The Tavern

first, powerd by death.

Pbd is all-time op. like a semi-makhleb. but Pbd is 2-tier mutation.

so, you can got Pbd even level 2.

in my korean community, some people try Pbd-scumming.

playing level 2~3, not Pbd? just suicide. and new game.

it very annoying,funless,harm the concept of demonspawn.

Pbd - level 2 berserker? you're winner!

Pbd - mahkleb, your invincible.

Pbd - qazlal, your noisy. but you never mind.

Pbd - okawaru, your true hero.

... and same other gods.

demonspawn is fun, but definite Pbd is not fun.

second, passive-freeze/damnation.

demonspawn have 2 ice-path and 2 fire-path mutation.

ice mail / passive freeze

ice mail extremly useful 2-tier mutation. AC+10 vs non-fire enemy

but passive freeze... not useful in 3-tiers.

AC ignore freeze damage, but useless late game. useful vs draconian only?

ignite blood / damntaion

ignite blood useful 2-tier mutation in mid-game, but useless vs non-blood enemy

and now, damnation is not a fire. no reason included to fire-path mutation.

i think ice/fire path mutation, enough just one.

my suggestion

- make Pbd 3-tier mutation, and sightly buff(extend regen duration)

Pbd's worth enough 3-tier

- remove passive-freeze, and mix to ice mail

passive-freeze is weakness 3-tier mutation. Pbd replace it.

ice mail(AC+10) → AC+5(melt immune), freeze enemy hits in melee(halve damage than passive-freeze)

- make damnation not fire-path mutation.

damnation 1 - damnation

damnation 2 - damnation burst

damnation 3 - rDamnation(50% chance ignore or 33% reduce?)

I actually just nerfed pbd. It's much weaker now. Give it a shot and let me know if you think it's still OP.

chequers wrote:I actually just nerfed pbd. It's much weaker now. Give it a shot and let me know if you think it's still OP.

just nerf Pbd? yeah, thats good. no more op, no more scumming.

At first I was like "rework one of the best species in the game? are you nuts?"

The topic title is a little misleading. I approve of the nerf though. How exactly was it nerfed? Regen significantly less or something?

I like the way you formatted the OP. It seemed kind of weird at first but it actually makes reading it a lot easier considering english is probably not your first language.

As for the topic, I agree PBD is insane, its arguably the best mutation in the game. Maxed out PBD regenerates like 11 HP per turn, its insane especially in zigs.

I also liked your reworking on damnation mutation, damnation from Ds is pretty bad as it stands right now and your idea is a pretty creative way of reworking it.

Lastly, I 100% agree with merging icemail and passive freeze, maybe buffing it up to a tier 3 mutation in plate of robustness(its already a regular mutation anyway).

From a metagame perspective PBD is one of the worst mutations because when you're fighting enemies 1 at a time it doesn't do anything (except prevent piety decay). So most of the time it's useless. Now from a real player perspective it is indeed good, because real players don't have infinite patience to fight everything 1 at a time and don't like to mash 5. But if the game is balanced for the optimal player™ then PBD is pretty bad. Except in abyss, pan and hells where it's very good.

I hope DS keep damnation because it's a really fun mutation.

Wahaha wrote:From a metagame perspective PBD is one of the worst mutations because when you're fighting enemies 1 at a time it doesn't do anything (except prevent piety decay). So most of the time it's useless. Now from a real player perspective it is indeed good, because real players don't have infinite patience to fight everything 1 at a time and don't like to mash 5. But if the game is balanced for the optimal player™ then PBD is pretty bad. Except in abyss, pan and hells where it's very good.

I hope DS keep damnation because it's a really fun mutation.

Even if you are fighting 1 at a time, depending on the opponent you can fight in a hallway and both gain the benefits of PBD for opponents while chaining them. I guess that's still suboptimal compared to pulling one at a time, but the mass regen of PBD is probably more powerful than the slightly increased risk of having five melee threats behind the melee threat you're fighting.

Ignite blood works on your own blood too, so when you notice you're standing in a cloud of flame, back up to make your non-bleeding enemies roast, too.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:At first I was like "rework one of the best species in the game? are you nuts?"

The topic title is a little misleading. I approve of the nerf though. How exactly was it nerfed? Regen significantly less or something?

hmm, divide Pbd's regen duration halve and limit regen gain.(maybe +7?)

useful keep fierce battle, comparative useless other situation.

Tiktacy wrote:I like the way you formatted the OP. It seemed kind of weird at first but it actually makes reading it a lot easier considering english is probably not your first language.

As for the topic, I agree PBD is insane, its arguably the best mutation in the game. Maxed out PBD regenerates like 11 HP per turn, its insane especially in zigs.

I also liked your reworking on damnation mutation, damnation from Ds is pretty bad as it stands right now and your idea is a pretty creative way of reworking it.

Lastly, I 100% agree with merging icemail and passive freeze, maybe buffing it up to a tier 3 mutation in plate of robustness(its already a regular mutation anyway).

exactly, robust is not demonic-mutation. Same as scale and body-mutation.

but random scale is fun, forced body-mutation give merit & demerit. it fun too.

i agree robust need some change.

Wahaha wrote:From a metagame perspective PBD is one of the worst mutations because when you're fighting enemies 1 at a time it doesn't do anything (except prevent piety decay). So most of the time it's useless. Now from a real player perspective it is indeed good, because real players don't have infinite patience to fight everything 1 at a time and don't like to mash 5. But if the game is balanced for the optimal player™ then PBD is pretty bad. Except in abyss, pan and hells where it's very good.

I hope DS keep damnation because it's a really fun mutation.

Pbd just 2-tier mutation. if you got Pbd, you get another powerful 3-tier mutation soon.

Pbd's merit is crazy.

Airwolf wrote:Ignite blood works on your own blood too, so when you notice you're standing in a cloud of flame, back up to make your non-bleeding enemies roast, too.

yeah, your right. but, player harder than enemy. check EV/SH/AC... finally, boom!

chequers wrote:I actually just nerfed pbd. It's much weaker now. Give it a shot and let me know if you think it's still OP.

As someone who has >90% of their games as Ds, You'll pay dearly for this!

KSK wrote:
Airwolf wrote:Ignite blood works on your own blood too, so when you notice you're standing in a cloud of flame, back up to make your non-bleeding enemies roast, too.

yeah, your right. but, player harder than enemy. check EV/SH/AC... finally, boom!

You have never found the artifact "Firestarter" when playing a Demonspawn with the Ignite Blood mutation, have you?

infinitevox wrote:
KSK wrote:
Airwolf wrote:Ignite blood works on your own blood too, so when you notice you're standing in a cloud of flame, back up to make your non-bleeding enemies roast, too.

yeah, your right. but, player harder than enemy. check EV/SH/AC... finally, boom!

You have never found the artifact "Firestarter" when playing a Demonspawn with the Ignite Blood mutation, have you?

i never seen firestarter in playing any mace-firgter.　even excluding demonspawn.

Definitely agreed on PBD, it's far and away the strongest DS mutation. I haven't gotten it since it was nerfed but I feel like even with a large nerf it still deserves to be a tier 3.

I also agree with you about icemail. Perhaps it could be rolled together with passive freeze(tier 1=rC+, tier 2=passive freeze, tier 3=icemail), alongside damnation being made a non-fire mutation branch, so there's 1 fire and 1 ice demonspawn mutation.

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