least give a warning for dropping items in deep water and lava. There is no reason for player to destroy items in 0.18+ and I have just checked, there is no warning in trunk.

tedric wrote:I think a better version of the OP would be "disallow Mf/Op/Ice-formers from picking up items in deep water", a.k.a. "make deep water the same as lava"

See, I feel the opposite way. Make deep water and lava into something more like shallow water and then remove flight.

I think dowan's "items wash up on shore" thing is a good idea for water, in the likely event that my idea doesn't get taken up. For lava, how about dropped items are expelled in an explosion?

remove liquids

Well, shallow water creates pretty interesting situations, where otherwise good terrain has a disadvantage, and allowing speed 10 monsters to catch up and pose a threat. Deep water and lava occasionally do too, when monsters can use terrain the player can't, like that horrible snake ending...

duvessa wrote:remove liquids

Turn potions into powders.

Mummy buff!

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:
duvessa wrote:remove liquids

Turn potions into powders.

You snort the white powder.
You feel extremely strange.
You feel dopey.
You feel an irresistible urge to shout.
Your body twists and deforms.

Add new unrand: Zora's flippers for sale in a special shop in shoals which spawns under a waterfall.

Most of the issues caused by items in deep water will be resolved when ammo always mulches, and that day is coming.

Lasty wrote: and that day is coming.

What a lovely day will be that day!
I also hope this time needles can be re factored good - and javelins and tohamkas lose their egos.

Lasty wrote:Most of the issues caused by items in deep water will be resolved when ammo always mulches, and that day is coming.

Flying/amphibious monsters that use items or leave useful corpses are still a problem for every character.

Fun fact, you can offer corpses that are under deep water to Fedhas, and I assume you get piety since you get the piety message.

crate wrote:Fun fact, you can offer corpses that are under deep water to Fedhas, and I assume you get piety since you get the piety message.

could you pray on deep water corpses back when that was a thing?

especially if items get washed to shore (but even if not) it would be better if you could see items that are under deep water. The visual clutter would be negligibly higher than if items are hidden, but there would be no extra mechanic (sometimes not being able to see items in LOS), you'd have chalk-outline indications of where monsters have died, painful reminders of the items you've lost, being able to tell how drowned bodies interact with necromancy, etc.

duvessa wrote:remove liquids

What other tile the has the properties of "can be fired through freely but cannot be walked through"?

Wahaha wrote:
duvessa wrote:remove liquids

What other tile the has the properties of "can be fired through freely but cannot be walked through"?

1. Liquids don't have that property, since flight exists.
2. Why is this property desirable?

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY FLY OVER BUSH

plants under fedhas

e: i'm wrong you can walk through them under fedhas as well

Arrhythmia wrote:
crate wrote:Fun fact, you can offer corpses that are under deep water to Fedhas, and I assume you get piety since you get the piety message.

could you pray on deep water corpses back when that was a thing?

Nope! Unless you were a race that could pick up items in deep water, in which case you could.

HardboiledGargoyle wrote:
Wahaha wrote:What other tile the has the properties of "can be fired through freely but cannot be walked through"?

BUSH

Sexy.

Make items seeable in deep water but not collectable unless you're amphibious.

There, a sort of roundabout way to buff Apporation.

yeah b/c whenever i find apportation i think "this spell needs a buff" and dont memorize it

I don't think I've ever used apportation, tbqh

it's probably often better to snag items from a ways away but that sounds sort of annoying

Shard1697 wrote:I don't think I've ever used apportation, tbqh

it's probably often better to snag items from a ways away but that sounds sort of annoying

I memorize it on everyone because with no spell skills, and armour off, it has like 55ish fail, so it can be used to get things I have absolutely no use for that are on top of tele traps, for example. Or that book that trog burns that has apportation in it.

Although once I did grab a brand weapon, and a pot, and some useless artifact from next to a stupid oklob once that I couldn't kill at that point.

Yermak likes apportation for speed runs, he believes he shaves off a bit of turns with it. So maybe you'll get like one less hell effect out of it by apporting all your loot. :p

I've seen a troll with only two large rocks use apportation a lot.

And of course the obvious uses that are pretty rare.

My favorite thing about apportation, though, is that it's fun. I wouldn't say that buffing in this way it would like make it overpowered, though.

Shard1697 wrote:I don't think I've ever used apportation, tbqh

it's probably often better to snag items from a ways away but that sounds sort of annoying

I always memorize it but never actually use it.

I suppose it's nice for ninjaing runes, if you're into that sort of thing.

HardboiledGargoyle wrote:ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY FLY OVER BUSH

oh my god thank you you are awesome i laughed so bloody hard

Alright, thanks to HBG here, I'm gonna go ahead and offer my thoughts.

As far as I'm concerned, different terrains with different effects are a Very Good Thing. This ranges from water to spiderwebs to, yes, bushes. I'd love to see more of it so that the player has more incentive to strategically use the area around them.

As far as the OP goes? I think it's fine that just swimming races (octopodes and merfolk) can get stuff from deep water; or non-breathing ones, like gargoyles. (biased gargoyle player alert)

I think it's in trunk or something that instead of dying for falling in deep water you just take drain now? So that's a thing you could use to retrieve if you desperately needed to?

EDIT: Oh yeah Apportation. Yes I approve. Never found a use for that bloody thing, though that's probably because I play kill-everything-melee.

The thing is, it's not that non-swimmers can't get a merfolk's items, they just have to do a little dance first to get them out of the deep water. Do you ever do the little dance with water monsters to get them into shallow water, so you can eat them after? Given that at least 90% of the situations in the game are non-dangerous, that means 90% of the time you have a foe in deep water it's actually optimal to lure it out, so you can access it's droppables. Tedious+optimal=bad.

Don't even get me started on shooting one of my infinite supply of arrows into the deep water...

dowan wrote:The thing is, it's not that non-swimmers can't get a merfolk's items, they just have to do a little dance first to get them out of the deep water.

Heh, in my current game I confused the minotaur in a Lab. Right after that I realized that it was next to deep water....

...and then I remembered that I was playing an Octopode :)

*splash*

dowan wrote:The thing is, it's not that non-swimmers can't get a merfolk's items, they just have to do a little dance first to get them out of the deep water. Do you ever do the little dance with water monsters to get them into shallow water, so you can eat them after? Given that at least 90% of the situations in the game are non-dangerous, that means 90% of the time you have a foe in deep water it's actually optimal to lure it out, so you can access it's droppables. Tedious+optimal=bad.

Don't even get me started on shooting one of my infinite supply of arrows into the deep water...

Shooting arrows into the water is still much better than shooting them into a bush and then having to sloooowly attack a plant to death to get it back.

Shtopit wrote:
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:
Wahaha wrote:What other tile the has the properties of "can be fired through freely but cannot be walked through"?

BUSH

Sexy.

The Tavern

Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tiles

Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tiles

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Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

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Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

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Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

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Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile

Re: Allow all characters to pick up items on deep water tile