Octopode with Gozag Shop Drops

[PowerOfKaishin]

Playing a transmuter, it's not reasonable to expect Gozag to suddenly stop giving weapon shops, but he should know that I'm an octopode and stop spawning so many damned armour shops. They don't even have hats in them!

If playing an octopode of Gozag, instead of weapon and jewelry shops he should, in his random selection, have an option for "Wizard's Jewelry and Apparel" which sells hats and jewelry. Barring that, Gozag should at least be much more weighted towards offering jewelry shops if playing an Op.

It is beyond frustrating generating shops from him only to see that I have to pick "Antique Armour" and pray to god there's a hat in it instead of generating a jewelry shop, which Op desperately needs. Gozag has a host of useful abilities, but the idea behind his design is to generate lots and lots of blingage for characters that worship him and that's not happening right now as an Op.

[TeshiAlair]

Bouncing off of that, it could be cool to have unique shop types with him.

Maybe "Arms and Armour", "Apparel", and "Items of Power" (wands and books)

With each shop, you'd have a smaller selection of items of that type, but more flexibility

[dynast]

Having a god with the potential to give you anything is not enough, apparently.

[dpeg]

This one goes to me, eh?

I believe the idea of Gozag providing items in the form of shops is alright. (Shops are the standard use of gold in the game, it's an established mechanic and easily searchable.) I am saying this because Gozag could e.g. also provide a temporary stock from which you can buy just once.

However, it is not so clear to me how to create those shops. Here are some options:
(a) ability produces random shop
(b) players chooses shop type a la acquirement
(c) player selects shop type from a random, short list

I opted for (c) because I think (a) is really aggravating, and (c) sometimes forces you to out of your comfort zone. This is increased by prices: if your desired shop (say jewellery) is really expensive, but there's a cheap scroll shop next to it, perhaps you reconsider (I sometimes do). If we stick to status quo, (c), then there are further options:

(c1) shops only offer usable items
(c2) weight shop type chance by species (i.e. armour and jewellery slots)

I know what it's like: my OpVM^G was desperate for ring shops like everybody else

[sanka]

It's probably won't be implemented, but I may worship Gozag if she would provide a flickering bazaar on every floor (it's enough if in every such bazaar there is only one, random shop - it could be a flickering shop). I like the incentive to find the shop before it disappears Gozag my announce not just the shop, but its type also.

[adozu]

clearly gozag would know the benefit of e-commerce

give it an ability "enter shop" that lets you visit one randomly generated shop as many times as you want from wherever you want
then change the current "create shop" ability into "reshuffle shop" which would change the items listed in the first ability, increasing in price with each use
don't give the shops any item that your character can't use (a la acquirement)

for orders above 35g shipping is free

[dpeg]

sanka: Gozag & bazaars has been brought up. What you want is arguably too much: not only would it completely transform Gozag games (every new level starts with a portal vault hunt), but it'd also make taking on Gozag later (e.g. god switch) much less attractive.

Not sure if you know but the original shop placement was on a deeper level. I liked this mechanic because it encourages you to go deeper in search for your shops, but nobody else did and it was replaced with the current, much simpler version.

What if every Merchant use had a guaranteed item "bazaar" on the list? (That would produce a flickering bazaar on the next virgin level.)

[sanka]

Well, I always thought that (completely) transforming games is a good purpose for a god. Also, I have never thought that encouraging switching later to a God is a design concern - who cares?

I think that in current gozag only the potion petition is a somewhat interesting ability, and it is a little bit randomly connected to gold. I think that race for shops would be a much better, and much more unique iconic ability. There will be a lot of gold related decision - you can only by from the shop once! The shop on the next level may have something much more useful.

[dpeg]

sanka: You should give Bribe a try. It really matters on branch ends.

[sanka]

I do not talk about their power level, just how interesting are they to me. Bribe is ok tough, but somehow I do not find it enough to justify a god (and it does not seem to be an ability really related to gold - the only usage of gold outside of gozag are shops, so the other abilites seem to be a little bit arbitrarily connected to gold).

[dpeg]

sanka: You have no idea how often I got the suggestion that the gold god should allow bribing individual monsters. Sure, the only function of gold in the game (barring gods) is shopping. But with Gozag, I make a connection to how gold works in the real world.

[sanka]

I also would not like individual bribing. My problem with both bribing and potion petition that they do not seem unique enough - there are other ways to get allies or neutral monsters, or to have potion effects (altough it is more interesting). But there are no god wich really encourages you to rush to spend your money all the time! 10% discount, just now! (Also I have never petitioned for potions IRL, neither bribed anyone, so maybe the flavour is not as good for me?)

[PowerOfKaishin]

I also would not like individual bribing. My problem with both bribing and potion petition that they do not seem unique enough - there are other ways to get allies or neutral monsters, or to have potion effects (altough it is more interesting). But there are no god wich really encourages you to rush to spend your money all the time! 10% discount, just now! (Also I have never petitioned for potions IRL, neither bribed anyone, so maybe the flavour is not as good for me?)

Potion Petition lets you chug 4 or 5 potions in 10 auts instead of 50. When there's a swarm of killer bees on your ass, you don't have time to do the latter.
Bribe Branch can turn Orbs of Fire into friendlies. Tell me what else can do that? Because those things have infinite MR.

Honestly if Gozag could just generate only shops with items that the player can use, that would be great. It would also be amazing if the shops could be weighted for your species.

Mummies should never be offered a distillery. Draconians should never see body armour in their shops. Naga and Centaurs should be more likely to see bardings via either removal of shoes or just every shoe generation being replaced by a barding.

Op should always receive armour shops with nothing but hats and be far more likely to be offered jewelry than most, because let's be real: if you're an Op of Gozag, it's almost always because you want rings and amulets and not for his other abilities.

[TeshiAlair]

I think the dissatisfaction from Gozag shops comes from the fact that you pay an upfront cost with unreliable outcome. Crawl in almost all other cases has reliable action -> effect flow, and it is usually proportional to the cost. When you get a Ru sacrifice, you know what that sacrifice does, and what you gain from it. With more random gods such as Jiv and Xom, you are signing up for the randomness, and the cost isn't fixed per se. With Gozag, you have a very distinct cost and a very random outcome.

What if instead of shop summoning you could petition for items? So you pick an acquirement category, and he offers you 3-4 items from that category that you can buy from him.

[chequers]

Agree that shops are very random. However giving eg Octopode armour shops only hats would mean Octopode will only ever need one armour shop all game long to get a great artifact.

[PowerOfKaishin]

That's the point. Op is busy generating more jewelry than other races to make up for it

[Rast]

sanka: Gozag & bazaars has been brought up. What you want is arguably too much: not only would it completely transform Gozag games (every new level starts with a portal vault hunt), but it'd also make taking on Gozag later (e.g. god switch) much less attractive.

I'd be OK with both of those.

[dracos369]

It would also be amazing if the shops could be weighted for your species.

Just that. Nothing Else. Don't change the content of shops. It doesen't even need to be dramatic, since there is always a selection.

Also, just reminding everyone that shield are sold in the armour shops ant THAT is the reason I open armour shops with my Op^Gozag, not some 2AC worth hat.

[dynast]

What an ideology, really.

Shop funding is meant as a gamble, so that the player may weight his options instead of shop spamming, but lets pretend it isnt, what next? Gozag shouldnt offer book shops if you dont have spells, except when you might want to learn some spells and then the books on the shops should have spells of said school you want to branch into. Gozag shouldnt offer gadget shops if you dont train evo, no weapon shops if you dont train weapons, ranged weapon/ammo shops if you are a ranger. Basically make shop funding be food/potion/scroll/"shop that you want".

Exagerations aside, the main idea here is to have shop funding be equally good to every species and im sorry but thats jsut not possible because of species like podes, spriggans, draconians or ogres. A jewelry shop is just too good for a pode, having it generate more often for them is not fair. The same way its not fair that a ogre armor shop be filled with dragon armor, or a draconian armor shop be filled with auxiliar slots.

[PowerOfKaishin]

^ I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have better gozags. Nobody complains that DEBe is a bad combination.

[Hellmonk]

^ I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have better gozags. Nobody complains that DEBe is a bad combination.

I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with not giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have worse gozags. Nobody complains that OpTm is a bad combination.

[crate]

amusingly, i think debe is probably stronger than optm

[PowerOfKaishin]

^ I would disagree but I can see why you would say that.

^ I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have better gozags. Nobody complains that DEBe is a bad combination.

I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with not giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have worse gozags. Nobody complains that OpTm is a bad combination.

Because games are supposed to be fun and this needless frustration is not fun. Put up a stronger argument than that or take your silly mocking sarcasm elsewhere.

[duvessa]

^ I would disagree but I can see why you would say that.

^ I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have better gozags. Nobody complains that DEBe is a bad combination.

I fail to see the problem. What's wrong with not giving op more jewelry shops? This game isn't a competition. It's okay for some characters to have worse gozags. Nobody complains that OpTm is a bad combination.

Because games are supposed to be fun and this needless frustration is not fun. Put up a stronger argument than that or take your silly mocking sarcasm elsewhere.

Games are supposed to be fun and an unbalanced god is not fun. Put up a stronger argument than that or take your silly bad argument elsewhere.

[PowerOfKaishin]

What, exactly, is so unbalanced about my proposal?

[Sar]

Nobody complains that OpTm is a bad combination.

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